Temple Endowment

[SarahPasley]

Hey so I'm LDS and I've been trying to receive my endowment but my Bishop keeps changing his mind. How do I handle this?

He said I would be able to go through, and then he requested temple prep, and then all church meetings and doing my calling, and now he needs me to have good grades and prove to him that I have good grades. I just don't see how it's relevant. He's changed his mind so many times that I just don't know what to do. I really want to go through and I've been working so hard. He knows everything I've done preparing and it just seems to me that this isn't relevant. 

 

 

He signed my recommend!!! I should be receiving endowment on Friday!!!

Edited November 3, 2015 by SarahPasley

[The Folk Prophet]

...and now he needs me to have good grades and prove to him that I have good grades.

 

How do I handle this?

 

You get good grades and prove it to him.

[Just_A_Guy]

Hey so I'm LDS and I've been trying to receive my endowment but my Bishop keeps changing his mind. How do I handle this?

He said I would be able to go through, and then he requested temple prep, and then all church meetings and doing my calling, and now he needs me to have good grades and prove to him that I have good grades. I just don't see how it's relevant. He's changed his mind so many times that I just don't know what to do. I really want to go through and I've been working so hard. He knows everything I've done preparing and it just seems to me that this isn't relevant. 

 

 

The temple endowment is sweeping in its scope and application, and its covenants boil down to a solemn promise to live a consecrated life in every particular.  That is not something one does lightly. 

 

When doing a standard temple recommend interview, there are certain boundaries beyond which a priesthood leader isn't authorized to enquire.  However, I believe bishops and stake presidents have a lot more discretion in deciding whether to issue a "own-ordinance" recommend. 

 

Certainly a "please help me to understand how this information helps us to move forward" attitude can be very productive, but beware of crossing over into the "Bishop, this is none of your business--now, give me my recommend!" realm.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[David13]

The way we live our lives, and every aspect of our lives is indeed all relevant, as I see it.

That's what the Words of Wisdom is all about, isn't it?

And that's also why they ask (for fathers who are divorced) 'did you pay your child supprt', etc.  It's all relevant.

dc

[Guest]

my Bishop keeps changing his mind. 

 

He's changed his mind so many times that I just don't know what to do.

 

How constant have you been during all this?

[james12]

Is the Bishop you Dad?

[BeccaKirstyn]

I'd have to ask why have grades come up in your discussion with him? Obviously this has to have been a previous discussion if he's bringing it up. I do think it's a little weird, but I don't know the whole context of the scenario. 

[Anddenex]

Hey so I'm LDS and I've been trying to receive my endowment but my Bishop keeps changing his mind. How do I handle this?

He said I would be able to go through, and then he requested temple prep, and then all church meetings and doing my calling, and now he needs me to have good grades and prove to him that I have good grades. I just don't see how it's relevant. He's changed his mind so many times that I just don't know what to do. I really want to go through and I've been working so hard. He knows everything I've done preparing and it just seems to me that this isn't relevant. 

 

 

A concept you might already be familiar with, though it stands to be repeated, our temple endowment is not a right of passage.  In light of the steps the bishop has currently provided:

 

1) Temple Prep -- definitely a good thing

 

2) Attend all Church meetings -- seems appropriate as one of the questions for a temple recommend is whether or not you attend all your meetings.  This may also highlight some of your history, have you not been fully active?  If not, the bishop is clearly helping you to recognize that a temple endowment is sacred with covenant and responsibility.

 

3) Magnify your calling -- reread #2 thoughts, or simply remember.

 

4) Good grades -- puzzled?  Not sure why good grades would keep a person from attending the temple, and brings back to my remembrance, I believe general conference or a stake conference address about the uneducated wife of a newly called leader who was given comfort specifying her education was enough.

 

The first three items appears to me that you have a wise bishop who is seeking to help you learn line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept, necessary, faithful, actions by which you prove to the Lord, not the bishop, that you are ready to receive your own endowment.  I don't see any change of mind.  What I see, is an individual who felt the first step was the only step and wasn't fully aware of what receiving an endowment fully entails.  

 

The fourth item, as mentioned puzzles me; however, how would you handle this?  A scripture enters into my mind and I would recommend you read, Alma 7: 24, "And see that ye have faith, hope, and charity, and then ye will always abound in good works."

 

If a temple endowment is your heart's desire, and this desire is promoted by pure and virtuous intentions, then continue to walk in faith and hope by adhering to your bishop's counsel.  Allow the spirit of the Lord to work within your soul that your heart says, like King Laman, "I will give away all my sins" to receive my endowment.  Be cheerful, not impatient, waiting upon the Lord's blessing.

 

Then as you walk in faith and hope, exercise charity toward your bishop.  An imperfect servant of God who is trying to do his best before God and before his fellow brother or sister.  Exercise your faith, hope, and charity in prayer that your heart will be softened and your spirit contrite.

 

Also, if the demands become more puzzling -- demands outside of the temple recommend questions -- you can always speak with a member of the stake presidency.  Speak with them about your desire, about what you have done, and about your love for the Lord and his gospel.  Speak with them about what actions you have taken thus far, what your bishop has given as requirements, and if they think anything else is missing or that you are ready.  

 

The Lord bless you in your efforts, and may your efforts and intentions be pure and virtuous. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Anddenex

[Vort]

I have a different question, Sarah. Why are you seeking your endowment?

 

Traditionally, women received their endowment right before getting married. With the increase in women serving as missionaries, which requires that they have received their endowment, many young women are now receiving their endowment well before they marry -- but that is because they are serving a mission. (Young men who do not serve a mission typically do not receive their endowment until they marry.) The policies have also been changed in the last decade or two to allow and even encourage unmarried sisters over 30 or so, as well as sisters married to non-Latter-day Saints, to receive their endowment.

 

But if you are stil lin school, it sounds like you are quite young, mid-20s or younger. (Your profile says you are only 20.) I assume you are unmarried. If you were engaged and planning a temple wedding or were working toward serving a mission, I doubt this would be an issue, so I suppose you are neither engaged nor planning on serving a mission. If all these suppositions are correct, then I'm wondering what's on your mind that you feel such a passionate need to receive your endowment. (I also wonder if the bishop is wondering about this same thing.)

[BeccaKirstyn]

I have a different question, Sarah. Why are you seeking your endowment?

 

Traditionally, women received their endowment right before getting married. With the increase in women serving as missionaries, which requires that they have received their endowment, many young women are now receiving their endowment well before they marry -- but that is because they are serving a mission. (Young men who do not serve a mission typically do not receive their endowment until they marry.) The policies have also been changed in the last decade or two to allow and even encourage unmarried sisters over 30 or so, as well as sisters married to non-Latter-day Saints, to receive their endowment.

 

But if you are stil lin school, it sounds like you are quite young, mid-20s or younger. (Your profile says you are only 20.) I assume you are unmarried. If you were engaged and planning a temple wedding or were working toward serving a mission, I doubt this would be an issue, so I suppose you are neither engaged nor planning on serving a mission. If all these suppositions are correct, then I'm wondering what's on your mind that you feel such a passionate need to receive your endowment. (I also wonder if the bishop is wondering about this same thing.)

I hope this is more about her intentions to receive her endowment, rather than pointing out that she is neither married nor going on a mission but requesting to receive her endowment (which is not "tradition"). My own personal bias is overshadowing my reasoning while reading your post, but I'm trying to look it at from your perspective. 

[The Folk Prophet]

I hope this is more about her intentions to receive her endowment, rather than pointing out that she is neither married nor going on a mission but requesting to receive her endowment (which is not "tradition"). My own personal bias is overshadowing my reasoning while reading your post, but I'm trying to look it at from your perspective.

What use is this bias? Men also do not traditionally receive the endowment until they are going on a mission or getting married either.

The question stands.

Edited October 28, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[BeccaKirstyn]

What use is this bias? Men also do not traditionally receive the endowment until they are going on a mission or getting married either.

The question stands.

Tradition. Culture. Norms. They are all much different than doctrine. Doctrine about this subject is about personal revelation, both for yourself and received by your bishop for you, about when the appropriate time is to receive your endowment. Subjective experiences do not have to be compared to "traditional" norms in order to justify such decisions. Going back to my original point, I am hoping the topic of "tradition" was brought up in order to identify the personal, heartfelt intentions for this decision, posed out of curiosity by Vort, rather than comparison to norms. 

[Guest]

Tradition. Culture. Norms...

 

In this case, it is at least enough to ask the question.  If it is not "the norm", what is the driving force?

 

And being non-standard, it would make me as a bishop want to raise the standard a little bit.  There is a reason age 30 is the recommended age.  If you want it earlier, then you need to jump through some extra hoops.

 

That's how I'd see it.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

OMT.  

 

Sarah,

 

I personally am ID-theft-o-phobic.  I would recommend not putting your actual birthdate anywhere that strangers can see.  If given the option, I omit it.  If I have to include it, I'll often enter a fake date.

[Anddenex]

I hope this is more about her intentions to receive her endowment, rather than pointing out that she is neither married nor going on a mission but requesting to receive her endowment (which is not "tradition"). My own personal bias is overshadowing my reasoning while reading your post, but I'm trying to look it at from your perspective. 

 

BeccaKirstyn,

 

Vort's opening question emphasizes the intent of his statement, "Why are you seeking an endowment," and highlights "intentions" rather than gender and marriage.  He poses questions which are already posed by those who hold keys to the priesthood, and yes, which a person should be compared to.

[Vort]

I hope this is more about her intentions to receive her endowment, rather than pointing out that she is neither married nor going on a mission but requesting to receive her endowment (which is not "tradition"). My own personal bias is overshadowing my reasoning while reading your post, but I'm trying to look it at from your perspective. 

 

BeccaKirstyn, I appreciate your self-awareness. We all have our personal biases, and I appreciate when someone is aware enough to recognize that, as you so aptly put it, "my own personal bias is overshadowing my reasoning." I also appreciate that you are willing to ask my intentions rather than jump to the conclusion toward which your personal bias pushes you.

 

Look at it this way: A 20-year-old male acquaintance who has said he is not planning to serve a mission or get married asks you why the bishop seems reluctant to give him a temple recommend for receiving his own endowment. He tells you the bishop has asked him about some seemingly unrelated conditions, such as his GPA. Would not one of your first questions to him be, "Well, since you're not planning to serve a mission or marry, WHY are you trying to get your endowment?" That just seems the obvious question.

 

True, the endowment is a necessary covenant for exaltation. But we receive our endowment when the time is right. A fifteen-year-old could receive her endowment (or his endowment, if he had the Priesthood, which has been done before), but we normally would never do such a thing, because for the overwhelming majority of fifteen-year-olds, the time is not right for that step.

 

(I also recognize that my example posits a 20-year-old man who is not fulfilling his Priesthood responsibility to serve a mission, which would affect the equation. For the purposes of my example, we might suppose that the young man in question has a health condition of some sort for which he has been honorably dismissed from missionary service. Is "Well, all my friends are endowed, and I feel left out" sufficient reason for a bishop to sign off on taking such an important step? Cleary not.)

 

I am trying to think of a situation where it would make perfect sense for a 20-year-old woman to seek her own endowment who is neither planning marriage nor preparing for full-time missionary service. The only marginally realistic ideas (and they are pretty marginal) that I'm coming up with are:

1. A young woman has a terminal disease that will claim her life in a short time, and she sees no reason to wait for proxy work after her impending death to receive an endowment that she can get for herself while alive.

    

2. A young woman has some sort of condition that makes it extraordinarily unlikely that she can ever marry or even contemplate full-time missionary service. She is also very mature for her age, and feels she is at a stage in her life where she wants or needs those covenants and sees no reason to wait to reach an arbitrary age that appears not even to be well-defined.

In such situations, I can understand why the young woman would be seeking to receive her endowment at age 20. But such situations would be very unlikely.

 

We are not Catholic; we do not consider "holy tradition" to be equal in force to revealed doctrine. But we do things in the Church for good reason, not because we rolled a die to decide. There are good reasons we do not normally provide the covenants of the endowment to children or young men/women. There are good reasons why we wait until there is a specific condition that requires the endowment (mission or marriage) before bestowing it. I do not know all those reasons, and I am not a bishop. But my ignorance doesn't mean the reasons aren't there. The idea that "I should get my endowment in a non-traditional situation because I just want them" (or "because it's not fair if I don't" or "because my brother got his at this age" or something like that) is prima facie evidence that the individual is not prepared to make those covenants.

 

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from in my question.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Vort

[The Folk Prophet]

Tradition. Culture. Norms. They are all much different than doctrine. Doctrine about this subject is about personal revelation, both for yourself and received by your bishop for you, about when the appropriate time is to receive your endowment. Subjective experiences do not have to be compared to "traditional" norms in order to justify such decisions. Going back to my original point, I am hoping the topic of "tradition" was brought up in order to identify the personal, heartfelt intentions for this decision, posed out of curiosity by Vort, rather than comparison to norms. 

 

I see. Your bias is against tradition? I had presumed it was a "feminist" thing. Which renders my response invalid.

[SarahPasley]

It's just that this has lasted 4 months. He said I only had to do temple prep and my calling and church meetings and then he changed his mind a week later to him having an issue with something else. It just seems like I can't do anything right. I've read a dozen temple books and talked to my hometeachers and my visiting teachers. I did temple prep and the gospel principles and gospel doctrine books. I just don't see what else I can do to prove I'm ready. My grades are good and I'm happy to show them but I just want some help understanding.

[SarahPasley]

I have a different question, Sarah. Why are you seeking your endowment?

 

Traditionally, women received their endowment right before getting married. With the increase in women serving as missionaries, which requires that they have received their endowment, many young women are now receiving their endowment well before they marry -- but that is because they are serving a mission. (Young men who do not serve a mission typically do not receive their endowment until they marry.) The policies have also been changed in the last decade or two to allow and even encourage unmarried sisters over 30 or so, as well as sisters married to non-Latter-day Saints, to receive their endowment.

 

But if you are stil lin school, it sounds like you are quite young, mid-20s or younger. (Your profile says you are only 20.) I assume you are unmarried. If you were engaged and planning a temple wedding or were working toward serving a mission, I doubt this would be an issue, so I suppose you are neither engaged nor planning on serving a mission. If all these suppositions are correct, then I'm wondering what's on your mind that you feel such a passionate need to receive your endowment. (I also wonder if the bishop is wondering about this same thing.)

I was prompted to work on this attending the Temple in July. I really want to be able to serve in the Temple and there's a dozen other reasons. I have been very prayerful about it and everytime I go to the Temple and ask what to work on, this is the answer. This is the next step to progress, I've been so excited about this. It's the one thing I want most in the world. Endowment is really important to me. 

[Jane_Doe]

It's just that this has lasted 4 months. He said I only had to do temple prep and my calling and church meetings and then he changed his mind a week later to him having an issue with something else. It just seems like I can't do anything right. I've read a dozen temple books and talked to my hometeachers and my visiting teachers. I did temple prep and the gospel principles and gospel doctrine books. I just don't see what else I can do to prove I'm ready. My grades are good and I'm happy to show them but I just want some help understanding.

 

Have you asked your bishop why the sudden extra requirements?

[BeccaKirstyn]

 

 

I am trying to think of a situation where it would make perfect sense for a 20-year-old woman to seek her own endowment who is neither planning marriage nor preparing for full-time missionary service. The only marginally realistic ideas (and they are pretty marginal) that I'm coming up with are:

1. A young woman has a terminal disease that will claim her life in a short time, and she sees no reason to wait for proxy work after her impending death to receive an endowment that she can get for herself while alive.

    

2. A young woman has some sort of condition that makes it extraordinarily unlikely that she can ever marry or even contemplate full-time missionary service. She is also very mature for her age, and feels she is at a stage in her life where she wants or needs those covenants and sees no reason to wait to reach an arbitrary age that appears not even to be well-defined.

In such situations, I can understand why the young woman would be seeking to receive her endowment at age 20. But such situations would be very unlikely.

 

We are not Catholic; we do not consider "holy tradition" to be equal in force to revealed doctrine. But we do things in the Church for good reason, not because we rolled a die to decide. There are good reasons we do not normally provide the covenants of the endowment to children or young men/women. There are good reason why we wait until there is a specific condition that requires the endowment (mission or marriage) before bestowing it. I do not know all those reasons, and I am not a bishop. But my ignorance doesn't mean the reasons aren't there. The idea that "I should get my endowment in a non-traditional situation because I just want them" (or "because it's not fair if I don't" or "because my brother got his at this age" or something like that) is prima facie evidence that the individual is not prepared to make those covenants.

 

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from in my question.

Thanks for the response. I totally get where you're coming from and agree with your examples given of situations where the individual is seeking out the endowment for the wrong reasons. In regards to the 2 reasons you gave above as to why you think a young woman, who is neither serving a mission or getting married, should receive her endowment, let me give you a personal example.

 

I am what you would consider a "young woman" (I'll forgo giving my age due to my own knowledge of not giving out that kind of personal information on the internet). I have prayed to ask if I should serve a mission. The answer I received was no. I have dated for quite awhile, but in my current circumstance, I am not in any sort of serious relationship. About a year ago I received a strong spiritual impression after a prayer of "what am I doing with my life??" to specifically "go through the temple". It struck me, and I of course pondered upon it for many more weeks. I continued to pray about what this spiritual impression meant, and for awhile I was truly preparing to enter the temple to receive my endowment. I started going to temple prep classes. Then Satan got in the way, convinced me I was nowhere near worthy to commit to such a covenant and that I was not ready, and I stopped pursuing that spiritual impression.

 

Fast forward to 3 months ago, I was speaking to my bishop casually about my life (he was a relatively new bishop, but we had conversed before), and I was speaking about my spiritual growth and other circumstances that were going to be happening (leaving across the country for Grad school) and the first thing he said was "have you considered preparing to enter the temple?" It struck my heart. I told him about my experience about 9 months prior and he encouraged me to continue my temple preparation and to let him know when I was ready to set up an interview.

 

Now I do have to say: I am not an ordinary 20 something young woman. Not to be prideful or boast about myself, but I am an extremely mature person with my head on my shoulders. I was brought up by amazing parents. They noticed my spiritual growth early on and were not surprised at this spiritual impression I received, or the one my bishop received that day, for me to prepare to enter the temple. So this circumstance will not be the "rule", but the exception to it. But I have no doubt that there are other young women in my same scenario, who are spiritually ready for that covenant. 

 

In the end this decision is between an individual and The Lord (and their bishop when they want to bring it to his attention). If they are spiritually ready for such a decision, they will be able to decipher the whispering of the Spirit of whether or not this is the right time for them to make those covenants. For me, I received that impression and I am incredibly grateful I heeded that prompting. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Thanks for the response. I totally get where you're coming from and agree with your examples given of situations where the individual is seeking out the endowment for the wrong reasons. In regards to the 2 reasons you gave above as to why you think a young woman, who is neither serving a mission or getting married, should receive her endowment, let me give you a personal example.

 

I am what you would consider a "young woman" (I'll forgo giving my age due to my own knowledge of not giving out that kind of personal information on the internet). I have prayed to ask if I should serve a mission. The answer I received was no. I have dated for quite awhile, but in my current circumstance, I am not in any sort of serious relationship. About a year ago I received a strong spiritual impression after a prayer of "what am I doing with my life??" to specifically "go through the temple". It struck me, and I of course pondered upon it for many more weeks. I continued to pray about what this spiritual impression meant, and for awhile I was truly preparing to enter the temple to receive my endowment. I started going to temple prep classes. Then Satan got in the way, convinced me I was nowhere near worthy to commit to such a covenant and that I was not ready, and I stopped pursuing that spiritual impression.

 

Fast forward to 3 months ago, I was speaking to my bishop casually about my life (he was a relatively new bishop, but we had conversed before), and I was speaking about my spiritual growth and other circumstances that were going to be happening (leaving across the country for Grad school) and the first thing he said was "have you considered preparing to enter the temple?" It struck my heart. I told him about my experience about 9 months prior and he encouraged me to continue my temple preparation and to let him know when I was ready to set up an interview.

 

Now I do have to say: I am not an ordinary 20 something young woman. Not to be prideful or boast about myself, but I am an extremely mature person with my head on my shoulders. I was brought up by amazing parents. They noticed my spiritual growth early on and were not surprised at this spiritual impression I received, or the one my bishop received that day, for me to prepare to enter the temple. So this circumstance will not be the "rule", but the exception to it. But I have no doubt that there are other young women in my same scenario, who are spiritually ready for that covenant. 

 

In the end this decision is between an individual and The Lord (and their bishop when they want to bring it to his attention). If they are spiritually ready for such a decision, they will be able to decipher the whispering of the Spirit of whether or not this is the right time for them to make those covenants. For me, I received that impression and I am incredibly grateful I heeded that prompting. 

 

My wife's response was something along these lines. There are, without doubt, exceptions to the "tradition", and the bishop and member have the right to discretion in the matter. But the bishop is part of that discretion. A member may not determine on their own that it is time. If a bishop sets requirements, that is the bishop's prerogative, no matter what prompting the individual feels they may have had on the matter.

[Guest]

Sarah,

 

I'll give a related example to this current situation.

 

My brother-in-law was 16 when he sought a patriarchal blessing.  Everyone else in his family had sought it around 14 to 16 years.  The bishop said for him to fast and pray about it.  So he did.  He sought out the bishop again.

 

The bishop told him to study up on it.  There is not much mention in the scriptures on patriarchal blessings.  He'd covered a couple general conference addresses on the topic (this was before the internet made everything available).  And he found only one book at Deseret Book that he could find on the topic.  (That gives me the idea that we ought to write a book).

 

On his own, he fasted and prayed some more.  The bishop then said, "I think you need to study up on it some more."

 

B.I.L. : I told you that I've done all the searching I can.  I've read everything I can find.  What more do you want me to study?"

 

Bish: Just study some more.

 

My b.i.l. was left to himself wondering what on earth he was supposed to do.  He did nothing but waited for a few months.  Then he mentioned it to the bishop in passing, "Can I meet with you about my patriarchal blessing?"

 

"Oh! Yes.  Let's get that set up for you."  The bishop filled out the form and made some contacts.  B.i.l. went to the patriarch and received his blessing.

 

That side of the family is extremely spiritual and all about the Church.  This boy was probably the one who was the straightest arrow of all.  He had his eye on the glory of God all of his life and on virtually nothing else.  I still can't explain what this was all about.  But in the end it was much ado about nothing.  Jumped through all the hoops until he received his blessing.

 

Maybe you're just worrying about it too much.  Nothing he's requesting seems absurd.  Even the grades thing could be justified depending on what he's thinking and your particular circumstances.  I wouldn't have a problem doing them myself if that was required.

 

So just do them and see whatever other hoops he's got.  Eventually, you'll receive your endowment.

[Vort]

I was prompted to work on this attending the Temple in July. I really want to be able to serve in the Temple and there's a dozen other reasons. I have been very prayerful about it and everytime I go to the Temple and ask what to work on, this is the answer. This is the next step to progress, I've been so excited about this. It's the one thing I want most in the world. Endowment is really important to me. 

 

If you feel prompted, then that is reason to push ahead. But part of that equation is your bishop, who has the divine assignment to help you prepare and to decide if and when the time is right. I see nothing wrong with asking the bishop what's up, why grades are important for such a decison, or whatever, but I do think it's wise to let him do his job regarding this issue and not question his competence or sincerity.

[SarahPasley]

I didn't ask because I'm rather new to the church. I was baptized last November which puts in sharper contrast the weirdness of the situation. The first presidency has granted special permission to receive endowment before my year at the discretion of the stake president and bishop. I wasn't sure if I was allowed to ask him why about the new requirements. I wasn't sure what the proper way to go about that was. I didn't want it to come across like I was questioning his judgement. I'm happy to do whatever it takes to receive endowment but I just don't know how long this process should take.