Theological Arguments for Zionism (Supporting Israel as Signficant to God)

[prisonchaplain 5695]

Here is an interesting, astute article advocating for national Israel's existence and importance to God, from both a Jewish and Christian perspective.

 

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/10/15889/

[Crypto 534]

The Jewish perspective for Israel seemed pretty straight forward. The Christian one i'm going to have to re-read, probably didn't help it was late at night and I was falling asleep xD

Sometimes I think peoples opinions on Israel have less to do with their religious beliefs and more of their political. Which in some cases (where as a natural extension of what someone professes to believe they should support or not support Israel) goes to show a worrying trend of valuing political beliefs before belief of God.

[Guest]

I have a strong religious belief that would support the Nation of Israel.  But my political arguments to justify how it came to be etc. are weaker.

[prisonchaplain 5695]

The Jewish perspective for Israel seemed pretty straight forward. The Christian one i'm going to have to re-read, probably didn't help it was late at night and I was falling asleep xD

Sometimes I think peoples opinions on Israel have less to do with their religious beliefs and more of their political. Which in some cases (where as a natural extension of what someone professes to believe they should support or not support Israel) goes to show a worrying trend of valuing political beliefs before belief of God.

 

I would argue just the opposite.  Christians, like myself, support Israel in large part because we believe its re-establishment fulfills biblical prophecy, and signals the end of time.  On a basic level, the OT proclaims that God will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse it.  Pro-Palestinians would complain that we are allowing our religious interpretations to trump our political common sense--not the reverse.

[Crypto 534]

I would argue just the opposite.  Christians, like myself, support Israel in large part because we believe its re-establishment fulfills biblical prophecy, and signals the end of time.  On a basic level, the OT proclaims that God will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse it.  Pro-Palestinians would complain that we are allowing our religious interpretations to trump our political common sense--not the reverse.

My perspective is probably because I keep seeming to interact with religious people who contrary to their religious beliefs don't support Israel.

 

Even if the pro-Palestinian narrative is the opposite, it's not what i've experienced. Overall it may not be the case, but at least in my limited perspective, it's what i've experienced.

[Guest]

I have a question about the article.  It mentioned that some Old Testament prophecies indicated that the "Return of the Jews" required that the Gentiles would come to Israel to study the Torah.

 

Where are these prophecies found and where does it mention the gentiles studying Torah?

 

 

It is times like this (after reading an article like this) where I notice why other Christians think we mess things up.  Much of the article's Christian arguments seem obscure.  But in light of what LDS theology says on the matter, it is quite clear what is going on.

[prisonchaplain 5695]

Maybe those Christians who are anti-Zionists tend to use more political and historical analyses, while those of us who are Christian Zionists look more to the Bible for our support.  As for Gentiles studying the Torah, perhaps that excerpt could be quoted here--if it's small enough?  I didn't find it.  However, I would point out that the Messianic Jewish movement is largely composed of Gentiles who want to study and observe Torah more.  This is a relatively new movement.

 

http://www.messianicgentiles.com/welcome.html

Edited October 26, 2015 by prisonchaplain

[Guest]

The quote is the last line in the 5th to last paragraph:

This last coming is the meaning of a long string of Old Testament prophecies that speak of the return of Jews to the land, a time when Gentiles shall come to Israel to learn Torah.

 

I'm familiar with the Messianic Jewish movement.  A Christian friend decided that he and his family should follow that path.  He put on a yarmulke and tzitzis.  He set out a phylactery at his front door.  He looked, well, Jewish.

 

I found that to be in direct contrast with what Mormon theology said about the purpose of the Law and its fulfillment by the Messiah.  But he wasn't LDS, so...

Edited October 27, 2015 by Guest

[prisonchaplain 5695]

Okay...I re-read that section.  The belief of Barth is that when Jesus returns, both Israel and the world shall be reconciled to God, and Gentiles shall learn God's laws.

[Guest]

Well, I interpreted his statements to mean that the Gentiles learning Torah will precede Jesus' return.  That is what I was wondering about.  And where is that written in the Old Testament?

 

 

...Uhmm... It's in the Old Testament... somewhere...

Edited October 27, 2015 by Guest

[mordorbund 4549]

It's probably based on Micah 4:2.

[Guest]

I suppose we know how LDS would interpret that.

[Just_A_Guy 12683]

Well, as I recall, Talmage (in Articles of Faith) basically uses it to justify a millennial two-capital theory--something to the effect that earth's spiritual affairs are administered from Jerusalem and its temporal affairs are administered from Zion (Jackson County, MIssouri), or vice-versa.

[Guest]

My statement was rhetorical, JAG. But, yes, I believe that is the common belief.

[Traveler 4241]

Maybe those Christians who are anti-Zionists tend to use more political and historical analyses, while those of us who are Christian Zionists look more to the Bible for our support.  As for Gentiles studying the Torah, perhaps that excerpt could be quoted here--if it's small enough?  I didn't find it.  However, I would point out that the Messianic Jewish movement is largely composed of Gentiles who want to study and observe Torah more.  This is a relatively new movement.

 

http://www.messianicgentiles.com/welcome.html

 

I would reference Isaiah 29

 

This chapter summarizes my understanding of Zionism - that comes from my studies and from prophets - not scholars or theologians - but prophets that have spoken words of prophesy that ancient prophesy is being fulfilled.  Not by mankind thinking they understand G-d and his works in the last days but G-d that will according to his words:  "I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder:"  A work that cannot be understood as prophesy without the Book of Mormon - which is also part of this prophesy of G-d's marvellous work and a wonder.  Without the Book of Mormon "It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion."

 

The state of Israel is a small part of Zion - that Danial prophesied would be liken unto a stone cut from a mountain without hands - at the time when the Roman empire shall be week and divided into 10 kingdoms - like iron mixed with clay.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Traveler

[Fran 5]

I do not consider myself a Zionist. I have visited Israel many times and there is such a special feeling there, you can really understand why it is called the Holy Land !

 

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict should never impact the history of the land : it was the home of the Jewish People and Jesus. G-d has given the Land (remember that the actual borders of the State of Israel aren't those in the Bible : some parts of the Land currently belong to the neighbor countries, the biblical land was much bigger than now) and if we are believer in the Bible it is natural to make sure to protect this land and keep the spiritual attachment to it.

 

Just look around Israel and see how the Arab countries treat Christians and have treated Jews (they have expelled Jews when the State of Israel was created, even if the Jews living in those countries wished to remain where their ancestors lived for so long).

 

If we want the History of the Bible to be preserved and safe we MUST support the State of Israel to remain in control of those sites (beginning of the month Palestinian extremists burnt out the grave of one of our forefather, common to the three monotheist religions, but too blind with hatred to see that they aren't only causing pain and sorrow to the jewish people).

 

The world is mostly against Israel because of centuries old antisemitism. If antisemitism is punishable in most countries and is considered hatred, antizionism isn't and now people use it as an excuse so spread more and more judeophobia.

The Arab world does not care for the Palestinian People, just see how they have been treated as refugees in the surrounding countries such as Lebanon, Syria, Jordan or Egypt (and Egypt really does not want them ! they are fighting side by side with the State of Israel against palestinian terrorism). We see it everyday, protests and condamnations are toward Israel but the rest of the arab world suffers tremendously and everyday minorities of these countries are being raped enslaved tortured and murdered. The ISIS is destroying all vestiges and proof of the past : the Assyrians have lost their culture in those countries, they are coming forward to Israel to do the same thing : erase all traces of jewish and biblical presence on earth !

Let's not repeat history.

 

Now that does not mean being 100% pro Israel and agree with everything because like any other country there are pros and cons. Bein pro Israel shouldn't make anyone blind and we should be understanding that the conflict has both sides and there are those who want peace but are unheard voices amongts the extremists on each side.

But truly, if I had to choose between being pro Palestinian and pro Israeli I would definately choose the second one because I have seen it many times : over there Israelis come from so many countries, there are so many ethnicities, religions they all live as equal citizens, whether they are Jews, Arabs (Christians and Muslims) or none of them... This is truly the fault of the medias to non stop protraying the death and the blood of Israelis and Palestinians instead of focusing on what REAL life is !

[Traveler 4241]

I do not consider myself a Zionist. I have visited Israel many times and there is such a special feeling there, you can really understand why it is called the Holy Land !

 

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict should never impact the history of the land : it was the home of the Jewish People and Jesus. G-d has given the Land (remember that the actual borders of the State of Israel aren't those in the Bible : some parts of the Land currently belong to the neighbor countries, the biblical land was much bigger than now) and if we are believer in the Bible it is natural to make sure to protect this land and keep the spiritual attachment to it.

 

Just look around Israel and see how the Arab countries treat Christians and have treated Jews (they have expelled Jews when the State of Israel was created, even if the Jews living in those countries wished to remain where their ancestors lived for so long).

 

If we want the History of the Bible to be preserved and safe we MUST support the State of Israel to remain in control of those sites (beginning of the month Palestinian extremists burnt out the grave of one of our forefather, common to the three monotheist religions, but too blind with hatred to see that they aren't only causing pain and sorrow to the jewish people).

 

The world is mostly against Israel because of centuries old antisemitism. If antisemitism is punishable in most countries and is considered hatred, antizionism isn't and now people use it as an excuse so spread more and more judeophobia.

The Arab world does not care for the Palestinian People, just see how they have been treated as refugees in the surrounding countries such as Lebanon, Syria, Jordan or Egypt (and Egypt really does not want them ! they are fighting side by side with the State of Israel against palestinian terrorism). We see it everyday, protests and condamnations are toward Israel but the rest of the arab world suffers tremendously and everyday minorities of these countries are being raped enslaved tortured and murdered. The ISIS is destroying all vestiges and proof of the past : the Assyrians have lost their culture in those countries, they are coming forward to Israel to do the same thing : erase all traces of jewish and biblical presence on earth !

Let's not repeat history.

 

Now that does not mean being 100% pro Israel and agree with everything because like any other country there are pros and cons. Bein pro Israel shouldn't make anyone blind and we should be understanding that the conflict has both sides and there are those who want peace but are unheard voices amongts the extremists on each side.

But truly, if I had to choose between being pro Palestinian and pro Israeli I would definately choose the second one because I have seen it many times : over there Israelis come from so many countries, there are so many ethnicities, religions they all live as equal citizens, whether they are Jews, Arabs (Christians and Muslims) or none of them... This is truly the fault of the medias to non stop protraying the death and the blood of Israelis and Palestinians instead of focusing on what REAL life is !

 

I think you are missing something.  G-d will fulfill his prophesies and his promises regardless of any Christian supporting (helping fund) the current State of Israel or not.