Help me puzzle out this statement by Elder James E. Talmage

[Laniston]

My wife and I have been studying the Old Testament and use the institute manual alongside for clarity.  Every other day we study something else, but the past 2 days we've done an enrichment section regarding the Assyrians conquering the nation of Israel and the 10 tribes becoming lost.  In this section there is a quote from Elder James E. Talmage of something he said in 1916 which is puzzling me.

 

Here it is:

 

Then in October conference Elder Talmage spoke again of the lost tribes and made this remarkable prediction: “The ten tribes shall come; they are not lost unto the Lord; they shall be brought forth as hath been predicted; and I say unto you there are those now living—aye, some here present—who shall live to read the records of the Lost Tribes of Israel, which shall be made one with the record of the Jews, or the Holy Bible, and the record of the Nephites, or the Book of Mormon, even as the Lord hath predicted” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1916, p. 76; emphasis added).

 

Now, anyone born in 1916 is around 99 years old today.  This would suggest that the event Elder Talmage is prophecying ought to be happening quite soon would it not?  Age spans being what they are for someone to have been at that conference and be alive today to read the records of the lost tribes it would have to be very soon.  Or have I somehow missed this event altogether and it already happened?

Edited August 21, 2015 by Laniston

[Saint Peter]

Maybe, the Apostles and Prophet were given the record and translated it years ago.. But just have not revealed it to the world yet! Not quite sure, maybe he was just speaking out of personal opinion.

[Crypto]

Or have I somehow missed this event altogether and it already happened?

Maybe the records are already among us, we simply are unaware of their connection to the lost tribes of Israel. There are quite a few religious texts.

One direct example might be the Dead Sea Scrolls...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadok

(emphasis on might and maybe since, it's just a guess)

Edited August 21, 2015 by Crypto

[Guest]

There has been no authoritative statements about the fulfillment of this prophecy, in case that's what you're asking.

 

So, anything that we point out here will just be educated guesses.

[omegaseamaster75]

His personal opinion, another instance when we can't take as scripture the utterances of the apostles.

[Laniston]

His personal opinion, another instance when we can't take as scripture the utterances of the apostles.

This is from a general conference talk, and published in a church-approved curriculum manual for university students.  It is not just opinion. 

 

Whether Elder Talmage is speaking the truth or not isn't my concern.  I know that what is said in General Conference is said under the inspiration of the spirit.  There are, however, different ways as the hearer a statement from an Apostle can be taken and I wonder if I might be interpreting here differently than his intention.  Sadly Elder Talmage isn't around to answer my question.

[Traveler]

I have wondered if such predictions are not just concerning the record in question but perhaps something to say about individuals present at the conference. I wonder if the prophesy is more about someone being translated than a specific time based on normal life expectancy. BTW – Jesus made a similar prediction about “this generation” not all passing away before the fulfillment of the last days – perhaps he was talking about the Apostle John and not a standard lifetime.

[bytebear]

I suspect the Dead Sea scrolls and other ancient texts are out there, and available, but we haven't made the effort to discern them.  I also fear Satan is using the current crisis in the Middle East to destroy these records as radical extremists eradicate religious relics.

[mordorbund]

Elder Oaks, 2006 General Conference:

 

 

We conclude from this that the Lord will eventually cause the inspired teachings He has given to His children in various nations to be brought forth for the benefit of all people. This will include accounts of the visit of the resurrected Lord to what we call the lost tribes of Israel and His revelations to all the seed of Abraham. The finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls shows one way this can occur.

 

Personally, I think we need to look beyond that region for these records. These are supposed to be from scattered Israel. Judah's testament of Christ's visit came from the Holy Land. Joseph's testament of Christ's visit came from North America. Simeon wasn't in Galilee when Christ was resurrected, so we need to look elsewhere for his account.

[cdowis]

This is from a general conference talk, and published in a church-approved curriculum manual for university students.  It is not just opinion. 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing with us your personal opinion on what constitutes canonized scripture and official doctrine.  

 

Perhaps this statement from the church will clarify this issue.

 

• Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency(the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

   

  http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

Edited August 23, 2015 by cdowis

[Blackmarch]

There have been multiple religious records that have been sealed up, that have come forth in recent times, likecthe dead sea scrolls. And some of the people that have been involved with these have been LDS. To me that is a fulfillment of talmages statement.

[thoughts]

Well there are the three Nephites who would fit in that category.   Maybe Elder Talmadge misunderstood his own revelation.  That too is possible.   Or maybe he made assumptions about the literalness of the 7,000th thousand years which were faulty (so he was thinking the second coming would have already happened by now).

Edited August 23, 2015 by thoughts

[Timpman]

I'm pretty sure nothing in the Dead Sea Scrolls are "records of the Lost Tribes of Israel."

Edited August 24, 2015 by Timpman

[omegaseamaster75]

This is from a general conference talk, and published in a church-approved curriculum manual for university students.  It is not just opinion. 

 

 

It being a conference talk does not make it cannon...still his opinion on the matter I wouldn't take it so seriously

[Just_A_Guy]

I'm pretty sure nothing in the Dead Sea Scrolls are "records of the Lost Tribes of Israel."

 

In other words--none of them either discuss, or claim as part of their origin/transmission, any of the tribes of Israel other than Judah and Benjamin (the not-lost tribes)?

 

(Genuinely curious; I haven't read much on the Dead Sea Scrolls.)

[hagoth]

My wife and I have been studying the Old Testament and use the institute manual alongside for clarity.  Every other day we study something else, but the past 2 days we've done an enrichment section regarding the Assyrians conquering the nation of Israel and the 10 tribes becoming lost.  In this section there is a quote from Elder James E. Talmage of something he said in 1916 which is puzzling me.

 

Here it is:

 

Then in October conference Elder Talmage spoke again of the lost tribes and made this remarkable prediction: “The ten tribes shall come; they are not lost unto the Lord; they shall be brought forth as hath been predicted; and I say unto you there are those now living—aye, some here present—who shall live to read the records of the Lost Tribes of Israel, which shall be made one with the record of the Jews, or the Holy Bible, and the record of the Nephites, or the Book of Mormon, even as the Lord hath predicted” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1916, p. 76; emphasis added).

 

Now, anyone born in 1916 is around 99 years old today.  This would suggest that the event Elder Talmage is prophecying ought to be happening quite soon would it not?  Age spans being what they are for someone to have been at that conference and be alive today to read the records of the lost tribes it would have to be very soon.  Or have I somehow missed this event altogether and it already happened?

Based on a number of passages, I am of the opinion that much of Israel is currently gathered into various Christian denominations, and that those denominations, to some degree, are a parallel to tribes (or factions, if you will) of Israel. Their records have been available for quite some time, and there are a number of very valuable and edifying things there, both for an LDS audience, and for the broader public.

 

The Book of Mormon adds some helpful commentary regarding that, as my brother reminded me last weekend.

 

So people are free to believe Elder Talmage's promise is past and gone, if they wish. Meanwhile, I believe the promise is fulfilled, and that more is yet to be revealed.

[The Folk Prophet]

How do we know that no one has read part of some of these records? The implication of the quote is that some alive would read them...not that they would become part of LDS canon while those hearing his voice were still alive.

 

That's not my take on the matter. But how do we know?

[cdowis]

I'm pretty sure nothing in the Dead Sea Scrolls are "records of the Lost Tribes of Israel."

 

There was a program on KBYUTV on the Dead Sea Scrolls which basically said that they are interesting but did not have any special meaning for the church.  You don't really hear much about them in discussions of gospel doctrine.  That particular bandwagon has come and gone and drove right past the church.  There is some historical interest, of course.