Youtube Apologetics

[cdowis]

CRITIC

"When the brethren have spoken, the thinking has been done"

RESPONSE

Brigham Young taught us

What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually.  JD IX:150.

Some may say, "Brethren, you who lead the Church, we have all confidence in you, we are not in the least afraid but what everything will go right under your superintendence; all the business matters will be transacted right; and if brother Brigham is satisfied with it, I am." I do not wish any Latter-day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied.  JD III:45.

Joseph Smith, I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.

Edited April 5, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

CRITIC

The plates were too heavy to carry, over 150 pounds

RESPONSE

Here is what several witnesses said about the weight of the plates "William Smith, a brother of the Prophet who had handled and hefted the plates in a pillowcase, claimed on several occasions that the set of plates weighed about sixty pounds,7 as did Willard Chase,8 while Martin Harris said that they weighed forty to fifty pounds.9 William Smith added that the plates were “a mixture of gold and copper.” http://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1110&index=81

Also, Emma said the plates were covered and sitting on a table, and she was able to move them around in order to dust.

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Book of Abraham (revised)

RESPONSE

Kerry Muhlestein,. PhD in Egyptology at UCLA talks about recent research on the Book of Abraham.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRzU6C5Wb8U
https://youtu.be/gCH529IgDrY
https://youtu.be/6EHKY1NUmcg?t=1m10s
He has a playlist of 15 videos on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRzU6C5Wb8U

Dr. Muhlestein's credentials ==
PhD in Egyptology at UCLA
Chairman of a national committee for the American Research Center in Egypt and serves on their Research Supporting Member Council.
He has also served on a committee for the Society for the Study of Egyptian Antiquities, and currently serves on their Board of Trustees and as a Vice President of the organization.

Senior Fellow of the William F. Albright Institute for Archaeological Research.

Participating with the International Association of Egyptologists, and has worked with Educational Testing Services on their AP World History test. He gave a presentation at the international Egyptological conference in Moscow held in the fall of 2009.

Published articles in professional journals including the UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology.
A sampling of Dr. Muhlestein’s other Egyptological work includes: “Binding with Heraldic Plants,” in Proceedings of the Ninth International Congress of Egyptologists, 2 vols., ed. Jean-Claude Goyon and Christine Cardin (Leuven: Uitgeverij Peeters en Department Oosterse Studies, 2007), 1335–41; “Empty Threats? How Egyptians’ Self-Ontology Affect the Way We Read Many Texts,” JSSEA 34 (2007): 115–30; “Execration Ritual,” in UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology, ed. Jacco Dieleman and Willeke Wendrich (Los Angeles, Cali.: UCLA, 2008), online athttp://digital2.library.ucla.edu/viewItem.do?ark=21198/zz000s3mqr (Accessed February 27, 2013); “Royal Executions: Evidence Bearing on the Subject of Sanctioned Killing in the Middle Kingdom,” in The Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient, 51/2 (2008): 181–208; “Teaching Egyptian History: Some Discipline-Specific Pedagogical Notes,” in The Journal of Egyptian History, 2/1–2 (2009): 173–231.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

REVISED

CRITIC
The Bible teaches blah blah blah

RESPONSE
Let's assume that the Bible is inerrant. But that still leaves a problem.
Where do you find an inerrant INTERPRETATION of the Bible? Scholars disagree among themselves even on basic salvation doctrines -- e.g. is baptism a requirement for salvation, works vs faith, "once saved always saved", free will, etc They all have studied the Bible intensively, got their PhD from the universities and cannot agree among themselves on what the Bible teaches.
I do not say that the scriptures are false, but you cannot give me the inerrant interpretation of those scriptures.
The historic Christian church replaced the apostles and prophets with theologians and philosophers.
But the Lord called a prophet in these last days day to restore the Gospel and the church lead by apostles and prophets (see Eph 4:11-14).
I invite you to visit the local church and see for yourself.

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Why do you claim to be Christians

RESPONSE

Christ has restored the gospel and His church here on the earth, and is the head of the church. The Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ.

Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon saw a vision of Christ and testified

22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! 23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father— 24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Asking questions about the Fall of Adam -- "Ye shall be as gods", etc

RESPONSE

1. See Genesis 3:22

2.  You are asking a questions that require an understanding of the Atonement of Christ, and the pivotal role that the Fall of Adam plays in the Plan of Salvation. That particular topic goes beyond the scope of this forum. I suggest that you speak with the missionaries who would be able to discuss this with you.
 

I suggest that you first be willing temporarily to put aside everything that you have been taught about the Fall of Adam and keep an open mind.
Anyway, you might try to gain some understanding by reading 2 Nephi chapters two and nine in the Book of Mormon, but I strongly suggest that a discussion with the missionaries would be very helpful.

Edited May 19, 2016 by cdowis

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Mormons believe in a text callled "The Book of Mormon" which no other sects of Christianity support. It is considered a heretical book, added centuries after the Biblical canon was formalised.

RESPONSE

FACT Check:

The New Testament “was added centuries after the Hebrew (Old Testament) canon was formalised.” We accept all of the Word of God, including the Bible and modern revelation.

There are those who claim that His Word is like a buffet, you only have to partake of those things that you want, and ignore the rest.

[cdowis]

CRITIC

How do Christians view Mormons.  Is it just another sect  -- false prophets, etc

RESPONSE

Now, in the Bible Paul teaches us Eph 4 [11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
[13] **Till we all come in the unity of the faith** and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The historic Christian church has replaced the apostles and prophets with theologians and philosophers -- the modern day Pharasees. They disagree among themselves even on basic salvation doctrines, such as the necessity for baptism, faith vs works, etc.

Clearly we do not have that unity of faith, and we see Christians carried away with every wind of doctrine. “One Lord, one faith, one baptism” simply does not exist in today’s world.  The Pharasees have taken over the churches.
Christ called a prophet in our day to restore the Gospel which had been lost, and restored His church with living apostles and prophets, as promised by Paul.

Edited February 13, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Updated version of previous post

CRITIC

Why can you believe in Mormonism when there no archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon, etc

RESPONSE

The answer is found in the Bible.

Christ said to Peter
Matt 16 [15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.  [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Christ did NOT say, “Blessed art thou because you have studied archaeology, you have debated with the scribes and Pharasees about the scriptures, and have come to the logical conclusion that I am the Christ.”

Like Peter, God has promised to give us a personal witness of the truth of the Book of Mormon, and that Joseph Smith was a prophet. What greater witness can there be?

Blessed are those who have sought the Lord in prayerful study and meditation.

Edited May 29, 2016 by cdowis

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Mormons have secrets

RESPONSE

In Acts 1:3 we read that, after the resurrection, Christ taught the disciples for forty days, teaching them the things “pertaining to the kingdom of God”. But we do not have a record of what He said. Forty days! Did He repeat the Sermon on the Mount 10,000 times?

Earlier, He told the disciples not to cast their pearls before swine (the unbelievers).

Certain doctrines are very briefly mentioned in the Bible — baptism for the dead (Paul), three kingdoms of glory (Paul), preaching the gospel to the dead (Peter), etc.

There are those who call these “secrets”, but Christ said, “it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.” They are indeed sacred, and Christ has commanded us to keep them from the world.

[cdowis]

CRITIC

God ordered genocide.

RESPONSE

And have you given any thought why? Considering that He knows and sees things that you do not, is it possible that He knows something that you don't.
Perhaps there is a piece of the puzzle that eludes but you don't bother to try to find it, because "God ordered genocide" is all that you care to know.

Hint: sometimes it is necessary to amputate a leg to save a person's life. "Oh, dear, he will be a cripple for the rest of his life. moan....groan... What a terrible thing."
"Yeah, but at least he is still alive."

Give it some thought and perhaps you will figure it out.

Edited June 6, 2016 by cdowis

[cdowis]

CRITIC

I’m perfectly comfortable with gods who stay in the spiritual realm and not part of the physical realm.

RESPONSE

Do you feel comfortable with the realm of entangled particles, “spooky interaction at a distance”, or quantum mechanics. It has rules and laws which are outside our experience of our physical realm.

God did not create the natural laws, but uses them to do His work. He is bound by those laws. Now, some of those laws are presently unknown to the scientists,similar to the mechanics of how those spooky particles are able to interact at intergalactic distances in real time.

The spiritual realm is part of our physical world, just as the realm of quantum physics. In addition to physical laws, it has other laws which are called “faith”, and “priesthood authority”. Scientists are unable directly able to detect the action of these laws at the present time. (Hint” see also dark matter and dark energy)

[cdowis]

Revised

CRITIC

God is spirit

RESPONSE

The Bible also says that Jesus is a door, a vine, a path, water spring, a loaf of bread, He is truth, and, yes, He is spirit.

Christ, in His physical body, told the disciples, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father."

He said nothing about a "one substance entity".

 

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Mormons believe that everyone needs permission from Joseph Smith to get into heaven.

RESPONSE (revised)

Let’s see what Christ said to His Twelve apostles

Matt 19 [28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22 [30] That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Regarding the keys and authority of the prophet of the church, Christ told Peter
Matt [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Joseph Smith is the head of this dispensation, and BY has confirmed that he will have the same authority and responsibility as Peter and the Twelve Apostles in Christ’s time.

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Atheist trash talking religion, God, Christianity, etc

RESPONSE

 

Typical of a trash talking godless atheist. He prefers to keep God confined to the pages of a "magical" book, a book written thousands of years ago, rather than appearing to a prophet in our day

For him, anything related to deity and spirituality is just superstition.

Edited June 18, 2016 by cdowis

[LeSellers]

CRITIC

The Mormons are just like the Muslims: They have other scriptures and have prophets not in the Bible

RESPONSE

Actually, it's creedal Christianity that's like the Muslims: they listen only to dead prophets and have schools set up to interpret the words of the scriptures. In the Bible, especially when the texts of the Bible were written, there were living prophets who delivered that word. Keeping in mind that many people could not even read or did not have access to the scriptures, the living prophets were the primary means of hearing the word of the Lord.

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Mormonism is a Satanic cult.

RESPONSE

PBS documentary on Mormon cult behaviour. See how it affects not only Mormons, but also many thousands of nonMormons as well. http://player.pbs.org/viralplayer/2365789090/

Edited August 5, 2016 by cdowis

[cdowis]

CRITIC

"The existence of God cannot be tested."

RESPONSE
Actually you mean you have no interest in finding out. Tell me, what would you do if God proved himself to you -- would you worship him, keep his laws, repent of your sins. Would you devote your life to Him?

You are the one being tested, my friend. There is a way to find out, but I don't think you really want to find out. It would demand a very high price, so you will just keep living the life you have now.

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by cdowis

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Are Mormons Christian?

RESPONSE

I think it would be useful to introduce the term “historic Christian”, which denotes Christianity at the time of the Council of Nicea where the doctrine of the “one substance” Trinity was adopted into the Nicene Creed. This Creed is accepted by all “historic Christians”, and, for many, defines what it means to be a Christian.

The LDS church does not accept this doctrine, so indeed is not a historic Christian church, but it accepts Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour, as the Son of God, and the only path back to the Father. The name of the church declares it, and each week we partake of the sacrament (Lord’s Supper or Communion) to renew our covenant to take His name upon us.

So, we are indeed Christian, but not within the context of historic Christianity.

[cdowis]

CRITIC

What do you think of the CES letter

RESPONSE

 

Let me speak from personal experience. When I joined the church, I received a personal witness from the Lord that the Book of Mormon was the word of God, and that God called Joseph Smith as a prophet.

Now I have spent my entire life in the church confronting those same questions that Jeremy was asking, but with that one difference. I saw it as a challenge, a puzzle, as a problem with a reasonable solution. Clearly he saw those very same questions as proof that his doubts were legitimate.

I remember when the Salamander Letter was published and declared to be the “end of Mormonism.” I didn’t have an answer, but I still knew the church was true, so I just put on my “shelf of disbelief” and waited. Many left the church. Then one day it was proven in a court of law that this was a forgery, a fake, written by a murderer in a clever attempt to destroy the church and make money.

What do you think — did all those people then came back to the church? Did they humbly admit that the whole thing was a mistake?

Each of these items in his letter, for me, falls into these categories:

1. It is based on ignorance. He pretends, for example, to find contradictions in LDS doctrine (e.g. the Godhead) in his ignorance of church doctrine and the scriptures. I have read the Book of Mormon over 45 times, and the Bible many times (including the Greek). It is clear that he did not pay the price to study and understand what we actually believe.
2. Factual inaccuracies, logical fallacies, false assumptions, and the biased interpretation of historical events.
   Let’s take one specific example. Joseph Smith was married to multiple women, some of whom were still married to other men. Jeremy gives us the shocking detail that there were 11 of them, but “forgets” to tell the reader one small detail. In the LDS church there are both “temporal marriage” and “spiritual wife (sealing)”. 
   Jeremy apparently does not concern himself with this detail, that a sealed wife is a bond for the NEXT LIFE (as opposed to the temporal marriage). There is no evidence of any physical intimacy with the spirit or sealed wives. Extensive DNA research shows no offspring from any of these relationships.
3. Yes, there unanswered questions. The Book of Abraham translation is still an unsolved puzzle, but more evidence, data, and research is bringing us closer, perhaps not to the translation process, but the book itself contains historical information which was virtually unknown at the time it was published regarding ancient history.
   The claim that the Book of Mormon has “absolutely no archaeological evidence” is simply untrue.
   There are unsolved questions in science — biology, evolution, astronomy, etc. We know that the principles in science are sound, so I see it as matter of patience, waiting for the resolution of these issues.
4. And there is the “You gotta be kidding” factor of the seer stone, gold plates, angels appearing in our day. The old atheist argument, ”If I were god, this is what I would do. And your god doesn’t make sense.”
   
   Basically he has placed the burden on his friends, church leaders, everybody else to resolve his doubts. I took that responsibility upon myself.

[LeSellers]

1 hour ago, cdowis said:

I have spent my entire life in the church confronting those same questions that Jeremy was asking

Who's Jeremy and what is the "CES Letter"?

Lehi

[cdowis]

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

Who's Jeremy and what is the "CES Letter"?

Lehi

http://en.fairmormon.org/Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Letter_to_a_CES_Director

[LeSellers]

5 minutes ago, cdowis said:

1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

Who's Jeremy and what is the "CES Letter"?

http://en.fairmormon.org/Criticism_of_Mormonism/Online_documents/Letter_to_a_CES_Director

Thanks.

Lehi

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Mormons believe that other churches are abominable, etc

RESPONSE

Here are some things that the Prophet Joseph Smith said concerning other religions

if it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a "Mormon," I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves. It is a love of liberty which inspires my soul — civil and religious liberty to the whole of the human race.

—Joseph Smith, 1843

Be it ordained by the City Council of the City of Nauvoo, that the Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, Latter-day Saints, Quakers, Episcopals, Universalists, Unitarians, Mohammedans [Muslims], and all other religious sects and denominations whatever, shall have free toleration, and equal privileges in this city ...

—Ordinance in Relation to Religious Societies, City of Nauvoo, [Illinois] headquarters of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, March 1, 1841

[LeSellers]

3 hours ago, cdowis said:

CRITIC

Mormons believe that other churches are abominable, etc

Just another misreading of our scripture. Joseph Smith — History does not say "that other churches are abominable". It says that their creeds are an abomination in His sight. Further, it does not say that all Christians (a misreading of "those professors") are all corrupt. It says that those professors were corrupt. "Those" pointing to the specific professors Joseph had mentioned earlier, the ones holding the camp meetings in 1819 and earlier.

Antis always fabricate, distort, twist, lie, and shade the truth. Otherwise, they'd have no argument at all.

Lehi

Edited August 3, 2016 by LeSellers