Do you have any thoughts as to why people become inactive?


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We have had quite a few formerly strong saints go inactive. Do you have any theories as to why this occurs? Our stake looked at the records and discovered that previous to going inactive almost all stopped paying tithing. I am not sure what this signifies. Most here feel that this finding is significant but I am not sure what it means.

Have you observed any similarities among inactives that may explain why people leave? Any ideas on how to reActivate? I was inactive for many years myself. I came back because I prayed to know if the church was true - it is - so I started by praying and attending services and gradually shed my bad habits. Attending church for me and praying was step 1. Perhaps other people have a different reconversion story?

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If you're looking for universal reason for leaving the church then the reason had better be pretty broad. So I think -- wiles of the devil might cover it. Maybe pride.

 

As far as connectivity between the stopping of paying tithing, there's no way to put the horse before the cart or vice versa on that. Did they stop paying tithing because they stopped believing or did they stop believing because they stopped paying tithing? A little of both? Who knows. Probably different in each case.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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I think each one has their own peculiar reason.  And I'm sure a lot of them don't even know the real reason they drop out.

The bad example of most people today can lure the less faithful out. 

I think one big reason is  pride, or more specifically they become convinced they know more about the gospel than anyone in the church, and more about how to run the church than anyone in the church, and that therefore the church is not doing it right and they have to leave.  Ego, pride, whatever.

And each would need their own peculiar cure, or awakening, having thier blindness removed, etc., to return.

In other words, not one reason and not one solution to bring them back.

dc

 

The worst part is that few of them seem to be able to just leave and let it go at that.

So many of them have to take up their 'cause celebre' and go about a mission to get others to leave the church and I suppose follow them.  Messiah complex or whatever that is.

Edited by David13
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I don't know for everyone, but I do have a story about my Grandparents.

My Grandparents were inactive for the entire time my dad was growing up. He still got the basic lessons on God (pray, go to great grandma's Methodist church occasionally etc), but had no clue that they were LDS. Ended up getting baptized in college.

My Grandma was born into the church, but from a less than stellar family (inactive, a few with drinking problems, from what I can gather). Grandpa converted. Early on in their marriage they sometimes struggled for money depending on how well the farm did. While going to church they were told that they had to wear a white Shirt, a tie, black slacks etc, rather than what at the time was their Sunday best, which was very likely a plaid button up shirt, jeans, and a pair of nice cowboy boots, and a simpe dress for my Grandma. How ever, or what ever was said was taken badly, As far as I can gather that plus a few (likely petty) slights towards my Grandma caused them to decide not to attend their ward for at least 20+ years.
 

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I still pay my tithing but I am inactive. Have been for quite some time. My reason is that I simply do not belong, many members have gone out of their way to remind me of that fact, and the benefits of regular attendance have never yet outweighed the benefits of staying at home whilst still doing everything else I ought to be doing. 

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Sometimes stress and depression makes a person interpret things in a different way than when they were intended. I have no doubt that was the case when I was going through similar struggles as char. 

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I have a friend who was uber active and then met and married a member. She went to the temple to pray about whether or not she should marry him and she felt that she was given a green light. It turned out that he was a liar, a cheat, and abusive. I think she is angry with G-d. It is hard to think of a way to counter this feeling.

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Mostly, I think all of these things start with a lack of maintenance. The little things are "seminary answers" or "cliche answers" for a reason. When we  don't make prayer and scriptures (alone and as a family), temple attendance, serving our best in our callings, and FHE important in our lives, other things fill the gaps. Then the other things take over. Pretty soon there are chinks in the armor; then an offense, or a challenge to a gospel principle, or a period of difficulty is more than we can handle, and we falter. 

 

Any relationship has to be given time and care, including our relationship with Heavenly Father, or Jesus, or His church. 

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If I were to paint with a broad brush regarding inactivity I would use this scripture, Alma 7:24, "And see that ye have faith, hope, and charity, and then ye will always about in good works."

 

To some degree, even if minor (usually minor and then increases), a member of the Church has lost hope, which then obviously specifies they have lost faith.  To some degree, even if minor, a member looses some charity and harbors ill feelings toward another member of the Church.  A good intentioned leader may have said something (over zealous) that the member is unable to look past.

 

A loss of faith and hope, as a member has created an illusion of what is true within the Church.  Their faith is based on that illusion.  When discovered this illusion is exactly what it is an illusion -- their faith/hope is tried -- and either they conquer or they fade.  Much like a family of 7 (5 children) who went from activity to atheism in a matter of a year, although the seeds were there long before in the heart of the husband/father.  

 

This also extends to those who have become over zealous in faith, hope, and charity.  Their over zealousness causes them to believe that the Lord will start revealing truths to them for the population of the Church, rather than remembering the Lord has a pattern and this pattern is to protect his children.

 

In all inactivity though, there is some form of sin (commission or omission) that enters into the heart and mind of the individual.  EDIT, example, a family that specifies, we don't attend church because we feel the spirit more out in the woods, nature, where God is.  A tradition that will ultimately hurt children.  Truth, yes God is in nature.  False, we don't learn to come unto God by denying his commandments.

Edited by Anddenex
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I agree with Pam. The same small things that help us slowly grow roots in the gospel and become more firm to move on to larger commitments like Baptism and the Temple, if not done on a regular basis can lead to the opposite - Slowly degrading our roots from the base so much that the entire tree topples over. The fact that there may be a trend of not paying tithing before going inactive can be tracked, but there is nothing that tracks personal prayer, scripture study...etc.  I am afraid that what they think they have found is nothing more than a late alarm on an already degraded root system.

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How ever, or what ever was said was taken badly, As far as I can gather that plus a few (likely petty) slights towards my Grandma caused them to decide not to attend their ward for at least 20+ years.

 

I hear this the most. A simple offense toward someone, a slight comment, taken to heart. It cuts deeper then one would think.

 

I see too that people find an occasion not to attend for more than a couple of weeks in a row and find out that nothing bad happened. Nobody got hurt and nobody feels any the worse. They then measure the relative ease of not going to the "burden" of going and decide to just stay away. 

 

It is one reason I advocate for less orthodoxy in the Church and why I get caught up in arguments in the fourm. I believe being at church should be joyful and not a burden. Nobody should be made to feel out of place or unworthy. Making the comments in SS or RS about what "perfect" behavior should be, or telling people the resolution to their problems are only about becoming more perfect are not solutions at all - not for those who feel weak.

 

It doesn't mean turning church into a three-ring circus where everyone feels good doing whatever they want - something TFP said I was insinuating - it means being more sensitive to those who struggle to be at church and who don't "fit" the mold of reading scriptures everyday and holding FHE every week and pray five times a day, or pay a full tithe. I hear over and over again comments in meetings that I think offend others by calling people unto repentance (not directly) or insinuate people's problems are due to unrigheousness. No, peoples' problems are sometimes just due to life - the Plan.

 

Do we have a responsibility to call people to repentance? Yes.  Are we to seek exaltation through edification? Yes.

 

I, in no way, would condone any member to live less than what our prophets and leaders have taught. That is not my argument. My argument is that those whose only repsonse to people questioning and hurting is to "do better", only pushes people away from the gospel. We need to allow (tolerate) some level of "sin" in order to pull people into the influence of the gospel by keeping them in church.

 

Be sensitive when discussing obedience in class.

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It doesn't mean turning church into a three-ring circus where everyone feels good doing whatever they want - something TFP said I was insinuating -

 

I don't believe I've ever used the term three-ring circus... But the point, I believe, in whatever I did actually say, is that whether one insinuates such or not, the result is the result.

 

I do not disagree with the sensitivity idea, and I do not claim to be guiltless in offending others when I shouldn't. But there's a difference in being careful about how you say things and not saying them at all. If this is to your point, then we actually agree.

 

Where I think we disagree is in the idea of everyone being comfortable or without burden at church. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to humble myself, forgive and forget, and press forward with faith in spite of others. And this is true of anyone. People are people, and they are imperfect, rude, unkind, inconsiderate, selfish jerks. Even the best, most righteous have their moments. I simply cannot get around the idea that making everyone perfect in their behavior towards others is the solution, because it's a nice pipe-dream but it's impossible. People are going to hurt others feelings. Sometimes that's the fault of the person offending, sometimes the fault of the offended. But it will happen. Again and again and again. It happens everywhere -- work, church, friends, family. People are imperfect and they inadvertently hurt others. The solution isn't to try and get the whole world to be not only perfectly kind, but learn perfect empathy, and a level of mind-reading so they say just the right thing to everyone they interact with. The solution is to advocate, one-on-one, with those offended, to learn how to not be offended.

 

The reality of making the fifteen-million+ membership of the church never offend anyone is simply unrealistic -- beyond unrealistic. The reality of teaching an individual to humble themselves in spite of the imperfections of others, suck it up when they're uncomfortable, shy, feel like they don't belong, have no friends, etc., and to press forward obeying and serving as they should anyway has potential. Teaching humility is the only viable path, even if everyone being perfectly inoffensive was, actually, a solution to anything -- which it isn't because if people are prideful at some level or another, they're going to find a way out of the right path one way or another anyhow.

 

I do not advocate purposeful rudeness, intentional tactless castigation, or writing off anyone who is hurting or offended as worth nothing but disregard. But no one can get by even in life, not to mention the gospel, without building a bit of a thick skin about certain things. There are good reasons that forgiveness, humility, and turning the other cheek are principles of the gospel.

 

Being part of the church is burdensome. There is no getting around it. It takes time. It takes work. It can be very frustrating. People are hard to work with. Bishops and other leaders can be insensitive. Callings can be a horrible fit. Benches can be uncomfortable (they just replaced the moderately comfortable plastic chairs in our building with hard metal ones and my behind hurts by the end of priesthood meeting every week now. It ticks me off, in theory. But whatever...) Etc., etc. etc... This is life. This is the part of "the church" and "the gospel". Those who humble themselves and learn to focus their intent and efforts into first serving and loving God, and second into serving, loving and caring about others instead of themselves, will have the Spirit in their lives and learn to love and find great, great joy and comfort in the gospel in spite of all of the typical, natural, and unavoidable trials that being involved with people at church comes with.

 

A few weeks back the power went out on Sunday. They had the Sacrament service and then cancelled and sent us all home. I found myself so disappointed. I love church. I love being with my fellow Saints. I love hearing and learning about the gospel. I love (as is quite obvious) talking about it and sharing my thoughts. I was quite proud of myself (I know...a sin) that I was sad that church got cancelled. Yes, it was hot. There were flies everywhere. It was uncomfortable and hard to hear. But it was the church and gospel that I love.

 

This is my plain exhortation. Teach people to love church and to love the imperfect people therein. Teach them to ignore the noise, irreverence, unkindness, false doctrines, inconsiderate statements. These will happen.

 

Service, love, humility, long-suffering, patience, meekness, faith, dedication, obedience, commitment. With these in greater measure in our lives, the annoyances don't end up meaning much. Without these, we will fail.

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Acknowledge imperfections and tolerate them, yes, the same way we all do at work and play, and in traffic and everywhere else. People who can't handle those basic slights need help, either from their own self-improvement, or leaders and friends or from a therapist or whatever. But for a person (like myself) who has been consistently and purposefully told (or the word instructed might be more accurate) by leaders and non-leaders at church that they do not belong, and ought not accept particular callings (in their humble opinion) and ought not speak up in church, and ought not attend certain activities.. all because of a life circumstance that is completely out of anyone's control. Well there comes a point when turning the other cheek again and again becomes akin to self-mutilation. Yes the Savior did just that, and we all do our best to be like Him, but that was also His particular calling for which He had been prepared.

 

Being told over and over again to "suck it up" and to continue trying your best isn't good enough for every situation. Hearing it over and over from a Bishop or other leaders that "small offenses" are not something worth worrying about or missing church over.. well if nothing else that confirms the assumption that they are not actually listening. Hard benches are a small offense that affect everyone. The ward gossip causes small offenses but everyone knows and they support eachother in dealing with him or her.. even if its just a commiserative eye-roll from across the hall. There are many small offenses that most of us are capable of brushing off. However, being told in no uncertain terms (on multiple occassions) that you have no business accepting a calling in sunday school (teaching the Beehives and Deacons) or serving in Primary (age 6) because you are not a parent and so have no idea how to relate to children.. these are no less than deeply personal attacks. There are several people in our current ward who have said such things to myself and my husband, on many occassions. The Bishop can't or won't do anything about it (I don't envy him and appreciate everything he does do) and our own methods for answering for or defending ourselves have not changed things for the better. So we simply avoid attending church. 

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Guest MormonGator

 

 

Being told over and over again to "suck it up" and to continue trying your best isn't good enough for every situation. Hearing it over and over from a Bishop or other leaders that "small offenses" are not something worth worrying about or missing church over.. well if nothing else that confirms the assumption that they are not actually listening. 

 For what little it is worth, I totally agree with you. Sadly, we are all flawed people and sometimes all of us say stupid things to one another, even our brothers and sisters. 

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That is certainly something that needs to be addressed with the bishop, and on up until someone does something about it. I've never heard of such a thing. 

 

Our YW president doesn't have children, but that has no bearing on her ability to love those girls. And she really does. 

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Being told over and over again to "suck it up" and to continue trying your best isn't good enough for every situation.

 

This is entirely missing the point. Being "told" to suck it up and continue trying isn't good for every situation. But sucking it up and continuing to try is.

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People can say really dumb things. I still remember something my VT said (who was also the RS president) when I was asking for some help about 13 years ago. It stung, and I still get mad when I think about it. A couple other ladies in that ward said some really insensitive things to me then, too. Things that were none of their business. But I would encourage people to point their ire at the person, not the Church as a whole, and then work at forgiving the person. Heaven knows I've been ankle-deep in my pie hole often enough. 

 

Avoiding church because people say stupid things doesn't hurt them any. It only hurts you, and makes you feel worse and worse as time goes on. 

 

My sister has been known to say incredibly ignorant and hurtful things to me in the past. I don't avoid my family because of it; I just avoid her, or at least avoid certain topics with her.

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Okay, I'll clarify. We tried to suck it up for about two-and-a-half years of this, finally came up with the simple solution of avoiding contact with the people who so dislike us. It's not so simple, of course, our temple recommends expired and we are ineligible to renew them. But we do attend Sacrament most weeks. 

 

Good point, Eowyn. Sometimes it worked to just keep quiet in meetings, keep my head down, and not linger amongst people before and after. But then when they call you during the week to get free tech-help from your husband and also take the time to remind you of how great their child's previous primary teacher was compared to you.. well I guess I just need to screen all my calls better. And when you are called on in RS to give an example because the teacher knows you work as a nanny, but the next person who raises their hand follows your comment with "as an ACTUAL parent I know that it's not always that easy..." Again there's not much I can do that is not more disruptive and hurtful and would only call additional attention to myself in meetings and elsewhere. 

 

Sorry, I don't mean to make this thread about myself. But I cannot assume that my situation is unique. I know it isn't. My cousin recently came out of the closet to our family and a few trusted friends, she wasn't going to broadcast it, but it got out to people in her stake. She is no longer accepted at singles dances or other mixer-type activities (which in a single's ward are a huge chunk of the activities!) and has felt like she needs to keep quiet at church too. Its not something she is intending on acting on, not something she is throwing in anyones face. But it is affecting her church involvement already, after less than three months. I hope eventually people will lose interest in the cruel teasing and unfair judgements, if not something as simple as sunday attendance will be an uphill battle for her for the rest of her life. 

Edited by char713
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Guest MormonGator

 It stung, and I still get mad when I think about it. 

 

Avoiding church because people say stupid things doesn't hurt them any. It only hurts you, and makes you feel worse and worse as time goes on. 

 

 Oh I totally agree. You'll meet a blowhard everywhere you go, it's just life. I had an incident too in church that still stung me, but like you said-I didn't blame the church, I blamed him. It didn't make me lose faith in the church. 

I also stew about things and still get mad at slights against me from years ago. 

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If you are speaking recently, some saints are having trouble with what they have learned about the history of the restoration, and it leads them to believe that it cannot be the restored gospel at all.   

 

Some are simply tired.  They seek a rest from their labors and financial stresses.

 

Some didn't go one day, and never got dressed to return again.

 

Some are struggling with fitting into ther congregations because they do not accept church doctrine on marriage or something else, or because they feel unaccepted by them because they have different political or social positions.

 

Some quit paying tithing because they don't like how the brethren spend (or how they think the brethren spend) what they donate.

 

Bottom line, they've quit hanging onto the iron rod for one reason or several or another.

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