Reid and Abortion

[Windseeker]

And my point is - If there are no restriction to the means then it's easy to achieve your ends especially when your constituents exist in the same moral vacuum.

 

But I agree 100% that Republicans have little to no excuse for not achieving their ends via ethical means and Reagan was a perfect example of keeping to his word and doing it with style.

 

I share your disappointment in the Republicans but can't admire an individual who breeches the most basic universal standard of morality in order to achieve his ends and then boasts about it. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by Windseeker

[Guest]

My point is that if Senator Read says he will do something or stop something - he means what he says and he will back what he says with actual acion.  Tell me one - just one Republican that does that.  Repbublicans say they will ballance the budget - they have full power the the Senat and the House to do exactly that - tell me the last time the Republicians at the federal level blananced any budget.  States have to balance their budget because they cannot print their own money. 

 

Even Ragan promised to fix Social Secruity and had a special audit to do exactly that -- but when he discovered the 3 main problem with Social Security -- he did exactly what everyone else has done -- nothing to fix the actual problem.  And everybody since Ragan has covered up the 3 main problems.  Now you cannot even get the audit on the internet!! Nor is the report any longer in print.  Go figure.

 

I do not agree with any thing politically with Reed but he does what he says he will do - and if any repbulican would do that - this country would not have a national debt.

 

BTW - we could solve poverty in the USA - we could have the best health care in the world affordable to everyone - but that is not the goal of either party.

 

 

I can name at least 2 of the current crop of Republican Presidential Candidates who has done what they promised to do when they got elected into office.  I can't mention their names because it's against lds.net rules, though.

Edited August 20, 2015 by anatess

[thoughts]

Yes the videos are awful.   And yes, in most states, abortion is a major part of the PP services.   But Sen. Reid is correct that PP is also a very big provider of other women's health services, and shutting them down would matter, particularly to poor women.   We don't have to vilify those who see things differently than we do. 

 

And while the church does NOT approve of abortion, it has determined it will not take any church disciplinary action against women who get one when they are pregnant through rape or incest, or when the life of the mother is at risk.   So the church would not facially oppose those women getting abortions through PP, either. 

[Guest]

Yes the videos are awful.   And yes, in most states, abortion is a major part of the PP services.   But Sen. Reid is correct that PP is also a very big provider of other women's health services, and shutting them down would matter, particularly to poor women.   We don't have to vilify those who see things differently than we do. 

 

And while the church does NOT approve of abortion, it has determined it will not take any church disciplinary action against women who get one when they are pregnant through rape or incest, or when the life of the mother is at risk.   So the church would not facially oppose those women getting abortions through PP, either. 

 

Not correct.  Planned Parenthood is far from the only provider of women's health services.  The government can route their money to other organizations who have standards aligned with the intent of the Rowe vs Wade ruling.  Planned Parenthood can keep their doors open but they will have to do so without government funding.

 

And although the Church does not have a ban on abortion like the Catholics, we are not just talking about abortion here.  We are talking about harvesting human parts.  What is wrong about that, you say, when people harvest donor organs on a regular basis?  Well, it is simple.  The only reason Rowe vs Wade stands is because the aborted fetus is not considered a human being.  It is considered simply as tissue.  In which case, electively aborting the "tissue" does not infringe on the basic God-given human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness of the fetus.  Harvesting its body parts for organ donation contradicts this stance that it is merely "tissue".  Harvesting its body parts makes the fetus a human being capable of organ donation which would then be qualified to the basic God-given human rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  This is now called killing.  Something that the Church is clearly against.

[cdowis]

My point is that if Senator Read says he will do something or stop something - he means what he says and he will back what he says with actual acion.  Tell me one - just one Republican that does that.  Repbublicans say they will ballance the budget - they have full power the the Senat and the House to do exactly that - tell me the last time the Republicians at the federal level blananced any budget.  States have to balance their budget because they cannot print their own money. 

 

Even Ragan etc etc etc etc etc

 

 

Please do not hijack this thread and turn it into a partisan debate.  Please do not use the "republican" or "democratic" parties in your response.

 

You can start your OWN thread.

thankyousoverymuch.

[Just_A_Guy]

Yes the videos are awful.   And yes, in most states, abortion is a major part of the PP services.   But Sen. Reid is correct that PP is also a very big provider of other women's health services, and shutting them down would matter, particularly to poor women.   We don't have to vilify those who see things differently than we do. 

 

I would submit that some things are so patently evil that they offset any other good they may incidentally do. 

 

Josef Mengele, so I'm told, was a highly competent physician who was remarkably kind to children and whose early work presumably saved many lives.

 

[Capitalist_Oinker]

I think we need to be careful in going too far with politics to making specific individuals a personal vendetta. 

 

Whether or not this was directed at me, I can assure you my feelings toward Mr. Reid are NOT politically motivated. My feelings stem solely from the fact that the man is a congenital liar, and in my opinion a disgrace to the Church.

 

Here we have a man who bore false witness against a fellow saint in order to destroy his political ambitions. 

Then upon being confronted with his lies and being offered the chance to apologize, Mr. Reid declares that he feels no remorse whatsoever, because after all, his lies successfully prevented his fellow saint from obtaining his desired goal.

 

Had Mitt Romney pushed the issue (within the Church), I believe a disciplinary council could (and should) have been initiated, and I believe Reid would have had some serious explaining to do before the council. 

 

IMO Harry Reid is a despicable human being, and I say again, I would ask to be released before I would sign a temple recommend for the man.

[cdowis]

This thread actually has a point. 

 

A missionary related an experience that he had.  He was trying to teach someone, but they told him, "As long as 'Joe Doe' is in your church as a leader, I have no interest at all."  He then related how Joe Doe had cheated him in a business deal

 

The missionary was shocked because Joe Doe was a stake president, and he was certain that there was some misunderstanding.  So he went to the stake president and asked him about what had happened.

 

Yes, he admitted that the story was true.  He explained, "You have to understand that business is business, and church is church."

 

Some businessmen and politicians are able to separate the two, so they are able to sleep peacefully at night.  I suppose they think going to church, paying tithing, etc  gives them "privilege" in their outside lives.

 

They are able to give the "right" answers when they have their temple recommend interview.

Edited August 21, 2015 by cdowis

[Vort]

Whether or not this was directed at me, I can assure you my feelings toward Mr. Reid are NOT politically motivated.

 

While I am not ready to sign on with a personal judgment of Harry Reid, I agree with what you write above. I think it's beyond dispute that he is a liar; his actions regarding Romney have been nothing short of shameful. The only way I could be more disgusted is if he claimed to be a social and political conservative. So, ironically, his Democratic Party affiliation actually works in my mind to exculpate him to some (very tiny) degree.

[pam]

 I do not agree with Reed – but I trust his word more than any republican.

 

 

Ohhhh wow...Are you really serious?  Wow...that's all I can say.

[Traveler]

Ohhhh wow...Are you really serious?  Wow...that's all I can say.

I am very serious – name one program or effort initiated by the Republican political machine since WWII that has actually reduced the national debt or individual dependence on the Federal Government. Or a program that actually shifted power away from federal agencies to individual States.

It is the popular republican rhetoric that Barney Frank and the Democratic Party were singly responsible the last banking crash based on unqualified home loans. The truth is the Republican Party had their hands soiled in the same pots as the Democrats. Even Ragan promised to fix Social Security and brought in the famous Milton Friedman to figure out what to do – but when it was established what the two most blatant problems was – Ragan backed down and as of today Social Security is in as much danger and is as unsustainable as it ever has been.

I would be interested in any Republican supporter presenting anything that the Republican Party has done in 75 years to convince them that the Republican party can be trusted with anything.

[Vort]

I am very serious – name one program or effort initiated by the Republican political machine since WWII that has actually reduced the national debt or individual dependence on the Federal Government. Or a program that actually shifted power away from federal agencies to individual States.

 

The interstate highway system, by enabling commerce, arguably accomplished just these goals. And it was implemented during the Eisenhower administration.

[cdowis]

For obvious reasons,  I have requested that my discussion thread be closed 

 

Sorry about that.

Edited August 23, 2015 by cdowis

[Blackmarch]

I really don't understand how this guy gets away with it.

I guess you can believe and support any evil you want and remain a member in good standing, as long as you don't attack the Church and it's Leaders directly.

It really presses the need to constantly check and evaluate yourself against the light you've been given.

PP has yet to be proven in court, or that it is a company wide issue. In general, the church tries to avoid exing until the very last moment... In this case there is a lot of grey area. Even in cases where people are attacking the leaders, it seems the church hs been pretty lenient in general. (which is rather comforting to me at least, glad that the church generally follows the principle of mercy, rather than being pressing for justice.)