I believe in God but Im not interested in him...


SportBilly
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Hello all

Im seeking advice that concerns mormonism or maybe Christianity as such. Excuse my english please as Im not a native speaker.

I was raised in a totally non-religious family. We never went to a church and I always thought that religion was for the weak or emotional ones who cannot cope with their own mortality. I have always been trying to be rational and I enjoy critical thinking. I am also healthy, relatively succesful and overally happy with my life.

Lately Ive become interested in rational Christian apologetics like that of William Lane Craig and long story short I came to conclusion that it is far more likely that God exists and that Jesus really raised from the dead. I now do believe in God and Jesus ressurection (ar at least think it is very likely to be true).

 

But this is where the trouble begins… I simply cannot come into any relationship with God. Ive been recently approached by Mormon Missionary sisters. We discussed much about their faith and they are very nice girls. The problem is that even though I believe that there is a God I seem not to be really interested in him. When the sister talks about the existence of the „Dear heavenly father who loves me“ Im not moved or touched by that at all. I know it sounds awful but this is how I feel it. I dont feel any genuine need for God. I feel like Im too well estabilished in this comfortable worldly existence and Im not really seeking Him. If I know he exists it should be obvious that I should reach for God but nothing drives me towards him.

 

The people in the church also seem extremly emotional. They say prayers and some of them almost cry after every other sentence. Im not that kind of person. Im just sitting there with my eyes closed feeling extremly odd. Prayers themselves seem very weird to me as well as the religious songs. (I might get used to it though)

When I try to pray, besides feeling awkward (cause I never did that before) I do not feel anything at all. I dont get any responses to my questions especially whether mormonism is true or not…

Am I hopeless? Is my heart hardened or something? How to seek God when I know that I can live comfortably without worshipping him? Should I only turn to him for the fear or death to gain eternity? That doesnt seem right to me…

 

Tnanks for your advice..

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Listen to what the sister missionaries are trying to teach you, and give it a try for awhile. Repent, fast and sincerely pray, explain the situation to God through prayer and tell him what you have told us here.

You aren't alone in feeling that many members become highly emotional, and feeling odd about it. The Good News is that the promptings of the spirit don't have to be strong emotions. They can be though, and for many this is how they relate to the spirit, often described as a "burning in the bosom". 

Even more often you will hear it described as "a still small voice". Which might be a thought, or prompting. Or a feeling of peace. Each person is a little different and they may be lead in their own unique way.

You may not realize it, but you have already shown interest in God. Why did you become interested in apologetic's and begin reading it? Why have you been approached by missionaries at this time? You even talked with them, and from your own description are listening and trying to approach God through prayer. Something seems to indeed be driving you towards him.

I am not in need of my mother or father anymore, I can even live comfortably without them, and yet I find goodness in being with them and spending time together. Do you see any value in the way of life that is prescribed by Christ? Turning towards God because of that goodness is good enough reason itself. 

Sometimes we make small sacrifices of comfort for something greater.
 

[i'd just like to add that it's pretty dang comfortable to lay in bed all day, but it's even better to get up and do things every once in awhile. Like eating xD ]  :P

Edited by Crypto
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You mentioned three things:

 

1) Awkwardness at new things.

2) Being emotional.

3) Lack of interest in or lack of need for God.

 

Response:

1) Any time you try something new, it feels awkward.  That is completely normal.  At least give it a chance.

 

2) No, there is nothing wrong with you not being emotional.  And there is nothing wrong with using your brain.  You're supposed to think.  God gave you a brain.  Do you think he doesn't want you to use it?  Of course he does.  The caution here is that you can't ONLY use your brain.  You've also got a heart, a body, and a soul.  You need to use all of it to truly get into a relationship with anyone.  God is no different.  To get into a relationship with him, you have to use all those parts.

 

3) We cannot change what you're interested in.  And it really depends on what you really feel is important.  It is not a matter of escaping hell or death.  It is a matter of whether you think you need.  Amusement?  Family?  Personal relationships?  Your career? What?  I think you'll find that the more you value the physical things in life, the less interest you'll have in God.  The more you value spiritual things the more you'll be interested in developing a relationship with the Lord.

 

What are spiritual things?  

   Having an enduring purpose in your life.

   Relationships (friends and family).

   Knowledge, wisdom, love, patience, truth, mercy, justice, charity, and other esoteric traits that are generally considered admirable.

 

If you value these things or wish to develop them in your life, the only real way to grow in these traits is to have the Lord on your side.

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Scriptures in most major religions (including the Bible, the Qur'an, and LDS scriptures) all teach that if we seek God we will find him.  You've sought him through your intellectual inquiry.  Though the effort may not have resulted in strongly emotional reactions, your thinking has changed.  Something is happening.  Just continue in that.  Ask God to show himself to you, and reveal what it is he wants of you.  Part of what you will hear is that you are accountable to the one who created you and the world.  Again, this reality is taught in all the major monotheistic religions.  When you accept the need to be reconciled to God, then the real dilemma comes.  Will your desire to embrace ultimate truth trump your desire (we all have it) to run your own life?  Blessings as you walk this often quiet, but definitely momentous journey.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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But this is where the trouble begins… I simply cannot come into any relationship with God. Ive been recently approached by Mormon Missionary sisters. We discussed much about their faith and they are very nice girls. The problem is that even though I believe that there is a God I seem not to be really interested in him. When the sister talks about the existence of the „Dear heavenly father who loves me“ Im not moved or touched by that at all. I know it sounds awful but this is how I feel it. I dont feel any genuine need for God. I feel like Im too well estabilished in this comfortable worldly existence and Im not really seeking Him. If I know he exists it should be obvious that I should reach for God but nothing drives me towards him.

 

The people in the church also seem extremly emotional. They say prayers and some of them almost cry after every other sentence. Im not that kind of person. Im just sitting there with my eyes closed feeling extremly odd. Prayers themselves seem very weird to me as well as the religious songs. (I might get used to it though)

When I try to pray, besides feeling awkward (cause I never did that before) I do not feel anything at all. I dont get any responses to my questions especially whether mormonism is true or not…

Am I hopeless? Is my heart hardened or something? How to seek God when I know that I can live comfortably without worshipping him? Should I only turn to him for the fear or death to gain eternity? That doesnt seem right to me…

Here is how C.S. Lewis might approach your question...

 

You say the Mormon missionaries are nice girls. What makes you say that? Who told you they are nice? Why in your own mind have you defined what constitutes nice? The interesting thing is others will agree with you. They understand what you mean by "nice". You, in one sentence have defined a moral law, to which others will agree and to some extent by which you believe all people should be bound. Christianity would say that the universe is governed by this moral law and that there is standard of absolute goodness. But if we accept such a truth we must recognize the problem. The problem is, we continually fail at living up to such a standard.

 

See Christianity tells people they must change, they must repent and then promises forgiveness. But it is only after you realize that there is a real moral law and power behind the law, that you can then recognize that you are not in alignment with it and how serious a problem that is. Until you recognize this truth Mormonisim and Christianity will not tuch you at your core. Here is how C.S. Lewis puts it:

When you know you are sick, you will listen to the doctor. When you have realised that our position is nearly desperate you will being to understand what the Christians are talking about. They offer an explanation of how we got into our present state of both hating goodness and loving it. They offer an explanation of how God can be this impersonal mind at the back of the Moral Law and yet also a Person. They tell you how the demands of this law, which you and I cannot meet, have been met on our behalf, how God Himself becomes a man to save man from the disapproval of God... All I am doing is to ask people to face the facts - to understand the questions which Christianity claims to answer. And they are very terrifying facts.... Of course, I quite agree that the Christian religion is, in the long run, a thing of unspeakable comfort. But it does not begin in comfort, it begins in the dismay I have been describing, and it is no use at all trying to go on to that comfort without first going through that dismay. In religion, as in war and everything else, comfort is the one thing you cannot get by looking for it. If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end: if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth – only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin with and, in the end, despair.” (Mere Christianity, Ch 5 paragraph 6)

 

 

So my suggestion is to recognize this moral law in yourself. Spend some time and just think on it. Is there a standard of goodness in the universe? Are you in alignment with it? If not, what are you going to do about it. This is the first step.

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Hello,

 

I can understand that you do not necessarely search for a real emotionnal connection to God by referring to Him as you really do feel His love, or cry after prayers. I'm a believer and I have more like a down to earth approach of religion but I do feel connected to G-d even if I do not "feel" it in my body. I know He exists by looking around me, thinking about my life and how His presence, his essence have always had a huge impact in me and my existence.

 

I was told many times by missionnaries to read the Mormon Book and ask G-d to tell me if it is the truth and honestly I don't see how I could get such answer in a quick time. I feel that I need to wait until G-d Himself shows me the path as He did before. That He knows when I am ready and how it is the best way for me to reach it.

 

Spirituality and faith is such a personnal thing, that I'm not sure there is one way to live it. 

 

There were times in my life where I prayed so hard and cried and got answers, there were times I just couldn't even pray and I saw I didn't get the same answers, I know that when it is time and you feel it all doors from Heaven will be open for you. Now I think you just have to try and try again, because even if you don't really feel it, prayers are never left unheard nor unanswered. Sometimes we don't get the answer we expect and we don't get it when we want it. 

 

I can tell you from my experience, or what we can call a testimony, that I have asked things that I was sure were what I needed in my life at that time I prayed to God, and I didn't receive them from the Lord. There are times I was very sad and disappointed that I became depressed because I thought God wasn't listening to me. I ended up tellin Him : God only You know what is best for me, and even if it is a NO I would put my faith in You that you chose to deny me what I think I need because this is only what I want and not what I truly need. And every time, it is true, every single time, I looked back and thought to myself "It was only for the best, God really knows it and I just need to always remember it".

 

You can investigate your faith in God by the small things that are around you every moment and that you don't really "see" : the constant renewal of His creation !

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I'm not moved or touched by that at all. I know it sounds awful but this is how I feel it. I dont feel any genuine need for God. I feel like Im too well estabilished in this comfortable worldly existence and Im not really seeking Him. If I know he exists it should be obvious that I should reach for God but nothing drives me towards him.

 

The people in the church also seem extremly emotional. They say prayers and some of them almost cry after every other sentence. Im not that kind of person. Im just sitting there with my eyes closed feeling extremly odd. Prayers themselves seem very weird to me as well as the religious songs. (I might get used to it though)

When I try to pray, besides feeling awkward (cause I never did that before) I do not feel anything at all. I dont get any responses to my questions especially whether mormonism is true or not…

Am I hopeless? Is my heart hardened or something? How to seek God when I know that I can live comfortably without worshipping him? Should I only turn to him for the fear or death to gain eternity? That doesnt seem right to me…

 

Look for a contrast between living righteous and living against any principles you are being taught. If you have been living a righteous life, you may not recognize that there is a difference in what is being taught. If you were a bad person, I would think the contrast would be stark and easier to recognize the Spirit. It sounds to me you have always been a good person. I would bet you live in Asia, or raised as such, and in an environment influenced by Buddhism.

 

As for other people's prayers...I don't think it typical that they be so emotional. Sometimes public prayer is very mechanical. I closed two meetings with prayer yesterday, Sunday. Although I felt them meaningful and sought the Spirit, I still felt I had to construct them in form.  What is important about your praying is how you pray privately. I encourage you to kneel in a quite place, once or twice a day. If that is too much, then as much as you can "afford".

 

Overall, I would say be patient. Things will come to you. The missionaries will continue to challenge you for baptism, but you should only do what you know to be right. Until you have a testimony, you shouldn't be baptized.  That doesn't mean you need to know everything in order to be baptized; quite the opposite.  However you should feel good about the LDS church just as you know feel about Jesus as Christ.

 

Best wishes

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Thank you all very much for you thoughtful responses. Each single of them was very helpful.

 

james12: You are obviously referring to the objective moral values, yes Im absolutely aware of their existence and agree that they are objective. The problem is that being aware of something is very different from being interested in it.

 

pkstpaul?: You said it exactly right! If I had for example done something horrible (like murder or at least hurt someone) I could have desired to repent and appreciate forgivness and reconcilliation through Christ. The problem is that I havent done anything like that really. I probably did a few minor maybe wrong things in my life (who hasnt?) and I certainly did sin by having sex with all of my girlfriends. But as a lifetime atheist how can I convince myself that it is a sin that I should ask forgivness from?? On atheism there is absolutely no objection towards sex outside marriage. I know that God doesnt want us to do it (and I may even stop doing it) but knowing something and feeling a real psychological guilt is very different. I completly lack the mentality of premarital sex being sinful. So this wont make me want to repent so bad.

Nope Im not from Asia Im from Europe but Id rather not specify where exactly.

 

Anyway you all suggest to continue in what Im doing and express hopes that it will come to me. I myself can see things changing slowly... so thank you again

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  • 2 weeks later...

Excuse my english please as Im not a native speaker.

No problem. Many of us here have had to fight to gain another language. It's not an easy struggle, and we understand the obstacles you face.

Ihope you won't feel too put out when I use my normal vocabulary. It's difficult to tailor this kind of message when you don't even know which language your audience feels comfortable with.

I also hope you can forgive an occasional typo. I spent thirty years as a writer. But that's not the same thing as spending thirty years as a typist.

I always thought that religion was for the weak or emotional ones who cannot cope with their own mortality. I have always been trying to be rational and I enjoy critical thinking. I am also healthy, relatively succesful and overally happy with my life.

I certainly hope we're not weak. Mortality is a fact of life (or of death). We all know that, and we understand the idea "when a man dies, that is the end thereof." We simply reject it. It's not because it is too harsh a reality to accept, but that it is not true.

People who have taken this position often say no one's ever come back from the dead. That's untrue. Jesus of Nazareth did. There were witnesses to His resurreciton, 500 or more. Several of them left testimonials to that fact. There are fifteen men in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA, who know beyond any doubt that this is true, and they give their own witnesses every time they speak in public. I wonder if they do it in private as often, but I have heard some of them speak to small groups, to family and freinds and their words are also of that historic occasion.

Death is the end of this life, but it is not the end of existence.

I simply cannot come into any relationship with God. Ive been recently approached by Mormon Missionary sisters. We discussed much about their faith and they are very nice girls. The problem is that even though I believe that there is a God I seem not to be really interested in him. When the sister talks about the existence of the „Dear heavenly father who loves me“ Im not moved or touched by that at all. ... If I know he exists it should be obvious that I should reach for God but nothing drives me towards him.

You have, indeed, put your finger on the problem. The answer, though, is often seen as too simple to be real. It is real.

Please read in the book of Alma in the Book of Mormon, the story of a man who was in exactly the same philosophical postion as you are. He was the father of a king, and himself a greater king. His son had received the Gospel of Jesus Christ and he, out of necessity had heard the mission of Jesus Christ.

In any case, he prayed this prayer: O God, [the missionaries have] told me that there is a God; and if there is a God, and if thou art God, wilt thou make thyself known unto me, and I will give away all my sins to know thee, and that I may be raised from the dead, and be saved at the last day. (Alma 22:18)

in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-ay Saints, we often refer to Moroni's promise, found in Moroni, chapter 10, verses 4 & 5: And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

Of the four things Moroni requires for an answer to our prayers, the one most often forgotten is "with real intent". It is the most often forgotten, and I believe it is the most important. One prays with real intent when he prays as Lamoni's father did: "... I will give away all my sins to know thee ..." In other words, when you can honestly answer the question "what will you do if you get an answer to this prayer?" with "I will do whatever you want me to do."

Others have told you that your best course is to listen carefully to the missionaries. We do not know them. We wouldn't recognize them in a crowd of a hundred people, but we know that their words are truth because they are working for the Savior, Jesus Christ, and helping Him do the "work and glory" of God Himself: "to bring to pass the immortality and Eternal Life of [sportBilly]."

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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  • 3 weeks later...

Billy, don't be concerned; just be yourself. My husband and I aren't "criers."  We have NEVER had that

"burning in the bosom."  If Heavenly Father gives us an answer, he will stop us from doing something . TEARS AND EMOTIONS are NOT official DOCTRINES in this CHURCH.  Everyone is different. If you believe in GOD, you're there already.  There are many blessings in this Church that NO OTHER Church can offer you. But the choice is all yours. Bless you and best of luck. Tell people you HAVE a TESTIMONY and to LEAVE YOU ALONE. Smile  Cath 

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Thank you all very much for you thoughtful responses. Each single of them was very helpful.

 

james12: You are obviously referring to the objective moral values, yes Im absolutely aware of their existence and agree that they are objective. The problem is that being aware of something is very different from being interested in it.

 

pkstpaul?: You said it exactly right! If I had for example done something horrible (like murder or at least hurt someone) I could have desired to repent and appreciate forgivness and reconcilliation through Christ. The problem is that I havent done anything like that really. I probably did a few minor maybe wrong things in my life (who hasnt?) and I certainly did sin by having sex with all of my girlfriends. But as a lifetime atheist how can I convince myself that it is a sin that I should ask forgivness from?? On atheism there is absolutely no objection towards sex outside marriage. I know that God doesnt want us to do it (and I may even stop doing it) but knowing something and feeling a real psychological guilt is very different. I completly lack the mentality of premarital sex being sinful. So this wont make me want to repent so bad.

Nope Im not from Asia Im from Europe but Id rather not specify where exactly.

 

Anyway you all suggest to continue in what Im doing and express hopes that it will come to me. I myself can see things changing slowly... so thank you again

SportBilly, I just saw your comments... So, you recognize that the universe is governed by moral law but you believe that such a law only applies to you if you do "something horrible" like murder. However, it does not effect you if you have premarital sex or some other action which you deem as minor. Let me ask, how have you determined what is acceptable in your own mind? If murder is not, but sex is ok, why is that so?

 

I submit to you that there is a kingdom which is so far above the governments of man and so far supersedes what can be found on this earth, that a person cannot even live there and partake of it's glories unless he learns how to control himself and lose himself in the service of others. Anything less and he will have no part there for if he were permitted to enter he would destroy the harmony and peace of that place. 

 

Can you conceive of such a place? Would you ever desire to enter in? If not, then you are best left without, and with what you will accept. If you are satisfied with the world as it is, or perhaps slightly better than that is what you will receive, and consequently I believe you will be content there.  

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The people in the church also seem extremly emotional. They say prayers and some of them almost cry after every other sentence. Im not that kind of person.

 

 

Have you thought about why they are crying?  For many this is not just an emotional outburst.

 

====Let me give you an example.  I was recently driving to the temple.  I was on a side street and suddenly the axel broke and the car immediately stopped.  The wheel of the car was jammed up against the bumper, and was frozen in place.  The car could not move at all.

But everything was fine, except in about 15 minutes I would have been on the interstate driving 60 MPH.  If this had happened just a little later, I would not be here talking with you.  The car certainly would have flipped over in a serious accident.

 

=====My teenage daughter had been invited by a couple of guys that she knew from school to drive down to the lake that evening.  She like to run around, but this time she turned them down.  Later she found out that they had invited another girl, then murdered her and burned the body.

 

======My oldest daughter and her husband and family went to a wedding a few miles away from their home.  This wedding had been postponed several times and finally the day came.  One hour after the family left, a tornado struck her neighborhood, it missed all the houses in that neighborhood except hers.  It was totally destroyed down to the foundation.  If they had been in that house, there is no question that they would have been seriously hurt or killed.

 

======My son was working on a construction site in Alabama.  The electrician on the job got a phone call from his wife to leave because there were reports of a tornado.  The rest of the crew wanted to keep working, but they couldn't do anything with their only electrician gone, so they also left.  A short time later a tornado hit the very same area where they were working, and there were several casualties.  He told me that he could see alot of dead bodies when he visited it later.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that the Lord has protected me and my family.  When I pray to Him, am I just "being emotional" if I cry in gratitude for what He has done.

Edited by cdowis
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Guest MormonGator

I'll tell you one thing about crying. It can be revelation. I lost it and started bawling at the Joseph Smith memorial while looking at the statue. It was then I realized he was a prophet. I am convinced it was revelation, hands down. 

Edited by MormonGator
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Sportbilly, hey! 

 

Just wanted to check in with you , Man, and see how you are doing .... 

 

I don't know if I told you but both my husband and I were converts from the Catholic Church as young people. We hadn't met each other yet. I will be honest and say I LOVED many aspects of the LDS Church (I felt GENUINE Christian love here, and caring; I got all involved in the Church music program, I had never had a Church experience like this before,  I felt that 

LDS people were my FAMILY) but, yes, many parts of the LDS faith seemed almost "weird" to  us . (But you have to remember, I had NEVER known a Mormon , even casually, until I met the Missionaries.) 

 

My husband  just reminded me of Saint Paul in the New Testament of the Bible. Paul was so far away from God, that Paul

was going into believers' houses turning them to be killed; that was how far from God his was, and he became one of the GREATEST writers of the Bible.

 

 I also I like Moses in the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament. He escaped from Egypt and didn't know the Lord God Almighty;  he sees this burning bush with God in it that talks to him and he asks who he should say God is ; and God answers. " Tell them I AM THAT I AM SENT YOU., "  meaning GOD  for YOU 

WHATEVER YOU NEED HIM TO BE ."  And here Moses led the entire people of Israel  into the promised land. 

 

Billy, you shouldn't have to worry about this...Heavenly Father has A HOLD of YOUR HAND or you wouldn't even have been interested in this Church, so it's NOT up to you to try to find God.

 

For me, it was like my marriage. When my dear spouse proposed to me, we had only known each other for 4 months and we had only dated 4 or 5 times. I was fairly sure I loved him and that it was God's will we marry immediately (other older people told us they believed we should as well)  but I was ONLY about 80 %  sure.

After our first anniversary, I was 90% sure, after the second, 95% sure, and so on. At on anniversary on Thanksgiving, I can say for absolute certainty,  after looking back to several "signs" I did NOT see at the time,   that it WAS GOD'S  TOTAL WILL for My Dear Husband and I to MARRY for TIME and ALL ETERNITY. 

 

Good luck, find peace, and God bless you! 

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I felt as you do "I don't care" when I was a teenager. My parents had "life style issues" so I spent as much time as possible at a friends house. Her parents were Mormon. They gave me the discussions and I took them as the price of a bed for the night. I started reading the BOM and found it fascinating. That was the route for me. I loved Jesus the Christ and the Miracle of Forgiveness.

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