Church re-evaluating Scouting Program


pam
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Incidentally--they did.  I can't find official numbers, but their Facebook page seems to have just a hair over one half of one percent the number of Facebook "likes" that the BSA's Facebook page does.

un-surprisingly it follows that homosexuals are only a small percent of the total population (around 1% depending on the polling source) and only a fraction of that would likely be interested in a scouting program. Not even considering heterosexuals who would have decided to support such a program for political, or differing 'moral' beliefs.

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And yet we see those getting signed off after a single Saturday session sometimes.  I know when I was earning them, our merit badge workshops were 3-4 Saturdays, with some homework mixed in.  Some can be done in a single intensive session, like electronics, nuclear science, (counselor was a safety officer at a nuclear power plant and it was an all day field trip to the plant and the radiology department of a nearby hospital) and others not on the Eagle requirements list, but plenty of the big ones require a bare minimum of 8-12 hours of focused effort.

 

 

As I said above, it has become "everyone is a winner because we're going to bend the rules until that happens."  (And I'm not claiming this is unique to LDS Scouting; there are plenty of non-LDS troops that do the same.)  It took me 2-3 tries to get some of the required merit badges, and I was far from unique in the troop and council for that: we had one kid on his 6th try for the swimming badge at summer camp.  When everybody's getting every badge they try for, and doing it in 1-2 days, it's a bit hard to believe that all requirements are being properly met.  That's not teaching the integrity that should be a part of YM and Scouting, but unfortunately, it's what the program has become.

I agree-I have seen this in every single ward I have been in for the past 20 yrs or so. Granted the level of fudging varies, it is not at all unusual and people are very open about it. I counseled for several merit badges and after a couple years no one called me any more. Word go out that I actually made them do all requirements to standard and they were not having any of that.

I also helped out with a few MB clinics at the stake level and it was so ridiculous there that I just called the local BSA and told them to cancel all my MBs, take my name off and remove me from an ASST scoutmaster position. I was released very shortly after that.

My experience with LDS troops is they are second rate, lack general integrity and the leadership is rarely dedicated to even running things at the bare minimum standard. I have seen some good ones...really good ones but the regular troops outside the church usually make ours look like we dont even bother trying.

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As Vort pointed out "making do" changes at 18.  After 18 it flips dramatically in favor of the women.  Would you be equally vocal about bring the RS down to the Priesthood levels of activities? Or do you some how justify to yourself that Women should have more activities then Men?

We need to make missions MANDATORY for the girls...just like the boys. I do agree that the girls have much less hoopla in their program, but again that is because they get to choose what they do and that is what the choose to do. Granted there is no formal award like the eagle and that is a dis service.

 

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In this discussion, I think we are missing one thing -- "active gay" indicates a possible advocate for the gay lifestyle.  I don't think it is unreasonable for me to be concerned, not so much about molestation, but having an "active gay" leader to influence my son's view that it is an acceptable lifestyle.

 

Perhaps not even overtly, but through such phrases as "my husband", etc.

Edited by cdowis
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Mission service is a priesthood responsibility. What would be the explanation for mandatory missions for girls?

The explanation is IF the YW truly want all the programs (or equivalent) the boys have, the awards, campouts, the trips, etc they can have all the boys have and be commanded to go on a mission too- just like the boys. If they dont, they will be unfitting to be much of a wife...Kind of how in many ways lack of serving a mission makes a second class citizen out of a young man.

Treated just like the boys and all the bells and whistles too.

Most of the boys think scouting stinks anyway once they get to be about 14. Many of our scouts are scared to get dirty and so are many of their priesthood leaders. 

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Most of the boys think scouting stinks anyway once they get to be about 14.

 

That's what an overly sanitized and isolated program will get you.  Half the fun of Scouting for me was going to regular camps with other troops, meeting people with different beliefs, skillsets, and backgrounds.

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That's what an overly sanitized and isolated program will get you.  Half the fun of Scouting for me was going to regular camps with other troops, meeting people with different beliefs, skillsets, and backgrounds.

That's what a scout troop that is overly focused on rank advancement without learning the actual skills, that isn't run by the boy's, does to a program.... :disenchanted:

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 Aren't missions mandatory for girls? I thought all 18 year olds had to serve them? 

(Convert here, I ask in ignorance, nothing else) 

 

No.  From Pres. Monson at the October 2012 Conference:

 

 

We affirm that missionary work is a priesthood duty—and we encourage all young men who are worthy and who are physically able and mentally capable to respond to the call to serve. Many young women also serve, but they are not under the same mandate to serve as are the young men. We assure the young sisters of the Church, however, that they make a valuable contribution as missionaries, and we welcome their service.

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 Aren't missions mandatory for girls? I thought all 18 year olds had to serve them? 

(Convert here, I ask in ignorance, nothing else) 

 

 

My personal belief as to why missions aren't mandatory for women is because they aren't as bone headed as the men when it comes to spirituality.

Same reason for why women serve 18 months not 24 months.  It takes Elders 24 months to learn what the sisters can in 18 months.

 

Sorry if this seems emasculating, but I've got to be honest.

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http://www.scouting.org/filestore/intl/pdf/130-118_WB.pdf

 

This is where we are going to see a major influx of openly gay adult scout leaders / counselors:.......if it happens.

How awesome would it be if you were gay and 29 yrs old and had summer access to 18 year old boys?

Just saying cuz I know if I was a single guy and would be living with a bunch of 18-30 year old girls in a cabin at a scout camp I'd be there every summer....If I was so inclined to live that life. Perfect for a young gay school teacher who has the summer off. Never mind the juvenile scouts...18 year old young men and they are legal. 

Dont know if this will happen, but I bet within five years it will be well known scout summer camps will be the place to work in the summer and be able to network with other like-minded gays. They have websites for this kind of thing.

 

Edited by paracaidista508
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My personal belief as to why missions aren't mandatory for women is because they aren't as bone headed as the men when it comes to spirituality.

Same reason for why women serve 18 months not 24 months.  It takes Elders 24 months to learn what the sisters can in 18 months.

 

Sorry if this seems emasculating, but I've got to be honest.

So what the church is doing is sending its dumbest boneheaded kids to go out and spread the gospel, but the competent ones we keep at home??? Doesnt sound like the best way to win at this game...send in the second and third stringers?

I agree- boys are boneheaded though.

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Guest MormonGator

My personal belief as to why missions aren't mandatory for women is because they aren't as bone headed as the men when it comes to spirituality.

Same reason for why women serve 18 months not 24 months.  It takes Elders 24 months to learn what the sisters can in 18 months.

 

Sorry if this seems emasculating, but I've got to be honest.

Doesn't seem emasculating to me at all. Thanks for the info!  

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My personal belief as to why missions aren't mandatory for women is because they aren't as bone headed as the men when it comes to spirituality.

 

You need to start doing the Crocodile Dundee check more often, because I'm pretty sure you've never met an actual woman if you think that.

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So what the church is doing is sending its dumbest boneheaded kids to go out and spread the gospel, but the competent ones we keep at home??? Doesnt sound like the best way to win at this game...send in the second and third stringers?

I agree- boys are boneheaded though.

You are exactly right.  That is precisely how it works.

Alma said this:

 

 "Now ye may suppose that this is foolishness in me; but behold I say unto you, that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass; and small means in many instances doth confound the wise.

 And the Lord God doth work by means to bring about his great and eternal purposes; and by very small means the Lord doth confound the wise and bringeth about the salvation of many souls."

 

This is what God said about it:

 

 "13 Wherefore, I call upon the weak things of the world, those who are unlearned and despised, to thresh the nations by the power of my Spirit;

 14 And their arm shall be my arm, and I will be their shield and their buckler; and I will gird up their loins, and they shall fight manfully for me; and their enemies shall be under their feet; and I will let fall the sword in their behalf, and by the fire of mine indignation will I preserve them.

 15 And the poor and the meek shall have the gospel preached unto them, and they shall be looking forth for the time of my coming, for it is nigh at hand—"

 

Also....

 

 

"19 The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh—

 20 But that every man might speak in the name of God the Lord, even the Savior of the world;

 21 That faith also might increase in the earth;

 22 That mine everlasting covenant might be established;

 23 That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers.

 24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding."

 

And Paul said this.....

 

"26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"

 

 

Nobody expected the Messiah to be born in a barn.  Nobody expected a 14 year old would be called to be a prophet.  Nobody expects naive, inexperienced, and oftimes ignorant young men and women to travel to the corners of the earth and establish the Gospel, but it is those traits of innocence that make them the best qualified....and it works, has worked, and will continue to work.  It does not work anywhere else because any other work is not the Lord's work.  If one used this approach in the business world, one would certainly fail and be laughed at.  

...and yes, I confess that I was a bone-head when I was a missionary.  I bet some people think I am still a bone-head and I will not confirm or deny their claims.  :-)

Edited by Str8Shooter
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