R-rated and PG-13 movies


JojoBag
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What about R-rated and PG-13 movies? Can we watch any of them, some of them or none of them?

 

Personally, I don't watch any R-rated movies and the overwhelming majority of PG-13 movies. For that matter, I don't watch the majority of PG movies. Why, you might or might not ask? Because by my estimate about 99.9999999% of R-rated movies, 99% of PG-13 rated and 95% of PG movies contain inappropriate content.

 

I guess, I should define what I consider “inappropriate content.” Anything that does not conform to the Gospel standards is inappropriate. Pretty simple, huh?

 

Probably the single biggest offender is how the characters are immodestly dressed. Let me also define what is immodest. I'm not talking about the definition used by the world or even by many church members who are influenced by the ways of the world. I'm talking about the definition as demonstrated by the Church leaders. Clothing that is tight, as in anything that, because of the type of fabric, cut, and style, is designed to show off the figure, curves, shape, whatever of a man or woman (which is the vast majority of all clothing); clothing that is above the knee when a person sits down or shows too much chest (male or female), even if it does not show cleavage. Other inappropriate things are swearing, gratuitous violence, sexual innuendo, vulgarity, etc.

 

I figure that if something is inappropriate for a child of any age, it is inappropriate for an adult. Especially since we are to become like a child.

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Guest MormonGator

I have no problem watching R rated movies if they have artistic merit. IE-Schindlers List or Saving Private Ryan, or The Wrestler (just the first three that came to my mind, I am sure there are others) 


I totally agree with everyone here. There is so much garbage out there and people have forgotten what "art" is.  

 

And I'm a grown man who can separate fantasy from reality. I wouldn't let a kid watch those movies. No way. 

Edited by MormonGator
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I don't watch R-rated movies. I used to, but I haven't for decades now, and don't plan to start again. I will occasionally watch a Bowdlerized version on TV, but even then, I often wish I hadn't. (E.g. I watched the end of the truly awful movie adaptation of the excellent Heinlein novel Starship Troopers. The absurd and cartoonish violence was so over-the-top, like Robocop on steroids, that I instantly regretted it.) (E.g. I watched about the last third of a TV version of Saving Private Ryan. I understand why many consider it to be a phenomenal movie, but I wish I hadn't watched it. I expect it gives a very real portrayal of the horror and hellishness of war, but I'm not sure I am a better person in any way for having experienced it.)

 

I do watch PG-13 movies, but I very often regret it. Maybe I should add them to my "do-not-watch" list.

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The handbook doesn't say don't watch <insert rating here> movies.  They changed that recently.  Now they say do not watch inappropriate movies.  This is good because then we are not dependent on other people's standards to determine if it's appropriate or not.  We depend on our own judgment to determine if it's appropriate or not.

 

Each of us, of course, have different understanding of what's appropriate and it will reflect on our choice of entertainment.

 

I watched American Sniper - rated R - and thought it was a great movie that I watched it 4 more times in the theater.

 

But the final battle scene of X-Men: First Class - rated PG-13 - when Magneto killed Shaw was very disturbing to me that I couldn't watch that movie again to the end.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

The handbook doesn't say don't watch <insert rating here> movies. They changed that recently. Now they say do not watch inappropriate movies. This is good because then we are not dependent on other people's standards to determine if it's appropriate or not. We depend on our own judgment to determine if it's appropriate or not.

Each of us, of course, have different understanding of what's appropriate and it will reflect on our choice of entertainment.

I love this and it describes what I think as well. I think it is very individual. For example, I tried to watch an edited for TV version of Braveheart, because so many people raved about that movie. But even the edited version was too violent for me. I also, for personal reasons, had a really hard time with the first Hunger Games movie. I don't have an issue with anyone else watching these movies.

On the other hand, I recently read a book (that has an R-rated movie version). I had very specific reasons for choosing that book, and it turned out to be a great choice for me. I'm planning to watch the movie because the effect of the book was so therapeutic. I haven't watched an R-rated movie for ages.

I watch a lot of PG 13 movies, but there are a lot I don't watch as well.

I love that the guideline was changed to "inappropriate". I think the question we should ask ourselves is whether we will feel the Spirit afterwards. I've never seen Schindler's list, but I think it would be appropriate. My book/movie that I mentioned earlier is appropriate for me, maybe not for you.

Sometimes, especially with PG13 we don't know in advance if it is appropriate, but we can always walk out or turn it off.

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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Something I like to keep in mind, is that many of the bible stories if recreated into movies would very likely be rated R. Something else I like to keep in mind is that most rated R movies don't seem to have the same merit as the bible stories either.

 

If something holds up to that standard of 'merit' I might watch it, but if it goes out of the way to be 'over the top' I probably won't regardless of rating.


I also know internationally movie rating systems are different, and i've seen members watch movies that were rated poorly in the U.S. but seen as acceptable where they were. It surprised me at first, afterwards I started trying to gage which movies to watch based on my very subjective view of 'merit'.

Edited by Crypto
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Guest MormonGator

I love that the guideline was changed to "inappropriate". I think the question we should ask ourselves is whether we will feel the Spirit afterwards. I've never seen Schindler's list, but I think it would be appropriate. My book/movie that I mentioned earlier is appropriate for me, maybe not for you.

 

 I do too, and I didn't know this until you said it.Thanks! 

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I gave up on Hollywood long ago. I liked what President Hinckley said when Titanic came out. he commented on it at conference because the movie was a big hit right at that moment. I'm not going to look up the quote but the lesson for me was that it wasn't necessary to watch the movie to learn the lesson. Same with Shindlers list or Private Ryan (only using those because they were mentioned. I'm not picking on you Gator).  I've learned to find my entertainment elsewhere.

 

Consider what TV has to offer. Most of what is on prime-time TV was R rated years ago.  I made a rule that I would change the channel if something was offensive to the Spirit. I turn the TV off if I make the general round through the standard channels. Guess how long the TV stays on in my house.  Generally less than 1/2 an hour.

 

There is so  much more to do in life. Watching TV or streamed movies is like being on drugs. For me, I quit the addiction.

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Something I like to keep in mind, is that many of the bible stories if recreated into movies would very likely be rated R. Something else I like to keep in mind is that most rated R movies don't seem to have the same merit as the bible stories either.

 

Perhaps. But the Bible does not linger on cleavage or crotch shots, nor does it give graphic descriptions of sexual acts or violence. The Bible (and Book of Mormon) could easily and very faithfully be recreated in a way that would garner no more than a PG rating from the MPAA. (There are a few possible exceptions, including one very important one -- the crucifixion. Any realistic portrayal of a crucifixion might garner a PG-13 rating. But even there, the Bible does not dwell on the specifics of the crucifixion, but merely mentions it as a fact.)

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Any realistic portrayal of a crucifixion might garner a PG-13 rating. But even there, the Bible does not dwell on the specifics of the crucifixion, but merely mentions it as a fact.)

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing...still pondering.  But that Mel Gibson movie about the Crucifixion (what is it called?)  that was rated R.  I haven't seen it, my personal images are more than enough for my taste.  

 

While the Book of Mormon does not go into graphic detail, reading is different than watching  movie.  I think watching a scene of Ammon chopping off arms would be more troubling for me than reading about it.  And the same with many other scenes from the Bible or Book of Mormon.  

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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Guest MormonGator

I'm not necessarily disagreeing...still pondering.  But that Mel Gibson movie about the Crucifixion (what is it called?)  that was rated R.  I haven't 

 The Passion of the Christ. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

 The Passion of the Christ. 

 

Thanks.  I just couldn't remember, dang my memory is slipping.  I was slightly worried someone would tell me it was called The Crucifixion or something painfully obvious like that.  :) 

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Thanks.  I just couldn't remember, dang my memory is slipping.  I was slightly worried someone would tell me it was called The Crucifixion or something painfully obvious like that.   :)

 

lol. 

I grew up Catholic, part of canon law was to watch this movie. 

(kidding, kidding) 

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I don't watch R rated movies. I am sure there are ones that are amazing and I admit that when I see an awesome trailer I often think "please don't be R, please don't be R!" But it is something that my wife and I decided on when we first got married is that we would at least make a standard we wouldn't cross, for us only and wouldn't judge anyone else. We often pass up most, if not all PG 13 movies. I will stick with fantasy or science fiction. I almost completely stay away from comedies as they seem to get away with a lot more crude behavior than a violent film gets away with gore. Same for TV. 

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I'm not necessarily disagreeing...still pondering.  But that Mel Gibson movie about the Crucifixion (what is it called?)  that was rated R.  I haven't seen it, my personal images are more than enough for my taste.  

 

While the Book of Mormon does not go into graphic detail, reading is different than watching  movie.  I think watching a scene of Ammon chopping off arms would be more troubling for me than reading about it.  And the same with many other scenes from the Bible or Book of Mormon.  

My post is not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with LP. It's just that her post got me to thinking.

 

The Passion of the Christ is a perfect example of what Vort was saying.  It LINGERED on the most violent, bloody, and painful moments of "the Passion".  The whole idea was to get the audience visibly and auditorially  (sp?) involved in His pains.  While that does wonders for emotion, does it really bring the Spirit to the story?  Well, we'd get arguments on both sides for that.  I myself would find the emotions to run quite deep.  But afterwards, I don't think I could honestly say I felt the Spirit upon watching such a depiction on the screen.

 

As for Ammon chopping off the arms, notice how the Living Scriptures video depicted it, and the Church published "Book of Mormon Reader", and the Church Produced "How Rare a Possession".  They were able to depict it in their own way and still leave out violent and gory details.

 

As for reading vs watching:  My wife and I are converses of each other.  When I see violence on the screen, I'm ashamed to admit, I've been desensitized to it.  But when I read things in a book, the descriptions with the words horrifies me.  I can't finish reading some things.  I couldn't finish reading several chapters of Les Miserables.  My wife is vice-versa.

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As for reading vs watching: My wife and I are converses of each other. When I see violence on the screen, I'm ashamed to admit, I've been desensitized to it. But when I read things in a book, the descriptions with the words horrifies me. I can't finish reading some things. I couldn't finish reading several chapters of Les Miserables. My wife is vice-versa.

I thought your whole post made good points. The part I quoted made me think. I hadn't thought about it that way. I mean I had considered that people will have different tolerances for different movies, but I hadn't considered that people might have different tolerances for books vs movies. Thats interesting.

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I work as a movie reviewer (among other jobs) for a small newspaper.

As part of it, I've had to see quite a few R-rated movies over the last few years.

Believe me when I say that few of them had any merit.

I've hated most of them for one reason or another (crude content, overtly sexual, overtly violent, et cetra), and found only two ("The Equalizer" and "No Escape") in which the content was in proportion to the subject matter. The rest were largely just trash, including a couple "Hollywood Darlings" I wound up killing in the ratings.*

Yeah.

*I so frequently kill Hollywood's darlings that several people now come straight to me to get feedback on a film; if they do read other reviews, mine gets put to the top of the list.

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Can I inject a few thoughts into this discussion.

 

How much of choosing a movie (or other entertainment) should be rooted in "discomfort"? My wife is "not fond" (to put it mildly) of sad movies, so movies like "Where the Red Fern Grows" or "Old Yeller" would not be welcome. As much as I might cry during these kind of movies and books, I believe that they have an overall positive impact on me as an individual. Everyone should be able to make choices about what movies or books or other entertainment they will tolerate (and the current deemphasis on rating letter helps individuals make choices), but should one always avoid art that makes them uncomfortable?

 

I have not seen "The Passion of the Christ", but I find the premise interesting. I expect that Mel Gibson and the others involved in making the film, in part, wanted to use the medium of film to explore the Crucifixion. I can imagine that any artist who wants to explore in some depth what it means to "descend below all things" may not want to omit the most difficult parts or leave them to "inference", while, at the same time, being mindful that some violent elements might overshadow the real message.

 

As with most art, there is room to critique what they chose to put in and leave out of the film. As an artist, I'm sure there can be difficult decisions when deciding what elements add to the goals of the art project, what omissions will weaken the project, and what inclusions might overshadow or overstate the message.

 

I don't think that there is much that comes out of Hollywood that really lives up to any meaning of "high art" that might really explore the human condition -- even the sexual or unpleasant sides of the human condition. I sometimes wonder if discussions like this ignore the possibility of good art that can explore these taboo topics.

 

I think that somewhere in this discussion should be an allowance for artists to use their media to explore difficult, taboo, and painful topics. I also think that, somewhere in this discussion can be an allowance for consumers to decide for themselves what is too much and what difficult messages will impact them positively.

 

Anyway, just a few thoughts.

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My number one complaint with the overwhelming majority of all movies, no matter their rating, is the lack of modesty in dress and speech (primarily dress). I do not swear and I'm trying to eliminate substitute swear words from my vocabulary. I cringe whenever I hear people swear. I feel diminished whenever I'm around bad language and I feel like getting a hefty shot of something spiritual to get rid of the residual bad feelings.

 

The problem with watching movies that have inappropriately dressed characters is the same problem in the vast majority of TV and even animated movies. The Parent's Television Council did a study and found that 99% of supposedly “family friendly” TV shows contained adult content. If you think you can just ignore the “inappropriate” content without damage to your spirituality, I would suggest you reconsider this position.

 

The problem with thinking that you really aren't paying attention to the immodestly dressed characters is that you are desensitizing yourself to immodesty. What is even worse, is that you are teaching your children that immodesty is really not necessary. Look at all the new Disney animated movies. There are plenty of cleavage shots, mermaids swimming around with nothing but a couple of shells covering their breasts and all the clothing hugs the figures of the heroine. All of it is designed to make them look “sexy.”

 

If you are letting your children watch this stuff, you are responsible for desensitizing them and are conditioning them into accepting immodesty as normal. It won't matter what you may say regarding dressing modestly, your actions speak louder. You also condition them that it's OK to compromise the Gospel standards by modifying them or mingling them with the world's standards. This also will carry on into compromising other Gospel standards.

 

Once girls and boys view immodesty as normal, the door is open to accepting other compromises into the law of chastity and other commandments. Both girls and boys begin thinking that they have to be sexy to be accepted and to be sexy, you have to dress and act sexy. As they get older, they come under more and more peer pressure to compromise more and more aspects of chastity until it is considered old fashioned.

 

Another problem with allowing your children to look at inappropriate entertainment is that you are creating the foundation for the acceptance of and indulging in pornography. I say that because once you've desensitized them into accepting immodesty as normal, you've opened the door into viewing women/girls as objects.

 

The problem of pornography is rampant in the church. I read a Deseret News article that said that 1 in 3 referrals to LDSSS is for pornography problems. I also have a report that says that as high as 60% of evangelical Christian men have a problem with porn; 30% for women. What does that say for the Church. I would consider the LDS to be in the evangelical category.

 

It all stems from desensitizing your kids into thinking that immodesty is normal.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

My number one complaint with the overwhelming majority of all movies, no matter their rating, is the lack of modesty in dress and speech (primarily dress).

I'm curious how you avoid immodesty on your daily life. I see it at the grocery store, at church, even sometimes at work (which is crazy since I work with adolescent sex offenders).

You make a good point that even Disney has immodesty. But how do we avoid it all except to live in the Alaskan bush and only watch BYU TV.

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I'm curious how you avoid immodesty on your daily life. I see it at the grocery store, at church, even sometimes at work (which is crazy since I work with adolescent sex offenders).

You make a good point that even Disney has immodesty. But how do we avoid it all except to live in the Alaskan bush and only watch BYU TV.

 

I can't avoid immodesty out in the world, but I can, for the most part, keep it out of my home, nor do I need to go fill my head with it by going to movies.  The home is the cradle of virtue.  It is where young minds are shaped and where the most important instruction goes on.  If you start properly when your children are young, you will at least give them a better chance. 

 

I heard a song on the Mormon Channel that said that even though your children may disobey, they are always listening to what you say and watching every single thing you do.  What you do speaks louder that what you say.  The best possible instruction you can give your children is if the example you set is the same as what you say.

Edited by JojoBag
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Guest LiterateParakeet

I can't avoid immodesty out in the world, but I can, for the most part, keep it out of my home, nor do I need to go fill my head with it by going to movies.

That's a good point.

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