Utah Mormons


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I think it's a open secret in every non-Utah ward to PLAYFULLY make fun of Utah Mormons.

 

All the Utah Mormons I've met chuckle at it, because they know it's all in good fun. 

Whenever we get a new person from Utah in my ward, I always say something like "Where is this Utah? Why do you Mormons flock there?" 

So far, everyones been cool with it. 

 

All the families from Utah I've met have been truly remarkable. 

 

I grew up outside of Utah (Alaska) but have lived in Utah since college/marriage.

 

You are right there are great families in Utah, and outside of Utah in the church.  However, to be honest after a while of culturally becoming a "Utah Mormon", I have to say the playful (snide) remarks got to be rather annoying.  You know how many times I've visited a non-Utah ward, told people I'm from Utah and been told, to my face, "Oh, that's a shame", "Oh that's too bad", "Oh you seem like such a good Mormon".  Yes, those are direct quotes and I've been told those and similar things many times.

 

"All the Utah Mormons I've met chuckle at it, because they know it's all in good fun."

 

This, of course, is the absolutely worst kind of justification.  Nobody likes being labeled.  Nobody likes being made fun of.  Nobody likes snide remarks.  Your comment is the kind of statement used to justify unkind behavior.

 

So I'll add my $.02 that I also hate the "Utah Mormon" label.

 

To the OP: I'm sorry your experience at your Utah ward wasn't better.  Regardless of whether it happens solely here in Utah or occurs elsewhere, it is still unfortunate.  Our ward does pretty good at welcoming people, but then we have a near constant turnover of people moving into and out of the ward so I guess we are a bit more used to it.  I can see a ward that isn't used to new people not handling things overly well.  Although I would like to share this.  We had a couple move in a while ago who was older (we also have a small retirement community).  The husband came 20 minutes early to church every week for a couple of months, stood at the door and greeted everyone as they arrived for church.  He introduced himself to everyone, telling him he was new to the ward.  Now I am a bit introverted and so that would be a bit outside of my comfort zone, but I have to admit everyone knew who he was.

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I worked with someone who lived in Utah during his High School years and even though he was not LDS had acquired a bias against non-Utah Mormons. He felt Mormons outside of Utah were too goodie-goodie and uptight and Utah Mormons were more relaxed about their beliefs and accepting of others...LOL  The fact that growing up outside of Utah and all my best friends were non-LDS had no bearing I suppose. 

 

I thought I'd mention it because I had never heard of that before.

 

I personally have noticed that generally people who grow up in high percentage LDS areas have different perspectives then LDS who grow up in low percentage LDS areas. This is pretty obvious, so I never really get disappointed anymore when I run into an LDS person out in the world and he's less enthused then me that we share beliefs or feels no bond. 

 

Having traveled most of the States I can say that Utah, Idaho and Arizona are gems and if I had to live in a landlocked State I would not hesitate to live there. The people there are wonderful. My favorite people were from the Midwest and Texas and the coldest people I've encountered are from San Francisco and New York...and while I love the northwest, Seattle\Portland (my home town) is getting worse.

Edited by Windseeker
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 Like I said, FP-knock yourself out. Argue and debate with them until you are blue in the face. I don't care. 

 

But I stand by what I said 100%. The best way to conquer anti-LDS garbage is to ignore it. 

 

Yep. Them folks being made fun of shouldn't be getting all uppity and taking offense. That's where the real problem lies. If people would just put up with all the prejudice against them the world would be a better place.

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Guest MormonGator

Since when???  Maybe MormonGator doesn't get upset when lies are told about him...  But we have a whole legal system around Sander and Libel showing that a whole lot of people do care

 So someone comes up to me and says "Gator, you are a horrible bigot who beats small children" 

Why would I get angry? I know it's not true. So, who cares? I won't even dignify it with a response. I'll ignore it. 

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Sorry everyone. I just don't get it. Why let them bother you? 

no, none of this makes me a bad LDS. Like I mentioned, I'll defend my faith to the end but if someone is saying something insulting and totally wrong about the church that is based in ignorance and stupidity I let it pass.

 

I know it's not true, so why dignify it with a response? 

Edited by MormonGator
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Yep. Them folks being made fun of shouldn't be getting all uppity and taking offense. That's where the real problem lies. If people would just put up with all the prejudice against them the world would be a better place.

 That's not what I said, and you know that. If you want to draw the sword at the slightest offense, than great. It's your life FP. 

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 That's not what I said, and you know that. If you want to draw the sword at the slightest offense, than great. It's your life FP. 

 

And it's your life to bury your head in the sand when ever anything offensive is said. Do as you will. But don't tell me when and when I cannot find something offensive. I am a Utah Mormon who works very, very hard at the gospel, serving others, befriending my neighbors, and building up Zion. I do not take kindly to others coming in an insulting my culture, even if there is some truth to it. It is wrong behavior and should be decried any time it occurs.

 

As other's have expressed, it is a fairly constant sentiment coming from certain holier-than-thou, I-live-outside-Utah-so-I'm-better type folk and it wears excessively thin. It is inappropriate thinking, inappropriate speaking, and entirely un-Christian.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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And it's your life to bury your head in the sand when ever anything offensive is said. Do as you will. But don't tell me when and when I cannot find something offensive. I am a Utah Mormon who works very, very hard at the gospel, serving others, befriending my neighbors, and building up Zion. I do not take kindly to others coming in an insulting my culture, even if there is some truth to it. It is wrong behavior and should be decried any time it occurs.

 

As other's have expressed, it is a fairly constant sentiment coming from certain holier-than-thou, I-live-outside-Utah-so-I'm-better type folk and it wears excessively thin. It is inappropriate thinking, inappropriate speaking, and entirely un-Christian.

 I'm not telling you that all my friend. You have every right to find whatever you wish offensive. If you want too, go for it. 

My concern is that it will hurt you. Eventually when you find everything offensive, you begin to lose the spirt. You'll say "This guy didn't smile at me or shake my hand-what does he really mean?" or, you'll say "What? This person said he didn't understand 'scripture X'-he may be a heathen!' Or, you'll (and not you FP-even though you don't like me, I have nothing against you at all) think "This lady asked a question. How dare she!" 

 

 In fact, even Thomas Monson himself said that getting offended is a choice. 

And for the record, I don't think I'm holier than anyone. Except FSU fans. Guilty as charged. 

Edited by MormonGator
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 Here is where we will totally disagree: 

If it's mean to insult, then don't take it as such. Ignore them. Don't give them the pleasure of knowing they hurt your feelings. 

It's not true, so who cares?

 

The thing that rubs people the wrong way is that you won't accept that labeling people, "Utah Mormons" is unkind and you keep coming up with justification for why it's OK.  It was "in good humor".  Saying things like: 'YOU shouldn't let them bother you.  YOU should ignore them.'  You seem to want other people to change their response to bad behavior instead of stopping the bad behavior.

 

You've been told it is rude and bad behavior.  Why do you insist on justifying it?

 

The real crux of the problem here is that we as saints should be "one".  This kind of divisiveness serves no purpose.  There shouldn't be "Utah Mormons" and whatever the implied opposite is ("Non-Utah Mormons?").  It reminds me of 4 Nephi when they began to divide among themselves and started calling themselves "Nephites" and "Lamanites" and such.

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The thing that rubs people the wrong way is that you won't accept that labeling people, "Utah Mormons" is unkind and you keep coming up with justification for why it's OK. 

I didn't say it was ok. In fact, I think non members use it as a stick to beat all of us LDS with it. 

I'm justifying ignoring it. I think it's stupid and offensive if people get really bad about it, but yes, usually I shrug it off. I guess I'm cynical because no, you can't change the minds of those who really hate us.  

 

There is a time and place to address certain LDS critique but we really should turn the other cheek sometimes too. 

The sad part is that anti-LDS critics are only hurting themselves. Usually hate sort of just consumes itself. Think of Regan and Goneril from King Lear. 

 

Romans 12:21 comes to mind. Overcome evil with love. 

Edited by MormonGator
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 So someone comes up to me and says "Gator, you are a horrible bigot who beats small children" 

Why would I get angry? I know it's not true. So, who cares? I won't even dignify it with a response. I'll ignore it. 

 

MormonGator have you stop beating your wife  and kids yet?

 

You know it is not even close to true so you shrug it off... and then the next thing you know you are being shunned and everyone is treating you like a wife and child beater...  When that happens you might have wished you didn't just shrug it off and maybe stood your ground and defended yourself...  But it it is much to late now.

 

You might say you don't care what people think of you... I am I reasonably sure you do care how people act toward you... And how people act toward you is influenced heavily by how they think of you.

Edited by estradling75
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MormonGator have you stop beating your wife  and kids yet?

 

So you shrug it off... and then the next thing you know you are being shunned and everyone is treating you like a wife and child beater...  When that happens you might have wished you didn't just shrug it off and maybe stood your ground and defended yourself...  But it it is much to late now.

 

You might say you don't care what people think of you... I am I reasonably sure you do care how people act toward you... And how people act toward you is influenced heavily by how they think of you.

 I get what you are saying, and I am sure you are right. Perhaps subconsciously I do care what people think of me. However, I'm very vocal about my politics and religion, and I often times do not think about what others are saying about me. Perhaps I do care, but I don't think about it a lot. 

That said, my friends know that I don't beat LadyGator (except in Mario Kart) and sadly, I have no kids. So if people think I do-how can I change that? Maybe they'll think I'm protesting too much. 

I can't change your mind. If you think I'm a jerk there is precious little I can do to change it. 

Edited by MormonGator
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 I get what you are saying, and I am sure you are right. Perhaps subconsciously I do care what people think of me. 

That said, my friends know that I don't beat LadyGator (except in Mario Kart) and sadly, I have no kids. So if people think I do-how can I change that? Maybe they'll think I'm protesting too much. 

 

If someone is seeking to do damage to you there is not much you can do (baring legal action if it rises to that) but to make sure that your side of the story is known...  This will not convince those trying to hurt you, but it will help those that don't know any better and are trying to make such a determination about you.  Having both side out there at least gives you a chance among those willing to consider all the details.

 

For example I am a non Utah Mormon... if all I heard was Utah Mormon horror stories then I would have never wanted to move to Utah..  But since since people have spoken up against the stereotype, I know that my(and my families) adjustment is going to be more affected by our attitudes and expectations then external factors as individual ward members or ward culture    

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If someone is seeking to do damage to you there is not much you can do (baring legal action if it rises to that) but to make sure that your side of the story is known...  This will not convince those trying to hurt you, but it will help those that don't know any better and are trying to make such a determination about you.  Having both side out there at least gives you a chance among those willing to consider all the details.

 

For example I am a non Utah Mormon... if all I heard was Utah Mormon horror stories then I would have never wanted to move to Utah..  But since since people have spoken up against the stereotype, I know that my(and my families) adjustment is going to be more affected by our attitudes and expectations then external factors as individual ward members or ward culture    

 Makes perfect sense. Thank you. I'm still not 100% with you, but I see where you are coming from a lot better. 

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It would be a lot easier to believe these statements:

 

 Here is where we will totally disagree: 

If it's mean to insult, then don't take it as such. Ignore them. Don't give them the pleasure of knowing they hurt your feelings. 

It's not true, so who cares?

 

 So someone comes up to me and says "Gator, you are a horrible bigot who beats small children" 

Why would I get angry? I know it's not true. So, who cares? I won't even dignify it with a response. I'll ignore it. 

 

 

If you didn't then make these statements replying to mischaracterizations (including dignifying the lie that you beat your wife and children with a response!):

 

 That's not what I said, and you know that. If you want to draw the sword at the slightest offense, than great. It's your life FP. 

 

 

 I'm not telling you that all my friend. You have every right to find whatever you wish offensive. If you want too, go for it. 
 

...

And for the record, I don't think I'm holier than anyone. Except FSU fans. Guilty as charged. 

 

 

I didn't say it was ok. In fact, I think non members use it as a stick to beat all of us LDS with it. 

I'm justifying ignoring it. I think it's stupid and offensive if people get really bad about it, but yes, usually I shrug it off. I guess I'm cynical because no, you can't change the minds of those who really hate us.  

 

There is a time and place to address certain LDS critique but we really should turn the other cheek sometimes too. 

The sad part is that anti-LDS critics are only hurting themselves. Usually hate sort of just consumes itself. Think of Regan and Goneril from King Lear. 

 

Romans 12:21 comes to mind. Overcome evil with love. 

 

 

That said, my friends know that I don't beat LadyGator (except in Mario Kart) and sadly, I have no kids. So if people think I do-how can I change that? Maybe they'll think I'm protesting too much. 

I can't change your mind. If you think I'm a jerk there is precious little I can do to change it. 

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It would be a lot easier to believe these statements:

 

 

 

 

If you didn't then make these statements replying to mischaracterizations (including dignifying the lie that you beat your wife and children with a response!):

 May sound it, huh? I'm sorry if I did, it's all on me. Maybe I'm not clear. My bad. I'm not perfect. 

 

That said, I still stand by what I said. I was trying to explain my point, which is different than taking offense to everyone who says anything about being LDS.

 

 My apologies if I wasn't clear. Like I said, it's all on me. My bad. 

Edited by MormonGator
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I didn't say it was ok. In fact, I think non members use it as a stick to beat all of us LDS with it.

 

Actually you did imply it was OK:

 

All the Utah Mormons I've met chuckle at it, because they know it's all in good fun

...

 

So far, everyones been cool with it.

 

The implication in your statements "everyones been cool with it", that "it's all in good fun" is that it is OK. 

 

I'm justifying ignoring it. I think it's stupid and offensive if people get really bad about it, but yes, usually I shrug it off. I guess I'm cynical because no, you can't change the minds of those who really hate us.  

 

There is a time and place to address certain LDS critique but we really should turn the other cheek sometimes too.

 

That is exactly my point.  You keep addressing why everyone else should ignore it instead of addressing whether or not you should be saying it. It's really easy for the person giving offense to encourage the other person to turn the other cheek.

 

Look I get you may not have know that some people find the term derogatory.  But now you do know.  The question should really be: now what?  Do I keep using the term and darned be anyone who gets offended or do I respect that it offends others and change?

 

Because a lot of you posts feel like you're taking the former position. 

 

 

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There's a story about a ship's crew that happened to stop at a desert island and found an old castaway, living there alone.  Before rescuing him they let the castaway take them around the island and show them everything he'd built. 

 

Pointing to one rudimentary structure, he announced:  "This is the hut I built for myself to live in."

 

Pointing to another, more elaborate structure, he announced:  "This is the church I built for myself to worship in."

 

The ship's crew then noticed a third, large-but-dilapidated building and questioned the castaway about it. 

 

"Oh, that", he said, gazing at the crumbling structure with disgust.  "That is the church I used to go to!!!"

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Funny....  I just moved to Utah...  And the Ward which has the house which we are under contract on has pulled us right in and made us feel welcome... Even though we are not officially there yet.

The ward we built our house in in Utah years back did the same. Our bishop had me lined up and interviewed for a call before our house was even done being built, and he and his daughter helped us move in.

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 Makes perfect sense. Thank you. I'm still not 100% with you, but I see where you are coming from a lot better. 

Sorry, you have to give 100% or you'll continue to be shouted down.

 

You all know...I believe that the fact the saying is easily recognized is because it is easily idenfiable; meaning people understand it. It may be that many of you are offended by it, but people use it because they believe it.

 

I personally don't think of Utah Mormon as a personality trait (like rudeness). I think of the culture created when you have a majority rule in a neighborhood or town. You can't deny it creates a culture. That discussion has been in the forum before. One woman came here because she was doing an anthropology paper and wanted evidence of the cultural impact of Utah Mormons. I followed up with her. She got an A on her paper.

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Sorry, you have to give 100% or you'll continue to be shouted down.

 

 

 Oh I undertand completely. No worries at all. Like I said, I totally understand where everyone is coming from and I apologize if I wasn't clear. Shout down all you want. I'll stand alone on this. 

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This thread topic is the worst kind of blatant and unfair prejudice. Shame.

Take it as you will. In some places outside of Utah, some in Utah are perceived as taking the Church for granted. Call that unkind, uncharitable, prejudiced, or whatever you will, but my wife was raised for part of her formative years in Utah, and has somewhat of a similar opinion. She is grateful that her family moved to other states when she was a teenager where she had to learn to find and stand up for her testimony, and be different. (I'm *not* saying such a thing can't be done in Utah.)

 

Call that pride or arrogance if you wish. She is, however, reasonably humble and down to earth.

Edited by hagoth
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Take it as you will. In some places outside of Utah, some in Utah are perceived as taking the Church for granted. Call that unkind, uncharitable, prejudiced, or whatever you will, but my wife was raised for part of her formative years in Utah, and has somewhat of a similar opinion. She is grateful that her family moved to other states when she was a teenager where she had to learn to find and stand up for her testimony, and be different. (I'm *not* saying such a thing can't be done in Utah.)

 

Call that pride or arrogance if you wish. She is, however, reasonably humble and down to earth.

 

Ah, yes. Reasonably and humbly declaring a culture as "the worst". That makes it all right then.

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I can see when feathers have been sufficiently ruffled. I didn't realize there were people who truly bought into negative stereotypes of Mormons from Utah (you see, that's politically correct to rearrange phrasing so it actually says the same thing but it's no longer offensive for some reason), at least not in sufficient number for this kind of tizzy. Utah does have a unique culture and you can celebrate that or you can get your panties in a bunch over it. Your choice.

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