Gun free zone = killing spree zone


Str8Shooter
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Yet another example of how gun free zones are ridiculous and they do not work.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Reports-Active-shooter-on-the-Umpqua-Community-College-campus--330285921.html?mobile=y

It is so strange and so confusing to me how people fear guns. Guns cannot act on their own. It's seems that society is afraid place blame on humans for fear of offending, so they blame an inanimate object. It's primal logic and completely ludicrous. Place blame on the mentally ill human behind the gun and allow the mentally healthy to defend themselves.

The police are NOT the first responders. We, the citizens, are the first responders. Citizens should not have to run, hide, cower in fear, and be murdered, waiting for the police to come save them. That is a crippling way to live and very sad.

Very, very, sad.

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Very sad.

 

However, I agree.  Not only do gun free zones not work, in actuality they create an area that is more dangerous to the public.  Due to gun free zones, any psychopath or criminal that wishes to inflict harm has an established area full of people that they know will be unarmed and unable to defend themselves.

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Guys, the bodies likely aren't even cold yet. 

 

Let's give the families a little while to collect their dead and mourn for them. 

 

Then we can talk politics. 

 

And before anyone says anything, just remember: the town I live in is right next door to Ft. Hood. I know all too well what happens when a shooting goes down. I also know what it's like to hear people talk about politics when you still don't know if your friends are alive.* So let's just leave some respectful room, okay? 

 

 

 

*Specifically, a rather uninformed individual tried to use the incident as an excuse for expanding gun control... never mind the fact that the shooting started in a medical clinic populated primarily by medical staff, clerical staff and patients, with many of all three categories being civilians employed by the Department of Defense instead of actual military service members. 

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Ironhold is right. 

 

(The first two posters are absolutely right also, IMO, but yeah, Ironhold is right.)

 

Can we wait until Monday?  I'll be posting in this thread then.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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We have no murder zones, no trespassing zones, no vehicle zones, no pedestrian zones, but they don't work 100% either.. perhaps we should rethink those as well.


they do not create an area that is significantly more or less dangerous. It's a matter of tradeoffs of what kind of risks you are willing to take.

Secondly countering a gun that is used efficiently is extremely difficult (fortunately many criminals aren't that competent, or competent enough.. but then same could be said about many legal gun owners)



Knowledge is power. You are only unarmed if you are not prepared. I doubt soldiers consider their guns their only weapon available to them. IF you are allowed to have a gun (plus having the ability to use it well) as a tool in your box that's great (and yes it's probably the most effective tool for killing that a civillian can get their hands on easily), if not you have to find a different tool and adapt.
 

Edited by Blackmarch
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Normally I would wait but forgive me; I am overcome.  It seems that only after a short while people idealize solutions to these shootings in their minds and then think that some writing on a piece of paper is going to protect their children.

News flash-  It won't, but someone with countermeasures will.

I was working just down the road from the last shooting here.  I was the one that told my buddy that the school his daughter was at had an active shooter.  I will never forget that.  
 

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Am watching the latest news conference.

 

It is striking in the comments of the sheriff, who refused to name the shooter and stated that the shooter's name will not be spoken by him, ever.  He made additional comments regarding this point and I have to say his words and manner were striking and powerful.  His concerns and energies clearly lie with the victims and their families.

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I've been thinking about this a lot, mostly wondering at what point I'll feel like it's time to teach my kids at home. So far, it hasn't felt right.

 

At any rate, when I was in high school 20ish years ago, a lot of kids drove their trucks and jeeps to school with guns in the racks. It wasn't an issue. They were farmers and hunters. We saw guns, we were taught how to use them, and mostly how to respect them. I rarely saw my dad's guns, but when he took them out it was a sober and educational time. 

 

I believe in second amendment rights. I believe that disarming the populous only leaves us vulnerable. I don't believe that all guns are bought legally, and I don't believe for a second that the bad guys of the world would stop buying guns if it became illegal to do so. 

 

I think what we're seeing happen is a symptom of a society who has lost respect not only for firearms, but for life. Butchering babies is no big deal. Teenagers play games where the object is to kill innocent citizens and pick up hookers on the way; which brings up human trafficking, another sickeningly prevalent exhibit of the world's dismissal of the worth of souls. You think the attack on the family doesn't have consequences? I think we're already seeing them. So by the time the fatherless or neglected child has fried his brain on Grand Theft Auto 23843, or another shoot-em-up game, and they go to school empty of the love they should be getting at home, the answer seems simple, and they are numb to shooting the kids that they blame for their misery, because it's what they do for hours every day, anyway.

 

It's upsetting. It's disheartening. It makes my mother heart sick. 

Edited by Eowyn
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I'm all for private property rights.  I respect the rights of businessowners, homeowners, private schools and universities and whatnot, to ban guns.

 

But they're stupid if they do so without hardening security.  Because banning guns does squat to make people safe.  They may make people feel safe, but that's it.  

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I'm all for private property rights.  I respect the rights of businessowners, homeowners, private schools and universities and whatnot, to ban guns.

 

But they're stupid if they do so without hardening security.  Because banning guns does squat to make people safe.  They may make people feel safe, but that's it.  

I don't feel "safe" in a "gun free zone".  I feel like a sittiing duck.

dc

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I did not grow up with guns. My mother is still horrified my husband purchased a gun. It's kept locked up, and when he originally purchased it he even had a toddler-level discussion about it with our toddler.

 

But I agree there definitely needs to be a respect for them, and even more so taught a respect for human life.

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I don't live in fear. Incidents of violence are rare and extreme violence extremely rare.

 

It bothered me, in another thread, that a brother would take a gun into a Sealing room in the temple because he won't take the few minutes to check it into a locker (police officer or not).

 

Do we not live our lives in faith? Especially in the temple?

 

I would rather die with a hole in my head than to live every waking moment wondering how fast I can get to a gun. Having a gun strapped to me would have me thinking about guns all day long.

 

I love one comedian's bit when talking about what he thought adulthood would be.  He says "I really thought quicksand would be a bigger issue." I think the same with gun violence. I'm grown up now and I don't see the need for a gun the way I did whan I watched Clint Eastwood movies on Saturdays. I'm not calling the idea of self defense childish. Don't take my opinion to extremes. I am saying that for 99% of us 99% of the time, this isn't really an issue.

Edited by pkstpaul
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I don't live in fear. Incidents of violence are rare and extreme violence extremely rare.

 

Honestly, I think people on both sides of the gun control debate are living in fear.  That's why it arouses so much passion.

 

The difference is whether we prefer to confront that fear on a collective, versus an individual basis.  The former approach may allow us to delegate the task of our day-to-day protection to third parties; but let's not pretend that it makes us less fearful or more enlightened individuals. 

 

 

I would rather die with a hole in my head than to live every waking moment wondering how fast I can get to a gun. Having a gun strapped to me would have me thinking about guns all day long.

 

I feel much the same way as you do.  I didn't grow up with guns.  I've shot them a few times, but I HATE handling them and generally dislike even being around them (I've finally spent enough time in court where I don't mind seeing uniformed bailiffs carrying them, but otherwise--ick).

 

BUT - I recognize that an awful lot of people were raised differently and think about their gun the way I think about my lawnmower or sawzall--something to be respected, but not feared.  And I'm okay with that.

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I've always been around guns; have owned guns and hunted with guns. I don't currently own one because I simply didn't want one in the house when I am no longer interested in target shooting or hunting. I came to a realizaiton that if a person gets shot they are shot with a gun. No gun in my house and I am reducing the chance of someone I know getting shot.

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I've always been around guns; have owned guns and hunted with guns. I don't currently own one because I simply didn't want one in the house when I am no longer interested in target shooting or hunting. I came to a realizaiton that if a person gets shot they are shot with a gun. No gun in my house and I am reducing the chance of someone I know getting shot.

 

Sadly, as Tolkein's Eowyn notes (at least, in the movie):  "The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them."

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I don't live in fear. Incidents of violence are rare and extreme violence extremely rare.

 

It bothered me, in another thread, that a brother would take a gun into a Sealing room in the temple because he won't take the few minutes to check it into a locker (police officer or not).

 

Do we not live our lives in faith? Especially in the temple?

 

I would rather die with a hole in my head than to live every waking moment wondering how fast I can get to a gun. Having a gun strapped to me would have me thinking about guns all day long.

 

I love one comedian's bit when talking about what he thought adulthood would be.  He says "I really thought quicksand would be a bigger issue." I think the same with gun violence. I'm grown up now and I don't see the need for a gun the way I did whan I watched Clint Eastwood movies on Saturdays. I'm not calling the idea of self defense childish. Don't take my opinion to extremes. I am saying that for 99% of us 99% of the time, this isn't really an issue.

 

You have every right to feel that way and act that way.  Where that right ends however is when someone who feels the way you do decides that I have to act the same way.  I'm not saying you're doing that here, but once someone says "I don't want to have to think about having a gun around all the time, AND YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER."  That's where it gets a bit sticky. 

 

 

Edited to add.

 

I just read the other post you referred to.  The thing you have to understand about carrying concealed.  After a short time, carrying a gun becomes no different than carrying a wallet. It's on your person and a part of your clothing. I also carry a flashlight, leatherman, knife, keys etc.  I don't think about whether or not I have them, I just do.  My muscle memory knows where each is.  I don't think "Gee I need my keys where are they?"  I think I need to open my car door and my hand goes to my left pocket. A gun is simply a tool I carry with me.  My hands know where it is and will retrieve it without further conscious thought when needed, and will otherwise leave it unmolested unless I do think about it.  

Edited by kapikui
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A gun is simply a tool I carry with me.

I own hundreds of tools. I wouldn't think to carry my grout float around because I know I don't need a grout float when I go to the grocery store.

 

And no, I do not advocate for gun laws. I am pro second amendment.

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I would rather die with a hole in my head than to live every waking moment wondering how fast I can get to a gun. Having a gun strapped to me would have me thinking about guns all day long.

 

 

Congrats - there's a place for you as a disciple of Christ:

 

 

...they took their swords, and all the weapons which were used for the shedding of man’s blood, and they did bury them up deep in the earth. ...rather than shed the blood of their brethren they would give up their own lives;
 
[fast forward a few verses]
 
...the Lamanites began to fall upon them, and began to slay them with the sword. And thus without meeting any resistance, they did slay a thousand and five of them.
 
[fast forward a few more verses]
 
And it came to pass that the people of God were joined that day by more than the number who had been slain; and those who had been slain were righteous people, therefore we have no reason to doubt but what they were saved.
 
 
 
Just keep in mind these guys' kids had to take up arms and become the stripling warriors, fighting and killing bad guys so their parents could live.  That's a valid way as well.  There's room for both philosophies.  Don't judge mine, and I won't judge yours.  Deal?
Edited by NeuroTypical
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I own hundreds of tools. I wouldn't think to carry my grout float around because I know I don't need a grout float when I go to the grocery store.

 

And no, I do not advocate for gun laws. I am pro second amendment.

Did you read the rest of my post, particularly about the other tools I also carry with me, or did you cherry pick something and take it out of context deliberately to make an irrelevant and incorrect point?

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