Why are some subjects taboo or ignored?

[The Folk Prophet]

A few weeks ago the lesson for third hour was on husband and wives.  I shared the importance of human initmacy in marriage and the sacredness of it, midway through my thought I got interupted by another Elder that said he didn't want to hear any more of it. 

 

Seriously nothing rude or even remotely specific to sex was brought up. Why is it some members can't even feel comfortable talking about a important part of marriage?

 

Ha ha. We had our Sunday School teacher once go off about celestial sex and how he looked forward to his wife's exalted state in that regard...

 

...um....

 

yeah... I think everyone was uncomfortable.

[Vort]

I talked to our deacons quorum about chastity, husband-hood, pornography, and sex. I guess I had forgotten how nervous and embarrassed thirteen-year-olds can get, but their laughter and silliness in response caught me off-guard.

 

This has been a great calling for me as I have learned to exercise patience and love toward these wonderful young (very young) men. I labor on in the hope that they will gain something from my efforts, perhaps even as much as I gain from associating with them.

[Blackmarch]

A few weeks ago the lesson for third hour was on husband and wives. I shared the importance of human initmacy in marriage and the sacredness of it, midway through my thought I got interupted by another Elder that said he didn't want to hear any more of it.

Seriously nothing rude or even remotely specific to sex was brought up. Why is it some members can't even feel comfortable talking about a important part of marriage?

Dunno maybe some feel it can get too close to worldly ways.

[JojoBag]

One of the reasons I feel the "don't talk about it, you don't bring about it" crowd is inaccurate is because of my 29 y/o daughter.  She sees and talks with evil spirits on a regular basis.  The pseudo-science of psychiatry calls it schizophrenia.  I call it pseudo-science because it not only does not recognize the part that evil spirits play in mental illness, it says they don't exist, period.  I know that not all mental illness is a result of evil spirits.  In the New Testament, the Savior clearly knew the difference between a lunatic and someone mentally ill, but possessed by unclean spirits.

 

Let me cite two examples from my daughter's life.  Back in Melbourne, about 2;30 AM, my daughter did a stage dive between my wife and I.  She said that she could hear growling in her room.  This type of thing was an ongoing occurrence, so my wife got up and went to her room.  About ten seconds later, she called me to come to the room.  I walked in and, along with my wife, heard the most inhuman growling coming from the middle of the room.  There were no animals in the room and the window was shut.

 

About two months later, I was working on the computer at 11:30 PM.  My wife was in bed, asleep.  From my daughter's room, I hear her scream.  As I quickly walked to her room, I clearly hear the weirdest hissing noise coming from the hallway.  I remember wondering if there was water spraying out in the bathroom.  I got to my daughter's room and asked what was wrong.  In a voice full of fear, she said, "There's hissing coming from the hallway."  There was no water leak, nor anything else that would have made the noise.

 

Every single day, I see the effects of evil spirits and I have become rather sensitive to their presence.  I have learned that feelings of depression, pain, illness, etc., are often caused by evil spirits.  I can give a dozen quotes on this subject starting with Joseph Smith.  This same thing is taught by a couple dozen church leaders.  The problem with the overwhelming majority of LDS is that they think these ailments have nothing to do with evil spirits.

 

Almost every LDS I have ever talked to feels this way.  The only LDS I have talked to that do understand this are Lamanites; especially islanders.  Their culture understands the relationship of evil spirits and affliction.  It is the modern, sophisticated white culture that doesn't understand and dismisses this relationship and unfortunately, too many LDS are sucked in by the deception. It reminds me of what the Apostle Paul said, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

[Guest]

Have you tried either priesthood interference, our heaven forbid, medication? Do you believe that chemical imbalances can cause mental illness?

[JojoBag]

Have you tried either priesthood interference, our heaven forbid, medication? Do you believe that chemical imbalances can cause mental illness?

 

This is a very complicated problem.  My wife has a fair bit of education in psychology.  She quit when she realized that the only thing a pshrink will do for someone in my daughter's case is to drug them.  That is the medical standard for the treatment of schizophrenia: drugs, drugs and more drugs.  Cognitive therapy is too expensive and even if it is used, what a patient says about what they see is nothing more than a figment of their imagination.

 

I suffered from depression for over 50 years; the last 12  of those years I was suicidal.  My helpful pshrink gave me lots of different drugs that were supposed to help me.  During that time the doctor tried me on 22 different anti-depressants, anti-anxiety and anti-psychotic drugs.  None of them worked to control my symptoms.  One drug, Seroquel, made me sleep for 12-14 hours at a time.  This was the pshrink's idea of managing my symptoms: for me to sleep my life away.  It did nothing for the nightmares I experienced on almost a daily basis.  When I came off the drug, I vomited for 6 weeks because you become addicted to it.  To this day, I now have problems going to sleep and staying to sleep. What cured my depression was someone getting me to talk about my childhood.

 

My daughter was hospitalized off and on for several months.  All they did was drug her into a stupor.  This is the case with the majority of these types of patients.  I have been in psychiatric hospitals and it is the same in both the U.,S., and Australia.  The doctor's idea of managing a patient's symptoms is to drug them senseless. Drugs cure no one and don't even manage the symptoms.  The only things psychiatric drugs do is keep patients quiet so they don't bother anyone else.

 

Drugs are not the answer to all problems, especially mental illness. If you do any research into the so-called “chemical imbalance,” you'll find it cannot be measured. There is not one single test that can measure an imbalance in the neurotransmitters of the body – not one. This “imbalance” is nothing more than a theory.

 

As for the priesthood, I have given her blessings, but I simply do not have sufficient power to heal her; or it is not time for her to be healed. Often people are not healed because there is a lesson either for them or someone else to learn that has not been learned. I don't know which answer applies. However, Joseph Smith said that you should continue trying until the person is healed or you are inspired to quit trying.

[The Folk Prophet]

but I simply do not have sufficient power to heal her; 

 

No man does.

[Guest]

Here is the complete quote...

　

...<deleted for brevity>

 

It does not say that we should avoid talking about evil spirits. It is talking specifically about the counterfeits that Satan uses to deceive those who lack discernment. <<emphasis added>>

Yes it did.  You chose to ignore it.

 

This is a perfect example of the primary error of your line of reasoning.  You accuse Eowyn of incomplete quotation or lack of context.  Then you provided the entire quote--which was good.  But then you ignored the lines she provided and only looked at the lines YOU were interested in.

 

Did you notice the period at the end of her portion of the quote?  The second section is NOT a restating of the first section.  It is adding to it.  The first statement stands on its own both in and out of context.  The additional lines do not in any way diminish the fact that it advises us to "avoid" discussion of our personal encounters with evil.  Yet you ignore it.

 

And I don't think it's too big a leap to avoid  stories that others tell of their experiences--if for no other reason than to avoid spreading rumors and urban legends.

 

It is a fact that discussion of anything in that realm is playing with fire.  We might need a bit of that fire (the size of a match) to provide some light on the subject.  But I prefer the light that comes from God that does NOT burn.

 

*********************************************************

As far as women and blessings or women and the priesthood, I don't really care about it.  Maybe some feminists will blast me.  Maybe some chauvinists will as well.  I don't know why others would behave that way.  But at the same time, I don't know why you care about it so much.

 

*********************************************************

The main reason I furrow my brow at people who bring up conspiracy theories is that the ones that are often brought up are the stupidest ones I've ever heard.  There are plenty of REAL conspiracies to talk about.  Yet most people are so stupid and gullible that they are ready to tilt at windmills.

 

Yet I have been able to have informative and logical discussions about real conspiracies with people with informed and good judgment.  And I'm not trying to insult you, JoJo, but I'm telling it like it is.  So far, you don't impress me as someone with good judgment.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Guest

[omegaseamaster75]

This typical traditional LDS response is one I simply do not understand.  The idea seems to be that if you don't think about or talk about evil spirits, then they won't bother you.  This couldn't be farther from reality.  Evil spirits surround us every single second of our lives.  They are responsible for all evil in this world.  They are also responsible for most of the sickness, disease, mental illness, pain and suffering we go through.  It seems that the vast majority of LDS do not understand this.  They think that Satan has no bearing on suffering, yet this has been taught extensively by the prophets and apostles.  The attitude I have observed is that LDS think Satan can only tempt and influence.

 

 

Please document for me proof that evil spirits are the cause of disease, sickness, mental illness, pain and suffering. 

 

I think virus and bacteria cause disease, mental illness in many cases can be attributed to a chemical imbalance, and most often (not always) pain and suffering can be attributed to an individuals poor decision making

[pkstpaul]

Every single day, I see the effects of evil spirits and I have become rather sensitive to their presence.  I have learned that feelings of depression, pain, illness, etc., are often caused by evil spirits.  I can give a dozen quotes on this subject starting with Joseph Smith.  This same thing is taught by a couple dozen church leaders.  The problem with the overwhelming majority of LDS is that they think these ailments have nothing to do with evil spirits.

 

Almost every LDS I have ever talked to feels this way.  The only LDS I have talked to that do understand this are Lamanites; especially islanders.  Their culture understands the relationship of evil spirits and affliction.  It is the modern, sophisticated white culture that doesn't understand and dismisses this relationship and unfortunately, too many LDS are sucked in by the deception. It reminds me of what the Apostle Paul said, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

I don't doubt you and feel there is truth in what you have experienced. It would have been nice to start the thread off with this topic instead of what created controversy.

 

I think you would recognize that your exeriences, although not unique, are rare. It would be wrong to expect the average LDS, or even LDS leader to relate.

 

Given that what you are experiencing is real and given that you have found evidence of Christ's and other's healing, you should continue in faith to fight this and find your answers. But don't be frustrated with the average Mormon not relating.

 

At the same time, I think a balance is needed. You should treat medically what can be treated. Look at alternative medicines.

 

I think it very possible that focusing on the spirits feeds them (feeds your fear). You may just have to learn to live with them. I don't subscribe to the mentality that we have "trials" we have to bear, which so many LDS practically live by. I just don't perceive life that way. The purpose of life is not to suffer trials. The purpose of life is joy. Find joy. Push out evil with good. Seek - really seek - happiness. Paint your rooms yellow. Buy a new house. Take down the dark 1970's panelling. Get a pink car. Whatever it takes to fill your life with pleasant thoughts. Do happy things.

Edited October 8, 2015 by pkstpaul

[Bee Sweet]

All I know is, " The devil made me do it!"

[rewcox]

All I know is, " The devil made me do it!"

Bees only listen to the queen. Drones, well, they will be taken care of. :)

[rewcox]

First, evil spirits

 

On the subject of evil spirits.  Yes, we know they exist because the scriptures tell us they do.  I have noted in my years of observation of other churches (I'm a convert to the LDS Church) that denominations that put a big focus on evil spirits tend to experience them.  For example, Pentecostals and Holiness churches often talk about everything being demonic.  A lady I know who was Pentecostal was obsessed with protecting her family from demonic influences.  She wouldn't let them listen to music, watch TV, go to movies, dance, or do many other things.  Interestingly, she reported that her church had a lot of experiences with evil spirits.  

 

Latter-day saints focus on having the companionship of the Holy Ghost.  Doing so provides a positive orientation that provides a protective influence.  Even though we know there are dark forces out there, we steer toward the light consciously.

 

Second, the subject of women giving blessings

 

There's nothing unusual or mysterious about this.  Praying for the sick and exercising faith in their behalf is effective.  Laying on of hands is not necessary to do this.  Jesus healed the sick from a distance without touching them at all.  He also smeared clay and spittle on the eyes of a blind man to restore his sight.  Elijah told a guy to go wash in a river to be healed.  Faith is what is important.  There is nothing sinful or mysterious in women laying on hands to pray.  They should not pretend it is a priesthood blessing.  The Lord gives us ordinances in forms that add to the sense of order and propriety.  The ordinances are symbolic.  

 

 

Third, conspiracies of the last days.

 

I actually wrote a book (now out-of-print) for Cedar Fort Press about conspiracy theories and looked at them from a scriptural perspective and with amplifying passages from latter-day prophets.  There's nothing particularly uplifting about the topic.  The conclusion of my book, after doing much study on the subject, is that the Lord knows what he's doing and that everything the Church is doing under the direction of living prophets serves to have us be ready for any eventuality.  If you follow the prophet, things will take care of themselves.  You'll have the Spirit to be with you to warn you of what you should specifically do.  Likewise, what the Spirit tells you to do may be different than what God tells your neighbor to do.  The Holy Ghost will orchestrate the resources to meet the challenges.  God's got it covered.  No worries.  Have faith and be positive.  Peter walked on water so long as he looked at Jesus.  When he took his eyes off the Savior and became concerned with the storm, that's when he started sinking.

Thanks.

[Leah]

Please document for me proof that evil spirits are the cause of disease, sickness, mental illness, pain and suffering. 

 

I think virus and bacteria cause disease, mental illness in many cases can be attributed to a chemical imbalance, and most often (not always) pain and suffering can be attributed to an individuals poor decision making

 

I'd like to see this documentation, too.

 

I have MS.  Going by JojoBag's claims, this disease is caused by evil spirits (and to think that the medical world is wasting all that money on researching a cause!).    Soooo...would that mean the cure for MS would be an exorcism?  Get rid of the evil spirit, get rid of the disease?

 

How did the evil spirit give me this disease?  WHY did it give me this disease?  Did I somehow attract this evil spirit and was therefore complicit in getting this disease?

I don't necessarily doubt that there are such things as evil spirits (I'm pretty sure I work with one), but claiming that they are the cause for all the things listed above....not convinced.

[Guest]

Diseases... evil spirits... yeah.

 

Well, the thing is that while evil spirits and the like may be responsible for SOME diseases and disorders, it is the Mt. Everest of painting with a broad brush to say ALL such are due to evil spirits.  And again, not clear thinking on that one.