Are the "basics" enough?


JojoBag
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I have searched through the the church web site (not exhaustive) and cannot find anything that says we must stay away from the mysteries. Believing that we do not need to know the mysteries of the Gospel is what I have taken to calling a “traditional truth.” Joseph Smith talked about it. A traditional truth usually results from a misinterpretation of a statement from a general authority. Some bishop or someone in church misquotes something, or it was taken from the internet, or something taken out of context, or some such thing and then is repeated again and again in church until it becomes “doctrine.”

 

This particular “traditional truth” probably got started when someone heard or read something that came from one of the GS's and a misinterpretation of just what are the “mysteries.” Elder McConkie wrote, “Declare the first principles, and let mysteries alone....” This was probably repeated again and again without reading the entire quote and understanding it in its proper context. What he was saying was for missionaries to not go beyond the first principles of the gospel. We are to avoid useless speculation about things that do not pertain to our salvation.

 

Here are two quotes from the Church web site.

 

“A mystery is a truth that cannot be known except through divine revelation—a sacred secret” (Smith and Sjodahl, Commentary, p. 141; see also D&C 42:61, 65; 76:5–10; 89:18–19; 1 Nephi 10:19; Alma 12:9–11).

President Joseph Fielding Smith defined mysteries in a similar way: “The Lord has promised to reveal his mysteries to those who serve him in faithfulness. … There are no mysteries pertaining to the Gospel, only as we, in our weakness, fail to comprehend Gospel truth. … The ‘simple’ principles of the Gospel, such as baptism, the atonement, are mysteries to those who do not have the guidance of the Spirit of the Lord.” (Church History and Modern Revelation, 1:43.)

A common expression heard in the Church is that we should stay away from the “mysteries,” yet these verses speak of the mysteries in a very positive sense, promising them to the righteous who seek after them. Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained the seeming contradiction:

“There is also a restricted and limited usage of the expression mysteries; it is more of a colloquial than a scriptural usage, and it has reference to that body of teachings in the speculative field, those things which the Lord has not revealed in plainness in this day. It is to these things that reference is made when the elders are counseled to leave the mysteries alone.

“‘Oh, ye elders of Israel, hearken to my voice,’ the Prophet said, ‘and when you are sent into the world to preach, tell those things you are sent to tell; preach and cry aloud, “Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand; repent and believe the gospel.” Declare the first principles, and let mysteries alone, lest ye be overthrown. Never meddle with the visions of beasts and subjects you do not understand.’ (Teachings, p. 292.)” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 524.)

(Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Section 6: The Arrival of Oliver Cowdery)

 

 

We have two classes of revelation: There are revelations which might be said to be open revelations, like those written in the Doctrine and Covenants and elsewhere, which may be given to the world. And then we have what we might speak of as closed revelations. These are to be divulged and given only in sacred places which are prepared for the revealing of the highest ordinances which belong to the Aaronic and to the Melchizedek Priesthoods, and those ordinances are in the house of the Lord.5

As early as 1841, the Lord revealed to Joseph Smith that “there is not a place found on earth that he may come to and restore again that which was lost unto you, or which he hath taken away, even the fulness of the priesthood. …

“For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times.” (D&C 124:28, 41.)

These revelations, which are reserved for and taught only to the faithful Church members in sacred temples, constitute what are called the “mysteries of Godliness.” The Lord said He had given to Joseph “the keys of the mysteries, and the revelations which are sealed. …” (D&C 28:7.) As a reward to the faithful, the Lord promised: “And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of old. …” (D&C 76:7.) …

(Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, Chapter 11: Priceless Riches of the Holy Temple )

 

 

 

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We weren't a part of your Quorum meeting so we can't know the exact context of the remarks.

If we take the comments to mean, as you seem to have, that we only need to do the minimum (the basics) then you are correct. That's not the path to exaltation.

If we take the comments to mean that we need to focus on the fundamentals (the basics) then that is presicely the way to exaltation.

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We weren't a part of your Quorum meeting so we can't know the exact context of the remarks.

If we take the comments to mean, as you seem to have, that we only need to do the minimum (the basics) then you are correct. That's not the path to exaltation.

If we take the comments to mean that we need to focus on the fundamentals (the basics) then that is presicely the way to exaltation.

 

Glad to see you were able to make it into the forums.  :)

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If we take the comments to mean, as you seem to have, that we only need to do the minimum (the basics) then you are correct. That's not the path to exaltation.

 

I dunno. From a certain perspective, the minimum to exaltation is the basics, and that is exactly all we must do. "The minimum", of course, has to be qualified by a "to what" sort of explanation. The minimum to not get excommunicated is very different than the minimum to be exalted. But no one needs to do more than the minimum to exaltation -- obviously. ;)

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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Is that how we categorize everything?  Basics vs. Mysteries?  Nothing in between?  What are your definitions?  What is included in “the basics”?  Who is going to decide that? 

 

Nope.  Right here.  No further.  That next step is a mystery, so stay away.

 

Basic principles blend smoothly into the mysteries.  I don’t think we ought to “seek after” mysteries for the sake of knowing mysteries.  This causes skipped paths and unsteady footing.  It does not blend smoothly.  But when we learn and internalize one level, it only makes sense to learn and internalize the next level and so on.

... We understand things with a limited capacity.  The spirit teaches us as our capacity grows.  The "mysteries" is nothing more than the deeper and more profound knowledge of the "basics"...

Well stated.

 

Mysteries can be important because they tell us what we’re trying to accomplish.  A man at church a few weeks ago asked, ”Why do we spend so much time on discussing whether the Father and the Son are the same or different.  It really makes no difference.  We just need to obey the commandments regardless.”

 

I responded, “This is Life Eternal, to know thee, the only true God, and thy Son whom thou hast sent.  If our end goal is to know them, then shouldn’t we get to know them?”

 

No, I don’t believe this needs to go so far as determining how tall the Father is (He’s 6’-2”.  TFP missed it by a ½” J).  But we at least need to get a vision in our mind of what we are striving for.  Without that idea in mind, we have no eye of faith to guide us.

 

A particular very deep doctrine came up as I was a youth when I didn’t really understand.  Just a couple years ago we discussed it again at an adult fireside.  It totally changed my mind around about why a related commandment was given to us. 

 

I may have been obeying unknowing (as Adam and the altar).  But now I completely understand why it is so important.  And I’ve stood at the deep end for several decades and this mystery never occurred to me.  I even knew about the mystery but I never put it together.  Yet this is what it took to help me truly understand why one of the basics was so important.

 

Mysteries have a place in our studies.  We need only remember milk before meat and line upon line.  Don’t be too eager to delve into the mysteries before it is time.  And don’t fear it if it is the natural course of your spiritual development.

Edited by Guest
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  • 2 weeks later...

I've done a great deal of searching on the church web site and so far, I have been unable to find a single instance in which any church leader from the prophet on down who has stated or even hinted that the "basics" are enough to gain the Celestial Kingdom.  What I have found in several articles and talks  is that the basics prepare you for learning what you do need to know to gain the Celestial Kingdom.

 

Saying that the basics are enough is like saying a kid just graduating from elementary school knows enough to graduate from college.  Saying that the basics are enough is nothing more than saying you need no more knowledge.  "A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible." It's like saying, “I believe that Jesus is my personal Savior,” and then believing your are born again, and you have to do nothing else. Therefore, you are saved. That is not enough to gain the Celestial Kingdom.  What the basic do is it puts you in a receptive spiritual frame of mind to learn what you do need to know to gain the Celestial Kingdom. You must gain knowledge to gain your salvation.

 

The following are quotes from Joseph Smith.

 

 

“When God offers...knowledge to a man, and he refuses to receive it, he will be damned.” HC 5:555

 

…When things that are of the greatest importance are passed over by weak-minded men without even a thought, I want to see truth in all its bearings and hug it to my bosom. I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” HC 6:477

“Knowledge is necessary to life and godliness. ...Knowledge is the power of God unto salvation.” Quoted by Martha Jane Knowlton Coray, reporting a discourse given by Joseph Smith on May 21, 1843, in Nauvoo, Illinois; Martha Jane Knowlton Coray, Notebook, Church Archives.


“… A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth.” HC 4:588

“It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.” D&C 131:6

 

“Joseph Smith taught that every man and woman should seek the Lord for wisdom, that they might get knowledge from Him who is the fountain of knowledge; and the promises of the gospel, as revealed, were such as to authorize us to believe, that by taking this course we should gain the object of our pursuit.” George A. Smith, Deseret News: Semi-Weekly, Nov. 29, 1870, p. 2.

 

“The things of God are of deep import; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God.” HC 3:295

 

 

Does anyone here do any research into their beliefs to find out whether or not they are tradition or truth?

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I've done a great deal of searching on the church web site and so far, I have been unable to find a single instance in which any church leader from the prophet on down who has stated or even hinted that the "basics" are enough to gain the Celestial Kingdom.

 

Depends entirely on what you mean by the "basics". You appear to be using a private definition based on your particular hobby horse.

 

Does anyone here do any research into their beliefs to find out whether or not they are tradition or truth?

 

No. You are the only one.

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Depends entirely on what you mean by the "basics". You appear to be using a private definition based on your particular hobby horse.

 

 

 

For the definition of the basics, I'm using the definition used by the Church: scripture study and prayer. 

 

 

No. You are the only one.

 

 

I'm beginning to wonder with all the knee jerk traditional answers I keep reading.

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For the definition of the basics, I'm using the definition used by the Church: scripture study and prayer. 

 
Is that what your brother meant when he gave the lesson.  If so, I'd ask a follow up.  
       Did he mean it in the sense that some simplistic evangelicals say when they just "profess Jesus" and they can sin all they want?
       Or did he mean that by doing the basics all the rest will follow?
 

I'm beginning to wonder with all the knee jerk traditional answers I keep reading.

 

:taz:

 

That wasn't prideful at all  :ahhh: .

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