Do you have any thoughts as to why people become inactive?


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Guest LiterateParakeet

Yes, it would be foolish to place any sort of blame squarely on the shoulders of so-called active members and equally foolish to place blame squarely upon the so-called inactive ones, too. The challenge is to move past judging people in groups or in categories; and attempting to diagnose and then apply impersonal prescriptions. Instead, one must take each person one-at-a-time. The only way I know of to do that is true friendship in the purest sense (and by taking care that the friend is not a number or a project).

 

Quoting you...just because I thought this deserved repeating!  I especially love..."The challenge is to move past judging . . . "  Yes!!!

 

I also love:  "The only way I know of to do that is true friendship in the purest sense (and by taking care that the friend is not a number or a project)."

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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My take for what it is worth?  

 

They no longer believe the truth claims of the LDS church.  

 

If WE believe what we say, that the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion, then to me, no longer believing has to be the greatest single reason people leave.  Though it may not be the one we want to hear.  We tell people, for example, that if the Book of Mormon is true, then Joseph Smith was a prophet and we build an entire sequence of faith from that premise.  I would posit that we can do the same, in reverse for why a person leaves. 

 

We can pretend that it is offense, but if they really believe the truth claims of the church then would they not do what we encourage them to do and remember that it isn't about individuals that might cause offense but about the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

We can say that it is because they are lazy, that the Gospel is hard.  But each and every one of us that remains active have aspects of the Gospel that are difficult for us.  I personally dislike family history work, haven't engaged in it in months (perhaps I need to repent), but just because that is difficult for me doesn't keep me from sacrament meeting.  I know others in the ward that have difficulty with the word of wisdom, the law of chastity, tithing, home and visiting teaching, you name it...but they are still active.  

 

Whatever the surface reason I think it comes down to the fact that they don't have a testimony of the truthfulness of the church (please note that I separate that from a testimony of the truthfulness of the Gospel).  I firmly believe it is possible to have a testimony of one without the other.    

 

So perhaps the bigger question isn't why people go inactive, but rather, why the do not believe the truth claims of the church?  

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Guest MormonGator

I think we can blame ourselves sometimes. I speak only for myself, but I've failed my brothers and sisters in the church before. Have I been a good home teacher? Have I checked in on them and made sure they know they are loved and respected here? 

Like I said, I speak only for myself. 

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So perhaps the bigger question isn't why people go inactive, but rather, why the do not believe the truth claims of the church?  

 

I agree. This is what often bothers me: People quit believing the so-called "truth claims" of the Church not because the claims themselves are so outrageous, but because the Church disagrees with their pet social theories. They put the cart before the horse, claiming that no true and divine Church could teach that __________ (fill in the blank: women can't hold the Priesthood, women shouldn't indiscriminately kill their unborn babies, homosexuals cannot be sealed in marriage to each other, people shouldn't fornicate, drinking coffee is not a good idea, you should attend Church meetings for three hours every Sunday, etc.), when in fact they should FIRST establish the truthfulness (or lack thereof) of the Church, and THEN base their actions and beliefs on that establishment.

 

I personally have more sympathy for those whose crisis of faith comes from lack of gaining a foundational testimony despite honest efforts than for those who have simply bought into the current social fad and find the Church on the wrong side of the fence.

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Guest MormonGator

I personally have more sympathy for those whose crisis of faith comes from lack of gaining a foundational testimony despite honest efforts than for those who have simply bought into the current social fad and find the Church on the wrong side of the fence.

Same here. Too many people simply can't "rock the boat" and think for themselves. IE-If they have three friends who left the church due to gay marriage or something,  they are more likely to as well, probably. 

Edited by MormonGator
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I don't know, it sounds like semantics to me. A re-phrase of the same question: Why do people leave / Why do people lose their testimonies / Why do people not believe our 'truth claims' (not crazy about that phrasing, btw. . . seems a little, I don't know, anti- or progressive- derived for my liking). The answers are all the same. Not nurturing the testimony. Not doing the little things. Allowing self to become more influenced by man than by God, whether it's an offense or pet political issue, and being embarrassed or otherwise negatively affected by those things. 

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  • 5 weeks later...

If you're looking for universal reason for leaving the church then the reason had better be pretty broad. So I think -- wiles of the devil might cover it. Maybe pride.

 

I've been very close to too many who have fallen away to point to any one thing, even very broad topics like pride or maintenance.

 

The devil has more than one tool in his backpack.  And he's very adept at using them.

 

My brother left for many years because of a problem he had with a statement repeated by some general authorities.  He has since come back.

 

Several friends were simply overwhelmed with all that was "required" of them.

 

A cousin and the whole family, well, they just didn't want to believe or do anything anymore.  They simply lost the will to endure.  They justified it because they went looking online for anti-Mormon stuff and found enough to satisfy them.  But it was clear in the months before they found any of that, they were really wanting to leave.

 

Another relative went off the deep end because she missed sinning.  Yup.  She was completely honest about it.  She

wanted to go back to her old ways.

 

Another relative left because he didn't have any friends.  But he worked all the time including Sundays, so good luck making any friends.

 

Another relative -- I suspect it is because of sin and dissatisfaction.  But he blamed it on the fact that he never really gained a testimony after a lifetime in the Church.

 

Others got offended at an individual, or family, or group of people.

 

Some new members I knew just never "got it".  They felt something.  It was enough to be baptized.  But it did not endure.

 

I guess we can talk about the Savior's parable of the seeds cast about.

 

No, it is very difficult to say a single cause.  I've personally known all the examples above.  And I'm saddened by most of them.  One of them just made me mad.  I'll leave it to you to guess which one if you care to.

 

With regard to the issue of tithing... A common cause for any sin or refusal to obey is because we change our priorities and say <<insert excuse, or sin, or whatever>> is more important than doing the Lord's work or obeying his commandments.  Nowhere is it more obvious than with the issue of tithing.  But I believe it is really the same for any sin -- whether we leave the Church or not.  This one is too often the cause of downfall.

Edited by Guest
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The church is not "bottom line" a social organization. But it is still one component. No man is an island.

 

 

You can ignore it, develop a skin of mithril, and stick around on the beautiful island that is sufficient to provide for your every need. Or you can find another way to survive.. whether it's by searching for another nearby island or going on the offensive against those who say "this island ain't big enough for the two of us." The first is the choice of a saint, the second the choice of a human. The Church is for both types of people.

 

Char,

 

I've read all your posts.  I think I know where you're coming from.  I did not have the same issues you had.  But I'm having a rather more difficult one to describe.

 

I'm in this ward filled with very friendly people.  But no one there is really a person that could be my buddy.  I am just having trouble connecting with anyone.  Part of it is that we're all so busy.  Some of it is age gaps.  Well, there are a number of reasons.  It's not that I'm offended at them.  I just don't feel like they're my kind of people.  And my son feels the same way about the YM in the ward.

 

AND there is one guy that keeps making comments that tend to bite.  I think he's just never been trained in the art of tact.  I see where he's coming from.  But the way he says things just, well, bites like a chicken peck.

 

I'll give some advice that I need to apply myself for the situation I'm in.  I'm going to go on the offense with kindness.  I'm going to be their friend so much that they can't help but be my friend.  The problem is that I'm not very good at it.  This is something that I'll have to learn.  As for that guy that bites... maybe I'll develop a skin of mithril.

 

Actually, I'd prefer vibranium since it can breathe better.

Edited by Guest
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I've been very close to too many who have fallen away to point to any one thing, even very broad topics like pride or maintenance.

 

Everything that takes us away from the Lord nicely fits under pride. It's plenty broad enough to my thinking.

 

I have no idea what you mean by "maintenance".

 

The devil has more than one tool in his backpack.  And he's very adept at using them.

 

I don't disagree. But that is irrelevant to whether our pride/humility leads us to follow the devil -- whatever tool he's using -- instead of following the Lord.

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Everything that takes us away from the Lord nicely fits under pride. It's plenty broad enough to my thinking.

 

I have no idea what you mean by "maintenance".

 

 

I don't disagree. But that is irrelevant to whether our pride/humility leads us to follow the devil -- whatever tool he's using -- instead of following the Lord.

 

"Maintenance" was referring to some other posts that refer to not doing the basics like prayer .

 

I'd agree that pride is a pretty wide umbrella.  And I could continue debating it to the gnat's eyebrow, but what would be the point?  I think we understand each other.

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Everything that takes us away from the Lord nicely fits under pride. It's plenty broad enough to my thinking.

 

 

 

I think hopelessness doesn't fit under pride.  Hopelessness can bring us farther from the Lord.  A lot of times, hopelessness is brought about by negative experiences with people in the Church.  I have experienced this before where other people make it harder for us to fulfill our covenants so much so that we get sucked into hopelessness and it takes a long time, a lot of courage, and a lot of strength to get back up and try again.

 

My husband actually went inactive for years because of hopelessness.  His testimony was shaken (like all of us go through at least once in our lives) and he had a difficult time hanging on because of all the things happening in his family.  It was easier for him to just let go and stop trying.  He didn't get the strength to rebuild his testimony until he decided to start a family.  One testimony he never lost was that of eternal families.

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I think hopelessness doesn't fit under pride.  Hopelessness can bring us farther from the Lord.  A lot of times, hopelessness is brought about by negative experiences with people in the Church.  I have experienced this before where other people make it harder for us to fulfill our covenants so much so that we get sucked into hopelessness and it takes a long time, a lot of courage, and a lot of strength to get back up and try again.

 

My husband actually went inactive for years because of hopelessness.  His testimony was shaken (like all of us go through at least once in our lives) and he had a difficult time hanging on because of all the things happening in his family.  It was easier for him to just let go and stop trying.  He didn't get the strength to rebuild his testimony until he decided to start a family.  One testimony he never lost was that of eternal families.

 

All sounds like pride to me.

 

The thing about pride is that very few are willing to admit that they have it at the root of their problems. That's part of it's insidious nature. But the simple fact is that turning to the Lord with faith (which is the only solution to hopelessness) requires great humility -- as in the dispensing of pride.

 

(like all of us go through at least once in our lives)

 

This is untrue.

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A problem with attributing every failing to pride is that "pride" becomes less useful as an area of improvement. If I yell at my wife, waste time watching TV, use bad language, pirate movies online, read trashy novels, eat too much, and don't brush my teeth, in every case pride might indeed be at the root of the failing. But how useful is it to say, "Well, you see, my problem is simply one of pride"? Even if it is true in some sense, it seems like I could do better than to gather all my failings under the same broad umbrella.

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A problem with attributing every failing to pride is that "pride" becomes less useful as an area of improvement. If I yell at my wife, waste time watching TV, use bad language, pirate movies online, read trashy novels, eat too much, and don't brush my teeth, in every case pride might indeed be at the root of the failing. But how useful is it to say, "Well, you see, my problem is simply one of pride"? Even if it is true in some sense, it seems like I could do better than to gather all my failings under the same broad umbrella.

 

Oh, I totally agree. It is more useful, often, to deal with the closer specific of the problem. I think the way that understand that pride is at the root of all (or at least most) issues, is more by --- I guess applying it in reverse. What I mean is that it isn't useful to accuse others or self of pride. It is, however, very, distinctly, useful to recommend in others and to yourself the application of humility. 

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All sounds like pride to me.

 

The thing about pride is that very few are willing to admit that they have it at the root of their problems. That's part of it's insidious nature. But the simple fact is that turning to the Lord with faith (which is the only solution to hopelessness) requires great humility -- as in the dispensing of pride.

 

 

This is untrue.

 

I don't see pride.  Pride would be not turning to the Lord because you feel like you know better, or you can't admit you are wrong.

 

Hopelessness is when you know what is right, you try to do it to the best of your ability, the wind knocks you down and keeps you down and you just don't have the strength to fight it.  So you stay down.

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I went inactive because I have a neurological disorder (misophonia) and I honestly hated going to church. Not only that, but during the peak of my depression, I felt abandoned by God, and I still feel the pain of his abandonment.

 

Can't say I miss it though. I would dread every day that got closer to being in a three hour house of heck. Bathroom stakeouts became the norm until I moved out. Now I don't fear the weekend, and I feel overall happier.

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I went inactive because I have a neurological disorder (misophonia) and I honestly hated going to church. Not only that, but during the peak of my depression, I felt abandoned by God, and I still feel the pain of his abandonment.

 

Can't say I miss it though. I would dread every day that got closer to being in a three hour house of heck. Bathroom stakeouts became the norm until I moved out. Now I don't fear the weekend, and I feel overall happier.

 

Now, here's a point worth discussing.

 

I have very low level misophonia.  And I also suffer from clinical depression.  I went through a lot of the same feelings and thought processes as Dev describes here.  I even decided to leave the Church.  (i.e. -- went completely inactive, but still on the roster).

 

Here is the difference:  I had to come back.

 

I too felt abandoned.  I too felt happier in many ways for having left.  And I really didn't have a testimony because I never knew if I had ever felt the Spirit.  And, no, I didn't even feel as if something was missing.

 

It's a long story and in some ways indescribable.  But I simply knew I had to come back.  It wasn't even an actual thought.  It was almost a compulsion.  So I came back.

 

It's true that I say I'm "happier".  But that isn't the right word.  If I want to be technical, I would say that I have a greater sense of purpose and more fulfillment at a level that is greater than simple emotion.  I know I'm a better person for it even if I would have to honestly admit that in some ways I'm not necessarily happier.

 

I have since learned what the witness of the Spirit is.  I have a testimony that this is God's Church.  I have a relationship with God.  And I'm clear about my path in life and what He want's from me.

 

Now, I find my "lost" life somewhat pitiful.

Edited by Guest
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If I may liken pride to some noxious weed or some virus or cancer, I'm prone to believe that forums are by their nature a pretty fertile environment for infestation or infection. They require much careful precaution. If there is such a thing as a tool for diagnosing pride and properly prescribing, I'm prone to believe that the authoritative direction for it's use is in (Matthew 7:3-5). 

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If I may liken pride to some noxious weed or some virus or cancer, I'm prone to believe that forums are by their nature a pretty fertile environment for infestation or infection. They require much careful precaution. If there is such a thing as a tool for diagnosing pride and properly prescribing, I'm prone to believe that the authoritative direction for it's use is in (Matthew 7:3-5). 

 

Hmm. Did you read the lesson I posted? I'm not so sure Matthew 7:3-5 even comes close to covering it, though I do accept it as an aspect of the matter. In point of fact, however, following Matthew 7:3-5 is as likely to be a result of pride as it is to be a result of humility -- as is often manifest in today's twisted good is evil and evil is good world. The "I don't judge others" holier-than-thou-ness of the trend is certainly often a manifestation of pride.

 

As to the comparison to a disease or the like, pride would be more validly viewed as a lack of something rather than the acquisition of something else, imo. Pride = lacking humility. It would be more akin, by comparison, to dehydration or starvation or lack of vitamin X, or what-have-you. The prescriptions for such things is to acquire more of what is missing. In pride's case: humility.

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Hmm. Did you read the lesson I posted? I'm not so sure Matthew 7:3-5 even comes close to covering it, though I do accept it as an aspect of the matter. In point of fact, however, following Matthew 7:3-5 is as likely to be a result of pride as it is to be a result of humility -- as is often manifest in today's twisted good is evil and evil is good world. The "I don't judge others" holier-than-thou-ness of the trend is certainly often a manifestation of pride.

 

As to the comparison to a disease or the like, pride would be more validly viewed as a lack of something rather than the acquisition of something else, imo. Pride = lacking humility. It would be more akin, by comparison, to dehydration or starvation or lack of vitamin X, or what-have-you. The prescriptions for such things is to acquire more of what is missing. In pride's case: humility.

Yes, I did read the lesson you posted and I've tried to take it to heart. I suppose one person's point-of-fact is another person's nit-picking. You and I both know comparisons are almost never perfect. We also know they can be useful, as my intention is for my comparison to be in this case, for taking the Savior's admonition and applying it to oneself in a spirit-of-the-law sense. I also think my comparison is simpler than yours. Maybe it wasn't you, but it seems like someone said that simpler is usually better--I'm prone to agree. 

Edited by UT.starscoper
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I just went through a few pretty cynical weeks, where every time I saw the title of this thread, I thought, "Probably because Mormons are jerks." And I still feel that way. . . about some. The kinds of expectations and judgments we throw at each other? Yikes. Look, for instance, at a few threads here that have torn overweight people to shreds, accusing them of being less spiritual, sinful, etc. I can't imagine that happening in any other church, to be perfectly honest, and I think it's appalling. Motes and beams and all that. 

 

But I also don't feel that way, because I think I've decided that the internet shows us the worst of any group, but also the best. I come online and feel almost a sense a despair at how MEAN Mormons can come off on the internet (I've been guilty, too), but also how wise and kind and charitable we can be. Thank goodness there's no keyboard courage in real life, or at least that the blowhards are few and far between (in any ward I've been in, at any rate), and people are more careful with one another. I just wish we could all remember that there are real people on the other side of the screen. And behind the veneer at church. And underneath the perfectly clean homes that are only perfectly clean because they knew the HT or VT was coming. We're all real people with real struggles and real feelings that belong to each other, and we ought to treat each other as such. 

 

I don't know if that makes sense or contributes to this conversation as people hope, but I felt like it needed to be said. 

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Now, here's a point worth discussing.

 

I have very low level misophonia.  And I also suffer from clinical depression.  I went through a lot of the same feelings and thought processes as Dev describes here.  I even decided to leave the Church.  (i.e. -- went completely inactive, but still on the roster).

 

Here is the difference:  I had to come back.

 

I too felt abandoned.  I too felt happier in many ways for having left.  And I really didn't have a testimony because I never knew if I had ever felt the Spirit.  And, no, I didn't even feel as if something was missing.

 

It's a long story and in some ways indescribable.  But I simply knew I had to come back.  It wasn't even an actual thought.  It was almost a compulsion.  So I came back.

 

It's true that I say I'm "happier".  But that isn't the right word.  If I want to be technical, I would say that I have a greater sense of purpose and more fulfillment at a level that is greater than simple emotion.  I know I'm a better person for it even if I would have to honestly admit that in some ways I'm not necessarily happier.

 

I have since learned what the witness of the Spirit is.  I have a testimony that this is God's Church.  I have a relationship with God.  And I'm clear about my path in life and what He want's from me.

 

Now, I find my "lost" life somewhat pitiful.

I am really sorry you have misophonia and had to deal with depression, but I am really happy you found your way back to the Church, gained a true testimony, and have a greater sense of purpose. I wish you only the best, and thank you for replying with kindness.

 

Edit: I don't know if I will ever return, but it is definitely a possibility. And along those same lines, maybe I will come to the conclusion that going inactive was a huge mistake in my life. We'll just have to see.

Edited by DevtheWind
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Dev,

 

In the end, it is simply a choice.  I've been through all the arguments with the atheists as well as other faiths.  And when I take the time to look at every argument and every debate I realize just how logical they all are and just how stupid they all are.  There really is no way to know from any earthly means.  All the arguments COULD be true or false.  That is why an "other worldly force" is required to tell us whither is truth.

 

Part of the test and trial of this life is to determine if we have or can develop the ability to tap into that.  If you don't have it now, it may take time to develop it.  But it will take your conscious choice to continue.

 

If you saw the movie National Treasure, the dad was there saying it was all a bunch of nonsense.  There was no treasure.  And he could have been right.  The son refused to believe that.  He invested all his efforts and dedicated his life to its pursuit.  Eventually, he was proven right.  But all along the way either he or his father COULD have been right.

 

I looked for the truth for 40 years before I was finally given enough where I can say with full conviction that I now know.  Too many people give up too early and never realize that they could have eventually been able to feel the Spirit.  I hope you are not one of them.

 

For more on this see this thread.

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