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classylady

Church releases picture of seer-stone

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The news reports are now popping up on Facebook.  There's quite a lot of negative comments under the news reports.

Negative when they couldn't see it, negative when they can see it. so what else is new in the world of the anti's?  :rolleyes:

Edited by Average Joe

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The news reports are now popping up on Facebook.  There's quite a lot of negative comments under the news reports.

 

This is one of my favorites thus far regarding the negativity surrounding this release, "The LDS church is full of lies. Based and founded on lies. This is just another example. Not to mention, the hypocrisy of the so called church's leadership is laughable. Funny how JS claimed to have founded the basis of the LDS church, but there was a guy in upstate NY who wrote a book about the theory two years prior. He challenged JS on the BOM and reportedly vanished with two of JS goons. It's 2015, how can people really believe things like women can't hold the priesthood or their stance on rape and abortion. It's a shame the LDS church even exists. A bunch of rich white men telling people what to do........... Just saying." (emphasis added)

 

Well, now I think I have heard everything, then again, something new will be said about Joseph Smith.  Joseph Smith had "goons" that did some dirty work for him when he needed to "vanish" someone.  Well, there is nothing like opening a speech with how an entity "lies" and then promulgate heresay.  Kettle meet pot.

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I thought Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummin stones to aid him in the translation of the Book of Mormon?  Did he use this seer stone in connection with the translation of the Book of Mormon?

 

Edit:  I did some research on the subject.  Apparently Joseph Smith would use the Urim and Thummin stones and sometimes the seer stone alone in translation of the Book of Mormon.  Read the article here:

 

https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng

Edited by Still_Small_Voice

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I thought Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummin stones to aid him in the translation of the Book of Mormon?  Did he use this seer stone in connection with the translation of the Book of Mormon?

 

Edit:  I did some research on the subject.  Apparently Joseph Smith would use the Urim and Thummin stones and sometimes the seer stone alone in translation of the Book of Mormon.  Read the article here:

 

https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng

 

Based on stuff I have read over the years, it looks to me like the Latter-day Saints of the early Restoration used the term "Urim and Thummim" synonymously with "seerstone".

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There are those who suggest that although Joseph Smith got the plates back after the Martin Harris brouhaha, he never did get the Urim and Thummim back. Thus, under this theory, all of the text we have now would have been revealed via the Chase seer stone.

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I thought Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummin stones to aid him in the translation of the Book of Mormon?  Did he use this seer stone in connection with the translation of the Book of Mormon?

 

 

This is why there are negative comments, those who grew up in the church were never taught about a "seer" stone. Not in primary, and not as adults, and not in our current curriculum (to my knowledge). So if people are reacting negatively I get it.

Edit:  I did some research on the subject.  Apparently Joseph Smith would use the Urim and Thummin stones and sometimes the seer stone alone in translation of the Book of Mormon.  Read the article here:

 

https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng

As previously posted the seer stone was used for the majority of the translation, and NOT how the pictures at church indicate that translation was performed. I use the term "translation" loosely because that's not what he did.

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Plenty of people know about the seer stone and have even seen the illustration of Joseph Smith using it. It's not the most widely talked about thing, but just because you didn't learn about it growing up doesn't mean no one did.

Edited by Eowyn

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I must admit that I expected seer stones to be white and more transparent.  I wonder if there are types or classifications of seer stones.  I also wonder if the stone will be scientifically tested and analyzed.  I suspect the composition of the stone to be quite ordinary. 

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I must admit that I expected seer stones to be white and more transparent.  I wonder if there are types or classifications of seer stones.  I also wonder if the stone will be scientifically tested and analyzed.  I suspect the composition of the stone to be quite ordinary. 

It's just a rock Traveler, sorry to disappoint you, but I suspect it's the Indian not the arrow that makes it work.

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It's just a rock Traveler, sorry to disappoint you, but I suspect it's the Indian not the arrow that makes it work.

other seer stones have been found. While i do believe that it is the indian for the majority of it, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some property that is bound to the stone that mkes it different.

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I suspect the composition of the stone to be quite ordinary. 

 

It's just a rock Traveler, sorry to disappoint you

 

Given Traveler's statement above, why do you suppose you might be disappointing him?
 

but I suspect it's the Indian not the arrow that makes it work.

 

The Indian has to have an arrow to shoot. A plain old stick won't work.

 

If the rock did have some special property, we would not even know where to begin looking for that property. Is it a particular crystalline arrangement? A precise chemical ratio? Does it have to be consecrated by Priesthood authority? What exactly makes a rock into a seerstone? You may speculate all you want, but when the sun goes down, you still don't know. Perhaps you should not be so quick to make blanket statements about things utterly beyond your ken.

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This is why there are negative comments, those who grew up in the church were never taught about a "seer" stone. Not in primary, and not as adults, and not in our current curriculum (to my knowledge). So if people are reacting negatively I get it.

As previously posted the seer stone was used for the majority of the translation, and NOT how the pictures at church indicate that translation was performed. I use the term "translation" loosely because that's not what he did.

Strange, I knew about it and never even tried to find anything out about it.  I think by "hiding" our history, a lot of people mean not screaming it in your face until you can't possibly miss it.

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If the rock did have some special property, we would not even know where to begin looking for that property. Is it a particular crystalline arrangement? A precise chemical ratio? Does it have to be consecrated by Priesthood authority? What exactly makes a rock into a seerstone? You may speculate all you want, but when the sun goes down, you still don't know. Perhaps you should not be so quick to make blanket statements about things utterly beyond your ken.

 

Are you claiming that this seer stone has mystical powers?

 

It is pretty easy to make a blanket statement about a plain old rock. Albeit one of significant historical importance, but at the end of the day it's just a rock.

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Strange, I knew about it and never even tried to find anything out about it.  I think by "hiding" our history, a lot of people mean not screaming it in your face until you can't possibly miss it.

The fact that you are interested enough about our religion to take the time to post on forums and such indicates that you have much more interest in it than the majority of the LDS community.

 

no one who posts on this board will surprise me by saying "oh yeah that's old news" because it is. 

 

I am talking about your cultural Mormon. Who never looked beyond what they were taught in sunday school

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Are you claiming that this seer stone has mystical powers?

 
I made no such claim. Rather, I pointed out that you have no idea what makes a stone into a seerstone.
 

It is pretty easy to make a blanket statement about a plain old rock. Albeit one of significant historical importance, but at the end of the day it's just a rock.

 

How do you know?

Edited by Vort

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Suppose we were to do a chemical assay on a vial of consecrated oil. What do you suppose the testing would reveal? I assume it would show that the consecrated oil was, in fact, olive oil, as we already knew.

 

Does that mean therefore the oil wasn't consecrated?

 

Does that mean the consecrating of the oil did not have any effect on the oil?

 

Or does it simply mean that the physical effect of consecrating oil is a subtle thing that is not detected by crude chemical tests?

 

To use Nibley's example: A child uses soap to wash his hands, but he doesn't understand what the soap does. For the child, using soap is an act of faith, with the soap as a symbol of cleanliness. But the soap performs a real function that the child does not understand. The child sees washing with soap as "the way you're s'pose to do it," but the chemical reality is that the soap decreases the water's surface tension and allows it to penetrate and dissolve or suspend dirt and other impurities.

 

Why do we assume that we are so incredibly smart that we've got things all figured out? Why do we think to proclaim, "It's just a rock!" or "It's just olive oil!" or "It's just words!", as if we have some special insight or somehow just know that there is nothing of a higher nature going on? Little children have no such hubris; that's an adult trait. The Savior truly taught that we must become as little children if we hope to enter heaven.

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