My husband feels teaching our future children the gospel is abusive.


Recommended Posts

My husband recently decided that any form of indoctrination to children is abusive as it asks them to believe something without questioning.  He declared himself atheist to me about 3 weeks ago.  He recently got really into studying philosophy and had a favorite philosopher you-tube channel full of podcasts who he claims opened his eyes to the blindness he's been in his entire life.

 

I was and still am very heart broken, but I am doing a lot better now.

 

We're both 27 years old.  We were married in the temple a year ago. We've both served missions and been members our entire lives.  He was the one that talked me into paying tithing on all our wedding gifts.  He's been an elder's quorum president in his single's ward.  He absolutely loves and adores children.  After dumping several guys for their lack of commitment to the gospel, I really thought he was my best chance of having a spouse who would stand by my side and teach the Gospel in our home with familly prayer, scripture study, FHE, and the whole package.

 

He refuses to pray to ask God if he's real, as praying alone indicates that he thinks there is a God, and he does not. 

 

I still love him.  i haven't been the perfect wife, and he hasn't been the perfect husband but we've worked through most of our first year of marriage disputes okay.  He can come off as a little controlling sometimes (example: most recently he watched me wash my face and told me that because he helps earn our income as well he has a say in that he wants me to use one squirt of face wash instead of 2 because its more economical).  He sees things as black and white.  Its very difficult to reason with him as he wants everything to be rationally sound and I can be very emotional and very unreasonable. 

 

That's some background.

 

Here's the kicker: He says he doesn't want to stay married to me unless I agree not to assert the gospel as true in any way to our future children (Instead of saying Heavenly father loves you, use words like I believe, and in the Mormon religion...) and not to take our children to church with me until they're able to pass a "reason test" where he can attempt to brainwash our children and they resist appropriately (he guesses around age 8).

 

Right now our plan is to stay married and get counseling until we can agree to a parenting method.  If we cannot, we'll likely end up separated. 

 

Not teaching my children the gospel as I was taught in Preach My Gospel feels quite terrible to me right now, and though I often want to give up i keep going and hope that he will calm his strong feelings against the church, but truthfully, he's so black and white and this happened so quickly I don't know it'll ever happen.

 

Is it not a commandment to teach your children the Gospel?  Would it be right to stay in a relationship with requirements like this?  He's changed so much.  It really hurts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frankly, if you don't have children, don't have any. Don't have any until you can work something out that both of you can stomach. 

 

I'm really sorry you're going through this. I can imagine it's very painful. Have you counseled with your bishop and/or asked for a priesthood blessing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had a blessing and I felt peace. I met with my bishop alone and with my husband. My husband didn't feel taken seriously (and hasn't by anyone). I've been working on finding a mutual solution with him but I really think he wants me to convert to his new way of thinking. My prayers say to keep with him for now at least but the cognitive dissonance is quite painful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed, counsel with the bishop.

My personal opinion: he's putting religion before his marriage if he's so stuck on these requirements for staying married/raising kids. I also think his method is also a form of brainwashing. To deny you the right to help decide what to teach your future children is indeed abusive. Parents ought to be united in what they agree to teach children. I Agree With Eowyn, don't have any kids until this is satisfactorily settled for both of you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest LiterateParakeet

He can come off as a little controlling sometimes (example: most recently he watched me wash my face and told me that because he helps earn our income as well he has a say in that he wants me to use one squirt of face wash instead of 2 because its more economical).  He sees things as black and white.  Its very difficult to reason with him as he wants everything to be rationally sound and I can be very emotional and very unreasonable. 

 

I'm just a stranger on the Internet, so take my advice as such, but I have to tell you this is a serious red flag to me.  If we sat down face to face, and you felt comfortable with me, there would be many more "little things" like this wouldn't there?  

It is one thing to say, "Hey Honey, I'm worried about our money.  Let's talk about some ways to cut back.  Even little things like using one squirt of face wash instead of two could help."

 

Do you see the difference?  In my scenario, you are treated as an EQUAL, and your opinion and ideas are valued.  The way he said it to you is very controlling, and that concerns me.

 

Another example of his controlling nature is his insistence that you not teach your future children about God or religion.  I can understand his questioning of his own faith and I don't judge him for that.  It is a difficult thing to go through.  But his rigid insistence that YOU now follow his new path, even though it's very different than what you had both agreed to when you got married is also controlling.

 

Good, happy marriages are a partnership, not a situation where one spouse dominates the other.

 

I'm so sorry you are in this situation.  It's not fair.  You looked for a man you felt loved the Lord as you do.  You married in the temple and now this.  I imagine you are heartbroken and this is likely the most painful thing you have experienced.   And I am even more sorry that what I'm about to say might cause you even more pain, but I'm going to say it anyway because I hope to prevent future pain.

Based on what I know of controlling personalities like your husband (both from my own experiences, and abused women that I talk to almost daily in support groups), your husbands behavior is not going to get better, if anything it will get worse.  

Honestly, I think if he chooses divorce, that would be a blessing for you.  But I suspect he won't actually follow through with it, but that threatening you with divorce is another way of controlling you.  Don't let him do that.  

 

You are a daughter of God and you deserve to be treated as such.  Do not allow yourself to be mistreated, even if the controlling person is your husband.  As the others have said, don't have children with this man unless you two can work this out (and I really don't see that happening based on what you have said here).  And don't agree to raise children without teaching them the gospel.  That will cause you greater heartache than you are experiencing right now.  I'm old enough to be your mother, and I can tell you that seeing my children grow into adults who are not only good people, but love the gospel and serve the Lord is my greatest joy and accomplishment in life.  Don't trade that to keep your husband happy.  Trust me that will cause you greater pain than you are feeling now.

 

Again I am so sorry for your pain and for the unfairness of it all.  So much happens in this life that is painful and hard to understand, but I promise if you stay close to the Lord...and stick with your commitment to raise your future children to the Lord...He will bless you.  Some day He will wipe away your tears, and heal your wounded heart, and bless you in ways that you cannot now imagine.  I promise.  Stay with Him.  Your path will not be easy, but you can do this.  Lean on Heavenly Father and Christ, they will strengthen you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it has been only 3 wks since he told you of his changed feelings, then I think you need to give it more time before you make any major decisions. 

 

Counseling with the bishop will only help you from a spiritual perspective (and I do not discount how much that can help). But, for the 2 of you, I would say you need professional marriage counseling. Both of you need to learn/know how to compromise and work together. And both of you need to decide where your line in the sand is. Perhaps his line IS not allowing his children to have anything to do with the church. Perhaps your line IS teaching/guiding your children in the gospel. But, I think you should both attend marriage counseling to help you both decide if you can work together or if these are solid lines that neither will cross.

 

I don't get the feeling from your posts that you have strong feelings of the church. I admit I could be wrong since an anonymous board doesn't allow one to express feelings fully.  But, you mentioned a couple of times that you felt Preach My Gospel is the reason why you want to teach your children. I would like to address something for you: you need to decide if your testimony is strong enough now and if not, then work on it.  

 

It sounds like your husband has some pretty strong feelings on things and I infer that you go along with them. If that is the case, then your feelings of the Gospel and the church will sway to his thinking unless you fortify your testimony.  Being the only one of faith in a household is extremely difficult. You will feel alone and you will not have your husband to help you when you get overwhelmed with spiritual issues (and everyone has spiritual issues). 

 

Some friends gave me this article, which I think contains a lot of truth in it.  I wish you the best.

 

http://mormonbuzzz.com/spouse-loses-faith/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems odd to me that a person would make such a sudden transformation.  Could there be other things going on in the background, a porn addiction or drug use or even an affair or something else that would dissolve his testimony to the point where he would go off the deep end like this?  When a person goes off the path they can reach a point where they don't want it to be true so they look for an excuse to reject it and seek to eliminate any reminders of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps you can ask your husband to explain why if his new dogma-based religion is so sound why it requires the fettering of all other thought in your household? 
 
If there is no God, the labels “good” and “evil” are merely opinions. They are substitutes for “I like it” and “I don’t like it.” They are not objective realities. - Dennis Prager

 

 
Atheist are literally the Gods of their own reality. You see his religious tenets dictate two squirts of face wash is evil and reason and logic dictate you must comply.
 
Sorry but this guy sounds like a real jack-n-apes. I know several atheists and this guy sounds like he is the worst of their ilk. There are many atheist that don't fear religious expression and thought and wouldn't attempt to suppress it. 
 
I would not consider your husband an atheist, he's an anti-theist
 
Anti-Theist  (obviously taken form a pro-atheist source and even they fail in their attempt to sugar coat these jerks with a chip on their shoulders)
 
While most atheists limit themselves to supporting a more secular society, anti-theists tend to view ending religion as the real goal. While plenty are aggressively angry, researchers point out this isn’t necessarily a bad thing: “For example, many of the Antitheist typology had responded as recently deconverted from religious belief or socially displeased with the status quo, especially in high social tension-based geographies such as the Southeastern United States,” and being combative with believers might help them establish their own sense of self and right to non-belief.

 

...In other words, in order for him to gain a sense of self he feels justified in suppressing yours. 
 
You can probably tell I'm no a big fan of the religion that made the 20th century the bloodiest in history.
 
I don't think I would stand for those antics. Life is too short and comes with enough challenges to allow myself and my children to be forced into wearing someones pseudo intellectual burqa the rest of my life.
Edited by Windseeker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the kicker: He says he doesn't want to stay married to me unless I agree not to assert the gospel as true in any way to our future children (Instead of saying Heavenly father loves you, use words like I believe, and in the Mormon religion...) and not to take our children to church with me until they're able to pass a "reason test" where he can attempt to brainwash our children and they resist appropriately (he guesses around age 8).

 

This is going to sound cruel, for which I apologize, but I can only reply to what is written.  And, to the above I would reply:

 

He doesn't really love you all that much, then, does he?

 

I get real uncomfortable when people suggest that practicing Mormons should leave a spouse whose testimony fails.  But when the spouse actively declares their intent to govern your own spiritual direction and makes unilateral demands as to what you say to your own children--well, that's something else altogether.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am generally a tolerant and patient person but, in your case, I'd run for the door. He tipped the crazy scale. Do you really want to deal with that for the next thirty or forty years? 

 

The only condition to staying is that you develop a will strong enough to laugh at his nuttiness and igore it. If you have children, you will take them to church, teach them the gospel, and give them two squirts of soap on each wash.

 

Negotiation isn't an option for someone like him. If he takes himself seriously, you need to get the heck out of there. If he is mentally ill - the signs are there - best not have any children.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Contrary to what many believe, religion can be a rational choice.
I'd start with reading Pascals wager.

and maybe perusing around this blog which is heavy on the philosophy side of things.

http://theomorphicman.blogspot.com/

 

Also realize, arguing philosophical points probably won't help, it would likely just cause more strife.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Beefche is wise in saying don't rush into anything.

 

So, instead, decide your line. Where is the permanent cement line, what are you willing to negotiate for your future marriage and family?

 

If you're unwilling to not teach any future children the gospel, or at least want to further discuss the matter, say so. He either follows through on his statement and files for divorce, or realizes his bluff has been called and hopefully allows for more negotiation. Either way, the ball is in his court. Your marriage either ends or the matter is further debated.

 

While I still hate what you say he is doing and saying here, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is on some kind of new-life high. He has his new beliefs, yay for him, and he has euphoria of his new perspective on life. And, sadly enough, he now may have a different wish for his marriage. Despite the many successful mixed-belief marriages we can all point to (including quite a few on this forum), I think the general rule is people want to have a partner who more or less shares their beliefs. Your husband probably wants an atheist wife and atheist family--not unlike how the average Mormon wants a Mormon spouse and a Mormon family. Perfectly understandable. So... he is going to have to have to decide if his wife's differing beliefs are something he can accept, or if he really feels divorcing you would be best. If he were here, I'd suggest he put the decision on hold for a while longer until after some good counseling.

 

I seem to recall someone posting here once upon a time about a husband who had left the church under the impression his family (the poster) would eventually follow him out, waited years and years for that to happen, and eventually divorced his wife.

 

If you were to go along with this no-gospel-for-the-kids routine, you need to be okay with it enough to support it. If you can't do that, you'll need to let your husband know that's not happening. You can move forward to whatever from there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My husband recently decided that any form of indoctrination to children is abusive as it asks them to believe something without questioning.  He declared himself atheist to me about 3 weeks ago.  

 

If your husband were me I'd say I need a good swift kick in a particular padded region. But this seems to perhaps be something more to do with internal pride and his own personal frustration at finding that life is not everything he hoped it would be.

 

So here are my quick thoughts:

 

1. Abuse implies a right and a wrong. There is no basis for right versus wrong in an atheist philosophy so he's still hanging on to his beliefs in a higher power.

 

2. He can decide what he wants, but you can decide what you want. If he's going to act like a dictator show him the door so he can find some willing servants to rule over.

 

3. If he is going to demand "reason" tests based on his "science" of accountability, then demand that he answer some real science questions right now including:

 

    A. Where did all the stuff of the Universe come from?

    B. How long did the singularity exist that scientists believe was the seed for the Big Bang?

    C. If there are laws of Physics, why didn't they apply to the singularity prior to the Big Bang?

    D. Why does he believe in the Universe? Approximately 96% of everything (dark matter and dark energy)

         can't be detected or measured. We only believe in it because the movements of the other 4% don't make

         sense without it.

    E. Why do we have to judge spiritual matters differently than how we judge dark matter and energy? We

         can see the good influence from teaching children gospel principles so why can't we have faith in the Spirit's

         existence while we have faith in dark matter and energy?

 

One thing is true among most serious scientists, the realization that we know very little about the big questions. If your husband has figured out the big questions kindly ask him to step out into the world and share it all with the rest of us before he tries to indoctrinate you with his newly found enlightenment.

 

Now, on a more serious note: please lovingly ask him to get a complete medical checkup / comprehensive physical. Discuss with him in completely non-judgmental terms the changes in behavior that you have seen. Be specific about how his actions and reactions have changed, and ask him to do this for your marriage to make sure he is OK. You should provide all of the specific changes you write down to the doctor he visits.

 

Do not argue about your observations. They are your observations and it is important for the doctor to know that they have not been discussed or negotiated. Your husband can write down his own "replies" or "answers" about your observations for the doctor to review but don't discuss or argue about either of your written information.

 

There are medical conditions that can result in rapidly changed behavior patterns and both of you have an interest in learning if everything is OK. Counselors are not equipped to evaluate those matters. They are only helpful after you have conclusively ruled medical conditions out.

 

Any son of God that can exercise the faith to pay tithing on your wedding gifts deserves understanding, compassion, forgiveness, love, and our hope that he can feel that faith again. May God bless both of you as you work through this challenge together!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not teaching my children the gospel as I was taught in Preach My Gospel feels quite terrible to me right now, and though I often want to give up i keep going and hope that he will calm his strong feelings against the church, but truthfully, he's so black and white and this happened so quickly I don't know it'll ever happen.

 

Is it not a commandment to teach your children the Gospel?  Would it be right to stay in a relationship with requirements like this?  He's changed so much.  It really hurts.

I chide myself in not showing more compassion in my first post. You love him, you hurt. I understand, and I feel for you. It humors me though that so many posts are asking you to negotiate with him in some reasoned thought. What I quoted from you above, is the key to the entire matter. He is not rational. I shouldn't have used the word 'crazy' as though he changed into something, I think he likely aways was such and it manifested itself to this point. I think you are on the right track of getting counselling, etc, but I see it more as a documentation of the condition not as a resolution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I'm in a little different camp here (I don't think it is anyone's right to tell a stranger when they should have children,when to get married, etc.those are personal decisions that can only be made with the help of God);

 

Which is more important to you being married to your husband and being a wife? or being a mother?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/7.14?lang=eng#13

 

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace

 

Do we believe the scriptures or not?

 

It really sucks that this trail has come upon you; we never know what curveballs life is going to throw at us.

 

Here's the kicker: He says he doesn't want to stay married to me unless I agree not to assert the gospel as true in any way to our future children (Instead of saying Heavenly father loves you, use words like I believe, and in the Mormon religion...) and not to take our children to church with me until they're able to pass a "reason test" where he can attempt to brainwash our children and they resist appropriately (he guesses around age 8).

 

Unfortunately in this case, he is the head of household and as such he has the divine right to preside over the teaching of your children. If he had all the sudden become Catholic-it would be his divine right to ensure that his children went to the Catholic church. Where does the boundary lie between presiding over the teaching of his family and controlling your beliefs . . .that is something you will need to figure out. 

 

To be honest, I think you 2 are focusing way too much on this aspect right now. Even if you got pregnant today, it would be at least 3 years out before you would even begin to worry about teaching a child the gospel. And 3 years is a long time.

 

Comments like "he is not rational" are about as stupid as him becoming atheist-they do absolutely nothing to help the situation. He most certainly has a very rational reason why he has changed-and it doesn't necessarily come from sin.

 

And I guarantee you there is a heck of a lot more to raising kids than simply teaching them the Gospel. For example, do you and him have a mission statement for raising children? I can write a mission statement for raising kids without putting the Gospel in it (yet still have plenty of Gospel themes). My mission statement: I am raising adults who will be responsible, hard-working, kind, generous, willing to take risks and to take innovative. Does the gospel help teach these principles, absolutely, is it easier to do so with them-yes, is it necessary for those qualities-not necessarily.  In a religious mission statement I add to that: adults who come to know Jesus is the Christ.

 

So maybe you can't come together on the "come to know Jesus is the Christ and the Book of Mormon is true"-I'm sure there are plenty of things you can come together on.  Take parenting classes together; read parenting books (my favorite author is John Rosemond).

 

Finally, if you want to primarily be his wife (rather than primarily a mother)-my advice lay low so God can smack him upside the head. 'cuz I guarantee you, in His own due time God will take a 2x4 and plaster him to the ground.

Edited by yjacket
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's two cents from an atheist/agnostic. I'm guessing it might be the only one you get on here.

 

If you've both chosen to remain married - good for you - something might change given patience and unconditional love for each other. It might not. I agree with others, don't procreate and bring a baby into this world until you're both on the same page when it comes to parenting, at least on the same planet! Mummy and daddy will always have some parenting differences.

 

I resigned from Mormonism early this year. Officially. Papers and all. I had talked to my husband about his feelings regarding the gospel and he chooses to remain a member. The oddness in our ball of wax is that I got him active again in the church after about 30 years of him basically living as a non-member. To point, though, we have decided on how we'll raise our daughter together. I won't badmouth religion - any religion - and my husband won't ingrain in her that there's a god or gods, but rather, that's something she'll need to learn for herself. Our system isn't perfect, especially, from a very active LDS perspective, but for a couple where one is atheist/agnostic and the other believes in faith - it's a reasonable outcome.

 

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yjacket, good to hear from you!

 

Unfortunately in this case, he is the head of household and as such he has the divine right to preside over the teaching of your children. If he had all the sudden become Catholic-it would be his divine right to ensure that his children went to the Catholic church. Where does the boundary lie between presiding over the teaching of his family and controlling your beliefs . . .that is something you will need to figure out.

 

Lots of good sense in what you say, but I disagree strongly with the above.  The right to preside (whatever that means) is tied to priesthood, and priesthood authority is dependent on the priesthood holder's personal righteousness (D&C 121 and all that).  He loses that right when he renounces his priesthood--he can't insist that his wife approach their relationship from a secular standpoint (which entails modern notions of "equality"), but then subjugate his wife based on the hierarchical claims of a theology to which he himself no longer subscribes.

 

I submit that a wife has no theological duty to blindly follow her husband out of the Church, or to let him teach the children apostasy uncontested.  If they agree to do that for the sake of the marriage--so be it; but that decision needs to be made as equals

Edited by Just_A_Guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yjacket, good to hear from you!

Good to hear from you too.

 

 

The right to preside (whatever that means) is tied to priesthood, and priesthood authority is dependent on the priesthood holder's personal righteousness (D&C 121 and all that).  

No he doesn't, otherwise only men who hold the priesthood have the right and duty to lead, preside, direct their families-which isn't the case. The right to preside over a family is inherent to being a husband.  From the proclamation of the family: "By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families."

 

Doesn't say anything in there about worthy priesthood holder.

 

I submit that a wife has no theological duty to blindly follow her husband out of the Church,

 

Oh I never said that.

 

or to let him teach the children apostasy uncontested. 

In life, in practice two people can't lead. There will always be a head. We always strive for unity and equality in decision making; but in the actual practical day-to-day life of things it can't always be that way.  Unless both individuals are leading lives 100% in harmony with God (not really possible), there are bound to be decisions that are made that one person doesn't agree with. It may not be the same person (in fact it better not be the same person) all the time, but one (or both at the same time) will very frequently be submitting their will to the others will. 

 

But that is what marriage is about, either you find a solution that both people can agree with, you do nothing (which is in effect an act), or someone has to submit. In those instances where a compromise cannot be found-the husband has the duty to make the decision-that's called being a patriarch. Saying that nothing should be done until unity is achieved is a cop-out because doing nothing is a decision and doing nothing in many cases of practical life is impractical.

 

I never said uncontested either. Part of life is learning how to persuade others to see your viewpoint. There are plenty of ways to teach the Gospel without actually having a lesson on it.  

 

This is honestly as big of an issue as they make of it.  Shoot, for all they know this conversation about children could be completely null-they could be sterile. They are talking about parenting and yet I'm sure they don't have the first clue about it. A marriage is 1st off husband and wife (it ain't mother/father). A wife's first responsibility is support, love and care for husband and the husbands responsibility is to provide, love and care for his wife.

 

So if this sister wants her marriage to work, rather than worry about her future children-she should be worrying about her spouse!

 

The new-age modern way of child-centered parenting and marriage has lead to much heartache and suffering. The children are an appendage to the marriage and family not the center of it. Because ultimately a family consists of a unit of 2 (husband & wife).

 

If she is focused on devoting all her energies to her spouse rather than future children (and if he does the same), I guarantee you an answer will come-they will be able to find a compromise and a solution.

 

I think Bini is a pretty good example, from what she has said her and her husband have chosen to focus on supporting the central family unit (husband & wife) rather than having a child-centered marriage, because of that they have a good solution.

 

If they want to talk about parenting, rather than focus on the differences focus on the commonality. And I can almost guarantee you, they have absolutely 0 clue how to parent properly. For example, what are you going to do when your 5 year-old whines all the time (and it drives you crazy), or you put the kids to bed and they keep coming out, or one kid won't do his homework, or the 3 year old has a biting problem, or the 2 year old doesn't want to be potty trained, or the 3 year old steals things, or the 4 year old won't eat dinner etc, etc. etc.

 

Having family prayer at night and reading scriptures every day won't fix those problems (they may help give inspiration to the parents though!). Raising adults is a very practical endeavor and saying "well I want them to choose for themselves" in all things ends up creating spoiled brats. Believe me, there are plenty of religious things a religious mother can instill in their children without being overtly religious.

 

And if he is fulfilling his proper role of provider-he won't have much time to teach apostasy to his children, because he will be more focused on his wife and supporting her needs rather than teaching apostasy. Never underestimate the power or influence a mother has over her children!

Edited by yjacket
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi TheMountain!

 

I am very sorry to hear about this. I can only begin to imagine what it's like right now. I may not be able to give you much solid advice on this, but I and many others are praying for you and rooting for you. Your Savior understands your pain perfectly, and will help you get through this. All will be made right. And in the meantime, you're not alone.

 

For the most part, I agree with the advice a few others have given: first get things worked out between the two of you so that you can live with your differences (assuming he doesn't come around :) ). Don't bring kids into it without resolving the issue and having some semblance of a plan. Follow your personal revelation and stick with it for the moment, but if he sticks with his "you change or it's over" ultimatum, I'd say let him follow through on that. yjacket's scripture sums it up nicely. But above all that - do what the Spirit tells you to, and rely on divine help for this one. So that's my vote, fwiw.

 

Here's the more unique tidbit of advice I have. I'm a little like your husband in the sense that I like to approach things logically and meticulously. So take it from me: the thing we "rationally sound" types often forget is that it's completely irrational and illogical to try to ignore other people's feelings (or our own for that matter). It makes absolutely no sense to try that. The very idea that he can demand that you comply with anything from parenting methods to religion choice to face wash usage, all on the grounds of supposed logical superiority, is itself both illogical and impractical.

 

Ideally, he'll realize this and give you some breathing room. But even if he doesn't realize it, you should never forget it. You're more logical than you think you are. Your opinion matters greatly, even when it's not laid out in a syllogism.  ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately in this case, he is the head of household and as such he has the divine right to preside over the teaching of your children. If he had all the sudden become Catholic-it would be his divine right to ensure that his children went to the Catholic church. Where does the boundary lie between presiding over the teaching of his family and controlling your beliefs . . .that is something you will need to figure out. 

 

Hey yjacket!

 

I love most of the content of your posts on this thread, but I also have to disagree on this point. Yes, the husband presides over the home and the things pertaining to it, but to me it doesn't follow from that that the husband has the final say on all unresolved disagreements. Presiding can work that way, as it often does in the church due to priesthood keys, but it isn't always so elsewhere. A judge presiding over a court, for instance, doesn't have that power over a jury simply because he presides.

 

The husband leads the discussion. He makes sure whatever decisions are agreed upon are also acted upon. But personally, I just can't see a husband having a divine right to the last word on teaching in the home, or anything else of significance in the home, unless it is yielded to him by his wife. But I admit I could easily be wrong, or I could be misreading you. I'm always open to learn if you care to elaborate.

Edited by Josiah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking as a Mormon who's married to someone who's not:

 

The way an interfaith marriage can work is if both spouses respect each other-- all of each other, faith included!  If your husband orders you to hide a major part of yourself, then that's a mega red flag.  Similarly, if you were to force your husband to pretend to have faith he doesn't, that's a mega red flag.  

 

Interfaith marriages can work, but they are a LOT of work, requiring respect and deep dedication.  

Edited by Jane_Doe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple of observations:

 

No he doesn't, otherwise only men who hold the priesthood have the right and duty to lead, preside, direct their families-which isn't the case. The right to preside over a family is inherent to being a husband.  From the proclamation of the family: "By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families."

 

Doesn't say anything in there about worthy priesthood holder.

 

Fair point, but it still says in righteousness.  From the point of view of a practicing Mormon, it cannot be said that there is anything righteous about a father deliberately innoculating his children against LDS teaching.

 

 

I never said uncontested either. Part of life is learning how to persuade others to see your viewpoint. There are plenty of ways to teach the Gospel without actually having a lesson on it. 

 

But, in the meantime . . . surely you don't mean to suggest that ultimately she mustn't say anything about her religion to her own kids because he has decreed that it must be so?

 

 

If she is focused on devoting all her energies to her spouse rather than future children (and if he does the same), I guarantee you an answer will come-they will be able to find a compromise and a solution.

 

I don't see much "compromise" in the situation the OP describes, though.  Nor am I convinced that a parent can get a waiver on D&C 68:27 just because the other parent happened to drift away from the Church; and I would be deeply skeptical at any notion that mixed-religious marriages where the believing spouse never actually talks about his/her religion, will inevitably yield committed LDS kids if only the believing spouse hopes and prays hard enough and long enough and is appropriately subservient to the nonbelieving spouse.

 

And if he is fulfilling his proper role of provider-he won't have much time to teach apostasy to his children, because he will be more focused on his wife and supporting her needs rather than teaching apostasy. Never underestimate the power or influence a mother has over her children!

 

Of course, with God all things are possible.  But, for what it's worth--statistically speaking, children actually tend to follow the father's rather than the mother's religious preference.  A Swiss study done a couple of decades ago indicated that, in mixed-belief marriages, 44% of children carried their observant fathers' religious practice into adulthood.  Only two percent of such children chose to hold on to the faith of their religiously observant mothers.

 

One other observation--not directed at you, Yjacket, but just something that popped into my head as I was looking at this thread title:

 

Abusive?  Reallly?  Really?

 

I'm sorry, but I deal with honest-to-gosh abuse victims (and perpetrators) on a daily basis.  I'm just plumb fed up with people who have no idea what they're talking about, throwing the A-word around in some passive-aggressive ploy to get what they want by playing the victim.  If OP's husband insists on suggesting that people who teach their children about religion are "abusers", she might consider reminding him that--generally speaking--it takes one to know one.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair point, but it still says in righteousness.  From the point of view of a practicing Mormon, it cannot be said that there is anything righteous about a father deliberately innoculating his children against LDS teaching.

My point is which is more important the marriage or children? LDS teaching directs that marriage is the foundation-not children.

 

They don't have children and having children changes your life. Granted people generally do what they say they are going to do . . .but if the marriage is solid, if/when they have children it won't be that huge of an issue-Bini is a great example (the marriage is solid-therefore a solution is worked out). We have a very small snippet of information into how things are actually working.

 

I would be deeply skeptical at any notion that mixed-religious marriages where the believing spouse never actually talks about his/her religion, will inevitably yield committed LDS kids if only the believing spouse hopes and prays hard enough and long enough and is appropriately subservient to the nonbelieving spouse.

In the actual practical day-to-day living of things you don't talk religion 24x7 to your kids-especially when they are very young. Children learn more about religion on how you actually live it vs. how you talk it. If he doesn't want it preached in his home that is one thing; if he doesn't want it lived in his home that is another. I'll say it again-they are worrying about things that are at least 3 years down the road-if she got pregnant today.  A lot can happen in 3 years.

 

One other observation--not directed at you, Yjacket, but just something that popped into my head as I was looking at this thread title:

 

Abusive?  Reallly?  Really?

 

I'm sorry, but I deal with honest-to-gosh abuse victims (and perpetrators) on a daily basis.  I'm just plumb fed up with people who have no idea what they're talking about, throwing the A-word around in some passive-aggressive ploy to get what they want by playing the victim.  If OP's husband insists on suggesting that people who teach their children about religion are "abusers", she might consider reminding him that--generally speaking--it takes one to know one.

 

Oh I definitely agree. Honestly, if I were her rather than focusing on the religious aspect of parenting, I'd focus on the practical aspects of parenting.  There is a thought process going around that parents are to let their children do whatever they want, that parents are supposed to let children decide for themselves.  As they get to be adults that is very true, but until then absolute modern-day new-age crap.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share