Mass Murders


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This is about reducing the numbers of mass murders committed with guns.

Why focus on the mass murders committed with guns? Indeed, why focus on mass murders? Are the single victims of a crazed madman any less dead? Are they in any less pain because the weapon was something other than a gun?

It is true that firearms make it easier to kill a lot of people fairly fast, but automobiles, airplanes, knives (as in the Chinese school killing incident) and a host of other weapons can do the job as well as guns can. Slower, in some cases, but the victims are just as dead, just as injured, just as terrorized.

One woman killed or injured fifteen people in a car crash. It has happened on purpose. Our Stake Relief Society president was hit by a teen aged madman who wanted to see what it felt like to kill someone. His weapon of choice was a car: he struck her while she was jogging and she spent month in an only partial recovery.

Mass killings are down. All killings are down, in general. If it were not for Chicago, Baltimore, Atlanta, and a few other cities with severe gun-control laws, the USmerican murder rate, with guns or without them, would be one of the five lowest in the world.

I did a personal research project on all the "mass murders" in USmerica since the 1970s. Except for the Austin Bell Tower killer (the first big name one; I could find nothing on his politics), every one of the killers was a progressive. Every one was on some form of psychotropic drug. Every one was from a dysfunctional family. If we want to end mass murder in USmerica, I propose we outlaw leftists, refuse to treat people with mind altering drugs, and end divorce.

Killing on the scale you are talking about is the result of evil in the hearts of men. That evil has been with us since Cain. No one has the answer to it, except The church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But, due to Agency, we cannot impose that on people, not even on people who need it the most.

So, we are left with the situation where we cannot eliminate the root cause, so we must be able to defend ourselves and our families. Which bring us back to the OP: this isn't about gun control.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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The Sandy Hook shooter had been flagged as mentally ill and so denied the right to own guns, but his mother circumvented the ban by buying the guns for him.

No, his mother did not buy the guns for him. He killed her while she was sleeping, and stole the guns.

Lehi

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Even looking for areas with low divorce rates, would not account for domestic violence, etc.

We might look at the cohabitation rate instead. Or, better the single mother rates.

Most importantly, we might look at the multi-generational welfare rates.

My observation (obviously not scientific, but if this kind of study were done, it is certain that the results would support my conclusion) is that boys, particularly, but girls, too, are far more violent when there is no father, and specifically their father, in the home.

The children grow up never having seen a real man treat a woman with respect. They've never seen a man go to work every day, they've never heard the word, "No!" The girls don't know how a man toils to bring home the bacon because the mailman does it, or, nowadays, it's just magic money that shows up on the EBT card. The boys don't know anything about responsibility for their acts and actions. They all fail to recognize that wanting something is not the same thing as earning it. (Most have never earned anything in their lives, not even the D+ in Miss Darnelle's first grade class.) We've read that reports that the new morality among welfarites is: it's his who stole it last. If you want something, it's your by natural right. Want those shoes? Steal them. Want sex? Rape her. Want respect? Kill someone.

Next, of course, is the violence of abortion. I'm a libertarian, and most of my political philosophy think abortion is a right. I believe they are wrong on numerous counts, but, in terms of this discussion, abortion cheapens human life. If a child is inconvenient, kill him. This extends to the born, as well: if a person is in your way. kill him, or hurt him badly.

Drugs play a role, but I am convinced that it is much less the drugs than the drug culture that has sprung up around the illegality of manufacturing, selling, and using them. When the only way a child has seen any one get wealth is by dealing drugs, when a guy offers you $50 to stand on a corner and warn him when the cops are coming, when he sees drug lords driving Lamborghinis and pimped-out Mercedeses, he wants to be part of that action. Here, in Colorado, we have "legallized" pot, but the taxes on it are so high that the illegal drug trade is still a factor. But none of the horror stories surrounding the issue have been reified. The drugs are still cheaper on the street than in the shops. And the violence continues, not higher, but not as low as we libertarians had hoped. When my father-in-law's car was broken into and the radio stolen, it caused nearly $5,000 dollars in damage to the car, plus another $350 for the radio. The thieves got $30 for it. It's just a hypothesis, but we assume that the money went to a drug dealer. So, a gram or so of pot cost the insurance company $4,350 and Dad another $1,000. That's stupid. but it was just another day in the life of a drug addict. The special days are when he has to shoot someone to get his fix. Or when another dealer shows up on his corner, and one of them kills the other. Oh, the joy!

We can only hope that some sanity will pop up on the horizon (at least until the Second Coming), but that's not likely: there is too much at political stake to hope such a thing will ever occur. Ending abortion, stopping the insane war on drugs, and ending or cutting welfare, all absolutely necessary to stopping the killing, ain't gonna happen.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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I did a personal research project on all the "mass murders" in USmerica since the 1970s. Except for the Austin Bell Tower killer (the first big name one; I could find nothing on his politics), every one of the killers was a progressive. Every one was on some form of psychotropic drug. Every one was from a dysfunctional family. 

 

Uh - no?

 

What do you think was dysfunctional about the Columbine killers families?  Both Harris and Klebold's parents were married, one family was a mix of Jewish heritage and Lutheran practice.  Klebold's medical records are sealed, we've just got one statement from someone who claimed he took pills.  Both were high school kids - too young to vote - how do you know their politics?

 

How on earth could anyone in their right mind call Randy Weaver a progressive?

 

I guess Timothy McVeigh was a progressive, as long as you pronounce it "libertarian" and define it as "the opposite of what most people think of as progressive".

 

James Huberty was in his 40's, married with kids, graduated from a Jesuit community college, and was a self-proclaimed survivalist.  

 

You wouldn't happen to have this research of yours published somewhere, would you?

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I guess what the question is is how do they cure insanity, or prevent it.

I don't think it can ever be done.

dc

Why do these people have to be insane? Why can't they be possessed by evil spirits. That isn't curable without someone having the proper authority. Even then having evil spirits cast out is not always a cure. People have freedom to go back to the behavior that caused the possession in the first place.

At the same time I'm not saying that all irrational behavior is always caused by possession. I am saying that extremes like mass murder is.

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Insanity?  Evil spirits?  What's wrong with just saying some people choose to work evil?

 

I'm always amazed at how far people will go to blame something besides an evildoer for the actions of the evildoer.   Besides insanity and mental illness, for some reason we also favor blaming parents, drugs, trauma, media, bullies, music, violent video games, ocean tides, and the moon.

 

There's a good Ronald Reagan quote around somewhere on the subject.  

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Guest MormonGator

Insanity?  Evil spirits?  What's wrong with just saying some people choose to work evil?

 

 

 AMEN. 

The bitter truth is that evil exists. Some people knowingly and of sound mind choose evil actions. There. That simple. 

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 AMEN. 

The bitter truth is that evil exists. Some people knowingly and of sound mind choose evil actions. There. That simple. 

Yes, Gator, but that is included of my definition of insanity.

 

And as to insanity, possession, or just plain evil, I accept no excuses for their behavior and make no excuses for them.

Death penalty, and swiftly so, I say.

But who listens to me.

dc

 

Let me add:  Maybe there is a cure.  Death penalty.

That will cure them, I say.

Edited by David13
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Guest MormonGator

 

Death penalty, and swiftly so, I say.

But who listens to me.

 

I do my friend. I agree with you. I have a scattershot of views from liberal-conserative-libetarian but I am also pro death penalty. In fact, I have no problem applying it to all people convicted of child murder, for starters

Edited by MormonGator
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Insanity?  Evil spirits?  What's wrong with just saying some people choose to work evil?

 

I do not see that the two are mutually exclusive. I do not understand the doctrine of "spiritual possession", but I believe it. It is not something that is likely amenable to scientific scrutiny. Science cannot measure spirit, so how then might it measure possession? I do not believe that possession exculpates the possessed individual; as far as I understand, their possession by evil spirits is at their own behest.

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I get it Vort, I really do.  But in my mind, those of us inclined to go online and begin talking about such things, automatically turn to figuring out who to blame, so we know where to focus our resources to make sure such things happen less.  I have had countless discussions, spanning two decades, on and offline), on the subject.  I've always been interested (sometimes startled) at how people assign blame.  

 

Yes indeed, there are some humans out there who commit horrible acts, who are not guilty of those acts, due to mental illness.  Although I also try to understand the reality of spiritual possession, I'm less likely to give an earthly justice pass for people who claim "The devil made me do it".  

 

Take this weekend's mass-killing at the Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, for example.  I haven't even started seriously discussing the matter, but already I've seen people blame the following:

* Republicans, for working people up with rhetoric springing from the "selling baby parts for money" controversy.

* Right wingers/gun nuts, for filling our country with guns and opposing gun laws.

* Brain meds/the pharmaceutical industry/capitalism for poisoning our minds with drugs for profit.

* The firearm industry/guns in general, because guns kill people.

 

Almost nowhere (other than my post here, and people talking about the upcoming court case), have I seen people blame Robert Lewis Dear, Jr. for what he allegedly did.  

 

I think, without dismissing the realities of mental illness and spiritual forces, we should at least consider that he was a bad guy who did bad things, and that bringing swift justice to him may be the best thing we can do with our justice system.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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Guest MormonGator

Speaking of the Planned Parenthood murders: Do you suppose that the clinic itself killed as many people (babies) that day as Robert Dear killed?

 :: snickers :: 

 

TRUTH. Planned Parenthood loses it right to talk to about violence and brutality, in my view. 

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