Utah Mormons


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Posted · Hidden by Just_A_Guy, September 23, 2015 - Duplicate
Hidden by Just_A_Guy, September 23, 2015 - Duplicate

I can see when feathers have been sufficiently ruffled. I didn't realize there were people who truly bought into negative stereotypes of Mormons from Utah (you see, that's politically correct to rearrange phrasing so it actually says the same thing but it's no longer offensive for some reason), at least not in sufficient number for this kind of tizzy. Utah does have a unique culture and you can celebrate that or you can get your panties in a bunch over it. Your choice.

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Posted · Hidden by Just_A_Guy, September 23, 2015 - Duplicate
Hidden by Just_A_Guy, September 23, 2015 - Duplicate

I can see when feathers have been sufficiently ruffled. I didn't realize there were people who truly bought into negative stereotypes of Mormons from Utah (you see, that's politically correct to rearrange phrasing so it actually says the same thing but it's no longer offensive for some reason), at least not in sufficient number for this kind of tizzy. Utah does have a unique culture and you can celebrate that or you can get your panties in a bunch over it. Your choice.

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Don't like a stereo type?  How about we live above it rather than get offended.

 

It's a natural to simplify and categorize all the massive amount of feelings and experience we gain in this life, be it right or wrong. Even the savior acknowledged stereotypes and used them in his teachings (see Good Samaritan).

 

It would be a grand thing to do away with stereotypes because we also know they often miss the mark, but if we find ourselves unjustly grouped for one reason or another perhaps the highest thing we could do is see it as a call to do better, break the mold, increase our understand, patience and love.

 

Joseph Smith was often wrongly accused and rather than acting like a victim he saw it a call to better himself. 

Edited by Windseeker
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Guest MormonGator

 

Joseph Smith was often wrongly accused and rather than acting like a victim he saw it a call to better himself. 

So true. It may sound weird, but I admired Smith before I was a Mormon. I admire him more now. 

 

I think Smith was not only a prophet but one of the greatest American theologians of all time, by far. 

 

And non-LDS who disagree with me should read his absolutely brilliant King Follett discourse. I read that before I read the book of Mormon!  

Edited by MormonGator
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Perhaps the term is too broad, but the meaning of it is not. Based on my experience, it is any member living anywhere in the world that is so entrenched in their own comfort zone and their spot in the pride cycle that they are both unable and unwilling to notice, much less try to understand or accept, a person whose life is not complimentary to their own as they see it. Most often these are people who never left their home state except for their mission or honeymoon. In my experience, there are more of them living close together in Utah than anywhere else in the world. (Several countries in Europe, Japan, three different congregations in Quebec and British Columbia, and in 14 of the 39 states I have visited or lived in.) The considered opinion and theory of my friends and family who have lived or are currently living here, is that these members have decided, subconsciously or not, that the church HQ is right up the road, so the Church can take care of its members so they don't really have to bother. in other places you may get small pockets of members like this, but in Utah they make up almost entire wards.

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Take it as you will. In some places outside of Utah, some in Utah are perceived as taking the Church for granted. Call that unkind, uncharitable, prejudiced, or whatever you will, but my wife was raised for part of her formative years in Utah, and has somewhat of a similar opinion. She is grateful that her family moved to other states when she was a teenager where she had to learn to find and stand up for her testimony, and be different. (I'm *not* saying such a thing can't be done in Utah.)

 

Call that pride or arrogance if you wish. She is, however, reasonably humble and down to earth.

 

Funny... one of the reasons we decided to move here was so that our kids no longer have to stand alone,,,

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Don't like a stereo type?  How we live above it rather than get offended.

 

Right...so if someone says Jews are all greedy and miserly, the best response the Jews should have is to stop being so greedy and miserly?

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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Right...so if someone says Jews are all greedy and miserly, the best response the Jews should have to stop being so greedy and miserly?

 Actually many Jews in media (Mel Brooks?) make jokes about it, in all fairness. They know the stereotype and they usually chuckle about it. 

I am very short (5'7" barely with platform shoes) and I weigh 150 pounds soaking wet. I'm also an Englishmen. I can tell you some of the best scrawny little Englishmen jokes in the world! Want to hear some?   

 

When someone finds out I am LDS they usually make cracks about polygamy. I respond by saying "Sure! I'm accepting applications for wives number 4-12. Just don't tell wife number 1"  So far it's opened people up. 

Again, just my perspective. Sure it's different. 

Edited by MormonGator
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 Actually most Jews I know make jokes about it, in all fairness. They know the stereotype and they usually chuckle about it. 

 

When someone finds out I am LDS they usually make cracks about polygamy. I respond by saying "Sure! I'm accepting applications for wives number 4-12. Just don't tell wife number 1"  

 

Your view has been noted, and I even accept that it is viable as a potential response. It does not, in any way, justify the rudeness of calling Utah Mormons "the worst".

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Your view has been noted, and I even accept that it is viable as a potential response. It does not, in any way, justify the rudeness of calling Utah Mormons "the worst".

 No of course not. I never said Utah Mormons were "the worst" and if someone does, well it shows poorly on them, doesn't it? 

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Blanket statements and stereotypes are always unfair because very often they're untrue when applied to individuals.

But when we latch onto stereotypes we tend to notice situations and people that confirm the stereotype. So maybe a lot of what we choose to see and focus on becomes reality for us. But does that actually make it true?

Some have said "Utah Mormons are the worst kind of Mormon." They can probably tell stories and cite statistics to back up that point of view. To them I'd like to say that it is equally true that Utah Mormons are the very *best* Mormons! Didn't President Monson grow up in Utah? Aren't there more operating Temples in Utah than in any other geographical area found in any other single country in the world? Aren't Utah missions still some of the highest baptising missions in the world? How can that be if Utah is only populated by wishy-washy lukewarm Mormons?

Edited by theSQUIDSTER
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Funny... one of the reasons we decided to move here was so that our kids no longer have to stand alone,,,

 

Two points:

  1. It's nice for youth to have some peers that support them in their beliefs.  But, I don't think that's a reason to move to UT.  You don't necessarily find better peer support in UT than elsewhere.  Utah, just like outside of Utah, can vary drastically from place to place.  The biggest challenge for many UT youth is the HUGE great and spacious building made up of those that supposedly share their religion.  However, where you should live and what's best for your family is a decision for the parents with consultation from the Lord.  If He led you there, then it's good that you went.  There are many good people there.
  2. It's actually a good thing if a child can learn to stand alone.  Think about the plan of salvation and the Fall.  Experiencing adversity and trials is absolutely necessary for developing spiritual strength.  Youth must question their religion instead of just following the crowd in order to discover truth.  If you don't seek, you won't find.
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It reflects upon the speaker who speaks ill of others, in any case, Utah or Mormons or otherwise.

 

In our Los Angeles area ward, we like Utah Mormons as everyone has a foothold of some type there, relatives, roots, etc.  And make frequent visits to Utah.

I like Utah as I want to move there. 

Most of the missionaries from other areas like the idea of Utah, and living among nothing but Mormons, as they are a minority where they come from.

I'm like the other mentioned above.  I get to services 20 minutes early and greet and introduce to everyone.  They have started to believe I'm now one of the elders of the church or something as they have started asking questions etc.

As if I would know the answers.

 

However, in 5 months I have become so Mormon that it shows. 

I walked into the Tabernacle in SLC yesterday and one of the missionary sisters greeted me with "good morning, brother."

 

But then she said "you still have your red dot on from the Temple"  They give you dots in the Temple to indicate you have been checked in.

 

In St George Sunday the priesthood was talking about an old guy that had recently passed away.

He used to ride a bicycle and go around visiting all the members.  One family told that they moved into the ward and were just unpacking and here he came on his bicycle to welcome them. 

 

So I think it all depends on the who and how and when, and you have to do your part, also.

dc

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Right...so if someone says Jews are all greedy and miserly, the best response the Jews should have is to stop being so greedy and miserly?

 

The best response probably wouldn't be to whine, cry, try to publicly shame and fire the person who said it. 

 

In your example I think the response should be that Jews are prosperous because they save and don't go into debt.

 

When people tell me that Mormons are cliquey I usually agree and explain why that might be so in a way they can relate too. 

 

...or you could be like the Muslim guy who started a TV station to dispel Muslim stereotypes and then beheaded his estranged wife.

 

:no:

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Two points:

  1. It's nice for youth to have some peers that support them in their beliefs.  But, I don't think that's a reason to move to UT.  You don't necessarily find better peer support in UT than elsewhere.  Utah, just like outside of Utah, can vary drastically from place to place.  The biggest challenge for many UT youth is the HUGE great and spacious building made up of those that supposedly share their religion.  However, where you should live and what's best for your family is a decision for the parents with consultation from the Lord.  If He led you there, then it's good that you went.  There are many good people there.
  2. It's actually a good thing if a child can learn to stand alone.  Think about the plan of salvation and the Fall.  Experiencing adversity and trials is absolutely necessary for developing spiritual strength.  Youth must question their religion instead of just following the crowd in order to discover truth.  If you don't seek, you won't find.

 

 

Was the statement "One of reasons" unclear?  Because I thought the implication of "one of" was that there was more then one.

 

As for standing alone... The Lord commands us to gather.  While I don't disagree with the strength that can come from learning to stand alone... The Lord seems to want strength in numbers.  Feel free to take it up with him if you think he is wrong minded about it.

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Aren't there more operating Temples in Utah than in any other geographical area found in any other single country in the world? Aren't Utah missions still some of the highest baptising missions in the world? How can that be if Utah is only populated by wishy-washy lukewarm Mormons?

 

I don't think anyone here has maligned or questioned those members' faithfulness or testimonies. Most of them are anything but wishy washy in terms of doctrine. Our "beef" is that they have forgotten how to reach out and fellowship others, and often refuse to do so even when given direct instruction to (VT/HT in our current ward is less than 25% most months, both programs. Even worse in our last ward down in Orem.)

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...or you could be like the Muslim guy who started a TV station to dispel Muslim stereotypes and then beheaded his estranged wife.

 

That would equate in Mormondom to...hmm...a TV station to dispel Mormon stereotypes and then serve funeral potatoes and green jello...or was it red jello...I can't remember.

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VT/HT in our current ward is less than 25% most months, both programs. Even worse in our last ward down in Orem

 That is pretty bad. (Of course I'd have to echo my initial question: are you doing YOUR VT/HT? ;) ). I doubt those are the statistics for all of Utah, though. 

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I don't think anyone here has maligned or questioned those members' faithfulness or testimonies. Most of them are anything but wishy washy in terms of doctrine. Our "beef" is that they have forgotten how to reach out and fellowship others, and often refuse to do so even when given direct instruction to (VT/HT in our current ward is less than 25% most months, both programs. Even worse in our last ward down in Orem.)

 

You are talking about individuals again though. How can we really judge a collective group of people like this? Who are "they" and how many "They"/s have you actually met. How many wards would I have to attend to be able to say that all of Utah or "They" are all the same. The people we are talking about are individuals, and very well may be as shy as you are. What if you have a ward of people that really aren't that outgoing? I am assuming that you are talking about your present ward. But someone who is an introvert sees the world a lot differently than someone that is an extrovert. 

 

I agree that people in general are bad at introducing themselves. At helping others feel welcome. But their intentions, or their heart may not be what it appears to be. 

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My parents were both from Utah, and I grew up hearing the "Utah Mormon" stereotype a lot, especially from my mom's side. But I noticed some things on my mission, and when some missionaries would talk about how most of the problem missionaries were from Utah, I would point out that most of the best missionaries were from Utah, too. Coincidentally, the very meanest companion I had and the very nicest (at least one of the nicest) were both from Utah.

 

I disagree with Gator that people get upset only (or mainly) about true things people say. I am sure he is right in some instances, but speaking for myself, I would much rather be condemned for the bad things I actually do than for things I am falsely accused of. But despite this, I like Gator's attitude and would like to emulate it. "Walk these things under your feet" was, I believe, the Prophet Joseph's injunction to Parley P. Pratt.

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