Conflicted after Stake Conference


Jane_Doe
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I need to vent.  

 

 The topic of all of Stake Conference session tonight was about the centrality of… ward councils.   Speaker after speaker.  For over an hour. 

 

(On one hand I think):  Barely mention of Christ in those talks.  Are we here to talk about God or not?

 

(on the other hand…)  It’s okay, settle down, just one off meeting.

 

Which topic was directly assigned from the First Presendcy (at least according to the Stake President’s talk).  I wish… I wish he would talk about Christ.

 

For the first time in a long time, I feel compelled to take the podium myself, to focus things back to Christ… but my talents for speaking is with the pen and not the podium.  And interrupting the Stake President would be rude. 

 

Really, “rude”???  That’s your excuse? 

 

We are not a consumerism church: we are not here to simply be spoon-fed a perfectly prepared sermon.  Rather, we are here to admister and serve each other in our strengths and weaknesses—even when that weakness a bad topic and poorly delivered. 

 

I blatantly disagree with more than a few things said here tonight.  They aren’t the Gospel, and franky I think he’s very wrong.

 

The Gospel is perfect, the Lord’s servants not so much.

 

I wish he would quote the Gospel, rather he’s quote the Handbook of Instructions for the last five minutes.

 

[break in thoughts]

 

I don’t feel like I belong here: I don’t “fit” for XYZ, and I’m unwilling to pretend to be something I’m not to “fit” (heck, I’m not even willing to wear make up to church!). 

 

But this church is my home, and if I don’t feel “at home”, I need to make it feel that way.  I am just as much here to be nourished by God as the “in” crowd. 

 

But I’m tired.  I’ve tried for so long…

 

I want to help the ward, I want to be involved. 

 

But I don’t have a calling, nor can I take an “every Sunday” calling due to work.  I’ve tried talking to the bishop, but no calling has been assigned.  And there’s a dumb social taboo in Mormonism about actually volunteering for things (trust me, I’ve tried).

 

[break in thoughts]

 

(All of me): I wish… I wish I had someone to talk to. 

 

I left the meeting early.  I couldn’t stay… I know this church is true, I feel it in my bones… but at points I hurt.  I want to go to church… but so frequently it hurts so badly.  I want to be involved… but get rebuffed.  I want to share… but have no voice.  I have questions… but no sanctuary to ask them.

 

Does anyone else feel like this ever?

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In some of the meetings I attend, some of what I hear is wheat, and some sounds like chaff. I don't mind that, that's just how things are. I keep in mind that my chaff may well be someone else's meat. I listen to what's said, make a judgement as to how helpful/useful/informative/interesting it is what I'm hearing, and then based on that judgement, decide the level of care and concentration with which I will continue to listen. I don't expect every meeting to focus solely on topics central to the gospel because in any large organisation, there will always be a diverse range of issues that need to be addressed at any one time.  

 

And if the "official' channels for involvement don't seem to be working the way you'd like, there are always the more direct friend-to-friend approaches that can often yield a multitude of opportunities for valued service. If you don't get called to a calling, then it might help to further strengthen your social networks so that you hear informally when someone is is need and an opportunity for service arises. 

 

And as for being spoon-fed perfectly prepared sermons, I'd argue that that is exactly why we listen to General Conference. 

 

And I've found lds.net to be a great place to ask questions and get lots of really well thought out, articulately expressed answers - with some occasional chaff of course, but that's how things are. 

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You feel you know what the Stake President is supposed to be talking about?  Do I understand correctly?

If you were to take the podium and change the focus it would be more than rude.  It would be apostate.  Think about what spirit would compel such thoughts in someone's mind.  It is the spirit of rebellion, the spirit of the Devil, not the spirit of the Lord.

They were talking about Christ.  Sincerely pray for understanding.

The ward council is how Christ gets things done.  It's the huddle before the play (never a hail Mary).  It's one of the means that miracles happen.

They were talking about Christ the whole time and that is precisely what the Lord is wanting you to hear.  It's completely up to you to feast on the words or to kick against the pricks.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Jane, I understand. I can't imagine why they would spend so much time talking about ward councils, when that affects only a small portion of the congregation.  A large portion of the the audience might NEVER serve on a Ward Council!

 There were a few years where I was really in a dark place (not from sin, but from depression) I really, really needed Christ-centered lessons...and often I sat through the kinds of meetings you describe instead.  I know some will be mortified to hear this, but I went "church shopping" on podcasts.  I really wanted to simply attend a different church, but I knew that would hurt my family, so I used podcasts.  I'm not advocating this approach, but it helped me a lot.  I found one minister in particular that I really liked and listened to a lot of his stuff, and found it very healing.  I didn't agree with everything he said, but I appreciated his Christ-centered messages.  In the end though, I continued attending our church (and eventually stopped listening to those podcasts) because I love the gospel...priesthood, three degrees of glory, modern revelation...I can't find these truths anywhere else.  

Like I said, I'm not suggesting you do this.  I only share to say, I understand your pain and frustration.   

Hold on Jane.  Hold on, things will get better.  It's taken years, but things are getting better for me.  I believe they will get better for you as well.  

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Does anyone else feel like this ever?

 

...Yes, I think most of us have felt like this following some meetings.  Don't even get me started  :rolleyes: 

 

I just look at  it like this - we are a church with a lay ministry and sometimes we bumble along hoping to get it right but often fall short of being as Christlike or eloquent or organised or focused on the Saviour as we could be in our meetings.

 

I am most concerned though that you feel like you have no opportunity to serve in the ward - and that is causing you to feel a bit isolated and lonely in your ward family. Believe me, I do know how you feel as I have been there (and am still there in many ways).

 

But don't worry about that unwritten 'volunteer law' - I am sure that there are many places where your willing heart can find a place to serve until you get a more formal calling.  What about talking to the Primary President and offering to be a subsitute teacher? Or offering to help in Nursery? Or see the Compassionate Service leader in Relief Society and offer to be on call for meals or visits to new mothers or sick members?  Newslettter editor, Noticeboard Specialist (don't even know what that person is called!), offer to do a workshop to teach the YW a skill you have to offer (maybe creative writing?).

 

Just some thoughts... hope you feel happier soon.  

 

 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

 

 

But don't worry about that unwritten 'volunteer law' - I am sure that there are many places where your willing heart can find a place to serve until you get a more formal calling.  

 

That gives me an idea...they might just forget that unwritten volunteer law, if you volunteer for something they have difficulty filling...like the Boy Scout Committee.  

I also like the idea of offering yourself as a substitute teacher...not only in Primary, but talk to the Relief Society, Young Womens and Sunday School.  

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That gives me an idea...they might just forget that unwritten volunteer law, if you volunteer for something they have difficulty filling...like the Boy Scout Committee.  

I also like the idea of offering yourself as a substitute teacher...not only in Primary, but talk to the Relief Society, Young Womens and Sunday School.  

 

Oh yes, pretty much any of the auxiliaries need people to help out in various ways. As a Primary Pres I am always short of a teacher or two every Sunday and often end up taking classes myself while a counsellor does Sharing Time. If I had a willing helper to fill in regularly, I would shower them with eternal gratitude, praise and occasional chocolate :)

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A couple random thoughts because, well, that's just the way my mind works... :D

 

First, wearing makeup is no more a sign of membership in the true church than wearing no makeup is a sign of rebellion. ;)

 

Second, to paraphrase Jacob 2:7-9

 

And also it grieveth me that I must use so much dullness of speech concerning your councils, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God; And it supposeth me that they have come up hither to hear the pleasing word of God, yea, the word which healeth the wounded soul. Wherefore, it burdeneth my soul that I should be constrained, because of the strict commandment which I have received from the leadership of God's church, to admonish you concerning your councils.

 

Third, many is the meeting for which the main purpose (to me) seemed at the time to be enduring to the end.

 

That said, I learned long ago I'm in church for me and nobody else - and not everything is geared to me. If I want sacred the temple is first, home second, church third. I shouldn't be in any of them except to be near the Lord - I hope your home is like that. Tired? Yeah, been there too. Fast, pray and put myself to work in the service of God - stepping up my home teaching with the pleasing word of God, working with the missionaries, privately sharing my testimony of Christ with others - all while being obedient, and being where I was supposed to be - no matter how dull the meeting was :) 

Edited by Average Joe
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I admit, I had to wonder what's going on with ward councils to warrant such a focus. I do understand issues must be addressed, but one does worry at times about Christ becoming a forgotten footnote. I'm sure most if not all speakers had the best intentions, and perhaps many were edifice and were given what they needed. You, on the other hand, needed a Christ lesson.

My advice is not to ignore or condemn our leaders but to take iniative for our own spiritual needs. Seek the scriptures, old talks, uplifting words of prophets and apostles. I don't think the talks of wards, stakes, and even general conference are meant to be all we seek.

I sympathize, Jane.

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I ask this as a sincerely concerned sister in the Gospel: what other kinds of sites have you been reading re: Mormonism, other than lds.net?

 

Online sites about Mormonism?  LDS.org...

 

These feelings aren't birthed from hanging out on anti-websites.  Rather, I've been trying to be more studious about my walk with God, contemplating taking out my endowments.  

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I only asked because those are the kinds of questions my brother started asking, after joining forums of ex- and anti-Mormons. Those places can take concerns and twist and inflate them into spiritual atomic bombs. 

 

Having questions isn't bad. Being bothered isn't bad. It's what we do with those feelings that counts, and I'm happy to hear you're not seeking out those who want to make you miserable like unto themselves. 

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I just remembered an article I read last night, about how the Handbook is more than just a set of instructions. As said before, it IS centered on Christ, because it's how things are to be done in His order; because it's centered on how to bring about the objectives of His church. It was in the Ensign:

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/09/church-handbooks-the-written-order-of-things?lang=eng

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sister doe,

 

What you can do is to make an appt with your SP and tell him how much it hurt and how much you kept wishing it was about Christ, and how badly you feel because you do not have a calling (limited because of your circumstances) and have been shut off from volunteering --- though if I brought this up, I'd want to be able to report good VTing efforts too.

 

I don't know if there was a way to convey what the SP was inspired to discuss that more directly includes the teachings of Jesus or not, but  an ideal of finding a way to link all topics to Him might be something SP could get behind.

 

For the average member, my guess is that most think it all is about Christ, so long as the person speaking has sought inspiration from Him about what to say.   After all, He is quite capable of inspiration saying take up the whole conference session on councils so they will work at all levels better so you can do My work like I need you to do it.

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Our organization, The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder day Saints is a way of life. Its not a once a week feel good gathering. We address and support each other in all aspects of human growth and development from a spiritual perspective as it relates to the gospel taught by Jesus Christ and as it continues to be revealed by our modern day prophets

 

As humans were are left here on earth to figure out and solve societal/religious issues by ourselves, all the answers are not written out in the Bible taught by Christ. That Stake conference meeting was an opportunity for the SP to address problems in the stake as it concerns the members and leaders of that stake.

 

I also believe that we are responsible for our own gospel learning, are you reading the scriptures every day? You dont need a stake conference meeting to remind you about Jesus christ teachings. To be quite honest, I am a terrible reader, I often find myself youtubing random pastors and listening to their sermons as my way of learning the bible teachings. 

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I would also like to point out that...  If you think you are not affected by the Ward Council (wither functional or dysfunctional) then you truly don't understand what they do (or are suppose to do).  You have just as much interest in having a well trained council as those on the council do (or should) in learning their function.

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You feel you know what the Stake President is supposed to be talking about?  Do I understand correctly?

If you were to take the podium and change the focus it would be more than rude.  It would be apostate.  Think about what spirit would compel such thoughts in someone's mind.  It is the spirit of rebellion, the spirit of the Devil, not the spirit of the Lord.

They were talking about Christ.  Sincerely pray for understanding.

The ward council is how Christ gets things done.  It's the huddle before the play (never a hail Mary).  It's one of the means that miracles happen.

They were talking about Christ the whole time and that is precisely what the Lord is wanting you to hear.  It's completely up to you to feast on the words or to kick against the pricks.

 

 

The ward council is an administrative tool by which Christ can work (He works other ways too).  If there was one talk focused on strengthening that tool, that'd be cool.  But to focus an entire conference focused on just one tool in His hands, with little mention of the Master Himself?  Why talk about just one reflection of Him, and not Himself directly?

 

It bothers me.

 

Furthermore, it's not just my stake with this theme, but evidently ordered from the First Presidency for other stakes too (indicated by my stake president, and I've heard the same topic from friends in other states).  Maybe other stakes will do things differently but... this bothers me.

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But don't worry about that unwritten 'volunteer law' - I am sure that there are many places where your willing heart can find a place to serve until you get a more formal calling.  What about talking to the Primary President and offering to be a subsitute teacher? Or offering to help in Nursery? Or see the Compassionate Service leader in Relief Society and offer to be on call for meals or visits to new mothers or sick members?  Newslettter editor, Noticeboard Specialist (don't even know what that person is called!), offer to do a workshop to teach the YW a skill you have to offer (maybe creative writing?).

 

Just some thoughts... hope you feel happier soon.  

 

 

Thank you lagerthaaz.

 

Our primary does always need subs (I'm pretty sure that's universal)... but my deep spiritual need is fellowship/bonding with adult believers, and that's not being a primary sub.  And yes, I know God works in mysterious ways, and turns weaknesses into strengths.  But, we're also supposed to grow in this life- to master and know ourselves, and I feel the deficit keenly.  

 

I'd like to be able to bring my strength to the ward- family history, member missionary, outside-the-boxness, gospel study, etc.  But... I feel frustrated that LDS culture says I'm supposed to wait until my over-worked bishop thinks of something for me.  What's wrong with me taking incatitive, and stepping up to the plate?  Other than the entire cultural bulwark against it.  

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My advice is not to ignore or condemn our leaders but to take iniative for our own spiritual needs. Seek the scriptures, old talks, uplifting words of prophets and apostles. I don't think the talks of wards, stakes, and even general conference are meant to be all we seek.

I sympathize, Jane.

 

Thanks Backroads, I spent today doing that.  

 

I just... what's the point of going to meetings, if all of my spiritual strength comes from individual study?  Part of me says its to help others in their walk with God, but I feel so barred from doing that.

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sister doe,

 

What you can do is to make an appt with your SP and tell him how much it hurt and how much you kept wishing it was about Christ, and how badly you feel because you do not have a calling (limited because of your circumstances) and have been shut off from volunteering --- though if I brought this up, I'd want to be able to report good VTing efforts too.

 

I don't know if there was a way to convey what the SP was inspired to discuss that more directly includes the teachings of Jesus or not, but  an ideal of finding a way to link all topics to Him might be something SP could get behind.

 

For the average member, my guess is that most think it all is about Christ, so long as the person speaking has sought inspiration from Him about what to say.   After all, He is quite capable of inspiration saying take up the whole conference session on councils so they will work at all levels better so you can do My work like I need you to do it.

 

 I don't know... for all my frustration, I in no way blame the SP- he's  imperfect human doing his best.  Likewise, I don't blame the bishop- he's overworked trying to keep order in a ward where >50% of the faces change every year.  And I am a quiet introvert very practiced at keeping a low profile.  I don't blame them... so it seems strange writing a letter about a hurt they didn't cause.

 

On the bright side, my VT is amazing (I only have one right now).  But she would be very uncomfortable with this.

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Jane_Doe -- I've been thinking about your post throughout the day and I wanted to share my thoughts. I know that what I say and how I say it may come across as harsh, but I think you should consider carefully. The problem, as I see it, is fairly fully in your attitude and your attitude alone. Like I said...I know that sounds harsh. But here's the deal. The objective of the church is to bring souls unto Christ. The implication that the only, or even best way to do this is to simply mention Christ a lot is mistaken and entirely unfair. Anyone who approaches worship with this attitude is only hurting themselves. It would be like unto discarding any scripture that didn't discuss Christ directly.

 

All scripture comes from Christ though. So, likewise, does all that the church is and does. Someone else mentioned something along these lines. This is Christ's church, Christ's programs, Christ's policies, and Christ's Handbook of Instructions. Discussing these things is with the plain, and clear intent of bring people unto Christ, if they will only humble themselves, listen, and apply.

 

I am not saying that there are no meetings where the focus could have and should have been more on Christ. This one may well have been one of those. I can't speak to that. But we cannot control that. Nor is it our place to judge when our leaders are making decisions as to how to approach their wards and stakes, etc., and the approaches they use to try and inspire growth in their congregations. But if their congregations will not hearken to their leaders and their approaches then that growth cannot occur. We need to humble ourselves and look inside ourselves to apply that which we are given by our leaders in order to make ourselves more Christlike. And this remains absolutely true whether the sermons specifically mention Christ or not. He is implicit in all. As I said, some meetings could certainly stand to mention Him more, but if they do not, it holds no bearing on the ability we have to apply accordingly and to draw closer to Christ through the teachings given us.

 

Consider: If I exhort someone to spend more time reading their scriptures, but fail to mention the specific idea of Christ in that exhortation, am I teaching Christ or not? I clearly am. The scriptures testify of Him, and moreover, He commanded us to search the scriptures. It is His exhortation. If I exhort someone to fast, pray, home or visit teach, serve, keep better records, live providently, treat others with kindness, etc... Is it not the same. Are these not the teachings of Christ? Does my approach become invalid if I fail to apply His name directly to each exhortation? And is the listener not able to learn and grow closer to Christ just the same as if I had mentioned His name directly in each point by following His gospel, regardless?

 

I hope my point is clear. You can find Christ in these meetings if you will humble yourself and look for Him instead of putting what His gospel is and is not into your own terms and then agonizing whenever something doesn't seem to fit into it. For example, your statement that you wish they had spoken more of "the gospel" instead of quoting the Handbook of Instructions is missing out on the plain truth that the Handbook of Instructions are as surely a part of the gospel as are the scriptures, the teachings of the prophets, prayer, ordinances, and hymns. But you have put up some sort of wall, apparently, where to you this is outside the gospel and therefore less worthy of attention and time. This is mistaken.

 

The church certainly isn't perfect. But that is very much beyond our control. What is within our control is our attitudes, our humility, and our willingness.

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