Seems that I had it good in my dangerous professions...another shooting today of yet another officer!


Pa Pa
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Yea, those logger and electricians go to work with the threat of being attacked all the time.  Yep.

Attacked by a falling tree or ungrounded power, yes . . .otherwise oh yes, I forgot you are on the "front lines", every day you are literally going to encounter an insurgent who is actively trying to kill you <_<.

 

Please spare me.

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Attacked by a falling tree or ungrounded power, yes . . .otherwise oh yes, I forgot you are on the "front lines", every day you are literally going to encounter an insurgent who is actively trying to kill you <_<.

 

Please spare me.

 

More on the front lines than say.... your logger and electrician. Pffft. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Seriously NightSG? How about you tone down your insulting rhetoric a little. It's painting you in a light other than 'disciple of Christ'.

I'm curious why you didn't also call David out on his fat boy and bug eye comments?

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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Yes it does . . .what occurred in the 70s and 80s . . .the "war on drugs". When you start classifying police activities as a "war" you will change the mindset.

of course: the "war" on drugs gets much more attention than the war on theft, rape and murder for some reason.....

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I drive by a police precinct on my way to work. As I was coming up the block today, I noticed a man walking back and forth in front of the precinct carrying a sign. My first thought was.....now what are they protesting? (It's Portland. People here protest just for the sake of protesting).

I was surprised and pleased to see that his sign bore a statement supporting the police.

I wouldn't mind seeing that kind of 'protest' catch on across the country.

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of course: the "war" on drugs gets much more attention than the war on theft, rape and murder for some reason.....

Well maybe it's because the war on drugs is the driver for an increased militarization of the police force, increased state power, increased prison populations.

 

Wiki:

"Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "War on Drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980."

 

So yes, I do think it is most appropriate to call attention to the war on drugs (the government started it).  The real root of the problem with the change in police mentality originally was the war on drugs; it has only accelerated since 9/11.

 

It's amazing . . .Americans honestly do not comprehend what has happened over the past 20-30 years as we have morphed more and more towards a police state.

Edited by yjacket
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Well

. . .Americans honestly do not comprehend what has happened over the past 20-30 years as we have morphed more and more towards a police state.

 

This 'morph' is a result of the politicians.

dc

 

Also, what do you have, some 'personal thing' about the drug war?  Some 'personal involvement'?  What about the war on other crime.  You just ignore that?

What about the rioting in Ferguson.  Or Baltimore.  We as citizens are supposed to appreciate that, according to you.  Where was the war against that.

dc

Edited by David13
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This 'morph' is a result of the politicians.

dc

 

Also, what do you have, some 'personal thing' about the drug war?  Some 'personal involvement'?  What about the war on other crime.  You just ignore that?

What about the rioting in Ferguson.  Or Baltimore.  We as citizens are supposed to appreciate that, according to you.  Where was the war against that.

dc

 

Very true about politicians. Yes it's personal, if cops are spending so much time focusing on busting druggies they can't spend that time capturing violent criminals.  Pretty simple.

 

Where did I ever say the rioting is acceptable? 1st off, Baltimore has pretty stringent gun control laws.  You want to stop the rioting; let business owners own an AK-47; that will stop any rioting right in its tracks.

Edited by yjacket
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I have to agree with you on that one as well.  But again it's the big city politicians and police chiefs and sheriffs (big city) that put into effect the no guns for law abiding citizens, only for law breaking criminals policies.

I'm sure you have seen the photos of Korean business owners lined up on their roofs during the riots here.  Their business were the ones that were not looted and burned, oddly enough.

There is also a video in Baltimore of some liquor store owners, fairly well armed what, again did not have their store looted and burned.

And the vast majority of law enforcement are in favor of legal citizens owning and carrying guns.  It's the politicians disease that comes from the top down.

As to the drug laws, do you think rank and file cops are responsible for that?

 

All of the sheriffs of all of the Utah counties signed a pledge to uphold the Constitution.  Oh.  Except one.  Guess.

 

So let's look at the real problem, which is not the rank and file.  Not the tail.  Which doesn't set the mindset for the top.  It's the dog at the top.

dc

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Taxi drivers are in more danger of being murdered on the job than law enforcement. Almost twice as likely as all causes of death combined for police. Where's the special treatment for them? They're just trying to do a necessary, useful job.

That is just silly...taxi drivers get robbed. They don't die while protecting others, in the course of their sworn duties.
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As to the drug laws, do you think rank and file cops are responsible for that?

 

All of the sheriffs of all of the Utah counties signed a pledge to uphold the Constitution.  Oh.  Except one.  Guess.

 

So let's look at the real problem, which is not the rank and file.  Not the tail.  Which doesn't set the mindset for the top.  It's the dog at the top.

dc

 

A lot of truth to that; society has done it to ourselves.  Everyone wants to elect a politician who is "tough on crime". So those "tough on crime" politicians then enact laws such as civil forfeiture. Civil forfeiture encourages local law enforcement to get those drugs because if money or assets are suspected in being used for drugs they can seize them with impunity.  This pads the budgets of local law enforcement so they can buy margarita machines (no joke!). A very similar thing happens with military equipment.

 

Unfortunately, it's not until things start affecting the local population that people say wait a second why am I being treated like a criminal. It's not until the tail wags a bunch that people realize, oh crap, what have we done.

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You know their motto after any crime:  "Mah bebby din do nuffin".

dc

 

Don't we kind of continue with racism when we make comments like this?  Racism won't go away on either side as long as we continue to do things like this.  It's stereotyping.

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Well maybe it's because the war on drugs is the driver for an increased militarization of the police force, increased state power, increased prison populations.

Wiki:

"Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "War on Drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980."

So yes, I do think it is most appropriate to call attention to the war on drugs (the government started it). The real root of the problem with the change in police mentality originally was the war on drugs; it has only accelerated since 9/11.

It's amazing . . .Americans honestly do not comprehend what has happened over the past 20-30 years as we have morphed more and more towards a police state.

So if you have two+ wars simultaneusly, one larger than the other.. The smaller one is not a war?

police state or vigilante state. Pick your poison. Id personally be worried more about the laws being instituted (and their intrepretation) more than the enforcement of them.

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Don't we kind of continue with racism when we make comments like this?  Racism won't go away on either side as long as we continue to do things like this.  It's stereotyping.

 

No.  It's truth.  There is no race in there.  You are reading that into it.  Therefore you are the ... racist.

dc

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I have the utmost respect generally for individuals in the law enforcement profession.  I am grateful for their service and dedication, and anytime that one of them does not return home to their family due to being attacked on the job it is a tragedy.  Understanding and appreciating that does not mean that there is not corruption or negative ego that exists in the profession.  It does.  Similarly, acknowledging that some law enforcement officers are out of control in particular instances does not indicate a lack of respect for either the individual or the profession.  

 

Lost in this discussion is that the evidence does not support the idea that police are suddenly being targeted.  For example:

 

This year to date there have been 83 officers that have lost their lives in the performance of their duties (all types, including accidents).  That INCLUDES 10 k9 officers that died of heat exhaustion and 13 officers that died of heart attack.  Assuming that rate continues we will have lost 123 individuals (including K9 officers) through the end of this year.  That sounds horrible, and it is.  Yet it does not constitute an increased targeting or risk for law enforcement officers or that society is somehow less law abiding or that the respect for police lives do not matter.  

 

For example, over the last 10 years we have AVERAGED 157 lives lost per year which means the projection is a 22% DECREASE in officers lost in the line of duty.  The Median is 161 which means that the 123 projection is a 24% decrease.  In fact, only one year, 2012 had less lives lost (119) than this years projection.  No year, prior to 2009, had less than 140.  In 2007, 204 officers lost their lives in service, 82% greater than this years projection.  

 

For those of you who serve in law enforcement, my hat is off to you.  You have my admiration, my respect, and my thanks.  Any officer who does not return home at the end of his or her shift is one too many.  Honesty and integrity demand that we separate reality from mere perception.  

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No.  It's truth.  There is no race in there.  You are reading that into it.  Therefore you are the ... racist.

 

I disagree on two counts. First, it is both unkind and false of you to call Pam a racist. (Note that she did not call you racist, but said that what you wrote was stereotyping and promoted or continued racism. Big difference.)

 

Second, your claim that "there is no race in there" is disingenuous. We are not fools. "Mah bebby din do nuffin" is no kind of dialect spoken by whites or other non-blacks. In both word choice and phonic pronunciation (which you indicate by spelling), it is obviously urban black English, or as Robert Williams coined the term, "Ebonics". No one could mistake it for anything else.

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It is interesting to me that there have been societies that got along quite nicely without police. The necessity or not for police depends more on society than it is on the individual personality of police. If society determines that police are a necessity then it is expedient for us as individuals to figure out how do deal with them.

One thing for sure – if we are to accuse the police then we must do so from a perspective and history of upholding the law and respecting the law ourselves. We cannot say we have respect for the law and then say that those enforcing the law are not doing their job. If we are pulled over for speeding we can only profane innocence if we were not speeding. To complain that others were speeding more than us is not defense. It is not a defense to say we were singled out for some reason for breaking the law. If we are breaking the law we cannot claim racism, prejudice or anything else. When we are breaking the law – we are guilty. If we are guilty and try to blame anyone or anything else – we are the criminal that make police and all that is good and bad that come with them - necessary.

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