R-rated and PG-13 movies


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My post is not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with LP. It's just that her post got me to thinking.

...

As for reading vs watching:  My wife and I are converses of each other.  When I see violence on the screen, I'm ashamed to admit, I've been desensitized to it.  But when I read things in a book, the descriptions with the words horrifies me.  I can't finish reading some things.  I couldn't finish reading several chapters of Les Miserables.  My wife is vice-versa.

I'm the same way with reading actually, for me reading is much more vivid and affects me much more. I have to be careful with what I read.

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Perhaps. But the Bible does not linger on cleavage or crotch shots, nor does it give graphic descriptions of sexual acts or violence. The Bible (and Book of Mormon) could easily and very faithfully be recreated in a way that would garner no more than a PG rating from the MPAA. (There are a few possible exceptions, including one very important one -- the crucifixion. Any realistic portrayal of a crucifixion might garner a PG-13 rating. But even there, the Bible does not dwell on the specifics of the crucifixion, but merely mentions it as a fact.)

Add one more line that you quote and we might even almost seem to agree ;)

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The problem with thinking that you really aren't paying attention to the immodestly dressed characters is that you are desensitizing yourself to immodesty.

 

I have a problem with this premise.  This is the world we walk around in now.  You are getting that out in the world when you go to the store etc.  I don't have a problem with the idea of not adding to the decadence around us, but the way you are stating this is implying only through media is this a problem.  You (general you, not jojo you) should be teaching your children to treat inappropriate dress/content correctly no matter what the medium.  Media is not the only source of the problem.  Teaching correct principles to our children is the best course, with appropriate follow up when exposure to these sources happen.

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As for movie choices, I flip it over and next to the movie rating is a content explanation.  First thing I look for is nudity/sexual content.  I also use this site:  http://www.kids-in-mind.com/r/index.htm

 

A movie like Saving Private Ryan, or better yet, American Sniper, Band of Brothers, Blackhawk Down inspires me.

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I have a problem with this premise.  This is the world we walk around in now.  You are getting that out in the world when you go to the store etc.  I don't have a problem with the idea of not adding to the decadence around us, but the way you are stating this is implying only through media is this a problem.  You (general you, not jojo you) should be teaching your children to treat inappropriate dress/content correctly no matter what the medium.  Media is not the only source of the problem.  Teaching correct principles to our children is the best course, with appropriate follow up when exposure to these sources happen.

 

I haven't even gotten to this point in my comments.  I completely agree with you.  However, the media in its many forms is the major source of conditioning children to accept the world's standards.  It's the Hollywood propaganda that promotes much of this.  Then there is the fashion industry, which really is nothing more than an extension of Hollywood.

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I haven't watched a movie in years, and the last time I watched television was over 10 years ago while I was convalescing in a hospital bed following a motorcycle accident.

And frankly I don't feel like I've missed a thing.

 

We have one rule in our house regarding television and movies. If you would feel uncomfortable inviting the Savior to watch it with you---then don't watch it. 
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Guest MormonGator
On October 29, 2015 at 0:58 AM, mirkwood said:

As for movie choices, I flip it over and next to the movie rating is a content explanation.  First thing I look for is nudity/sexual content.  I also use this site:  http://www.kids-in-mind.com/r/index.htm

 

A movie like Saving Private Ryan, or better yet, American Sniper, Band of Brothers, Blackhawk Down inspires me.

 Not only do they inspire you, but you should watch those movies to see history. So many people-adults and kids-simply have no clue what happened in the past what the amazing sacrifice these people made. If you go out of your way to avoid these flicks because they are rated R, that's fine, and I have nothing but respect for you. But I do think you are missing out. 

Those movies also show reality. I never served in the military, but I am confident you can't make a realistic movie about 18 years olds in the horrors of war without profanity and violence. When you are in the trenches, your probably won't hear "Gee, good sir, I haven't seen my girlfriend/wife in six months, golly I miss her! What? RPG? Oh my heck We should get going. Let's go boys. One by one!" 

Cut em a break. War is hell. 

Edited by MormonGator
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What about R-rated and PG-13 movies? Can we watch any of them, some of them or none of them?

 

Personally, I don't watch any R-rated movies and the overwhelming majority of PG-13 movies. For that matter, I don't watch the majority of PG movies. Why, you might or might not ask? Because by my estimate about 99.9999999% of R-rated movies, 99% of PG-13 rated and 95% of PG movies contain inappropriate content.

 

I guess, I should define what I consider “inappropriate content.” Anything that does not conform to the Gospel standards is inappropriate. Pretty simple, huh?

 

Probably the single biggest offender is how the characters are immodestly dressed. Let me also define what is immodest. I'm not talking about the definition used by the world or even by many church members who are influenced by the ways of the world. I'm talking about the definition as demonstrated by the Church leaders. Clothing that is tight, as in anything that, because of the type of fabric, cut, and style, is designed to show off the figure, curves, shape, whatever of a man or woman (which is the vast majority of all clothing); clothing that is above the knee when a person sits down or shows too much chest (male or female), even if it does not show cleavage. Other inappropriate things are swearing, gratuitous violence, sexual innuendo, vulgarity, etc.

 

I figure that if something is inappropriate for a child of any age, it is inappropriate for an adult. Especially since we are to become like a child.

it used to be that it was a clear cut line between pg 13 and R... now there isn't. pretty much we've been told that we have to be really careful in what we choose to consume in the media. avoid things that display or promote things that are immoral.

Edited by Blackmarch
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 Not only do they inspire you, but you should watch those movies to see history. So many people-adults and kids-simply have no clue what happened in the past what the amazing sacrifice these people made. If you go out of your way to avoid these flicks because they are rated R, that's fine, and I have nothing but respect for you. But I do think you are missing out. 

 

Those movies also show reality. I never served in the military, but I am confident you can't make a realistic movie about 18 years olds in the horrors of war without profanity and violence. When you are in the trenches, your probably won't hear "Gee, good sir, I haven't seen my girlfriend/wife in six months-What? RPG? By golly, we should get going."

 

 

 

Cut em a break. War is hell. 

 

I fully understand your feelings.  I am rather conflicted myself when it comes to things like depicting war.  You are absolutely right when you say that people should study these things.  I did serve in the Army and I was in law enforcement for 13 years.  I've seen some of the worst possible side of life and I've seen the best.  There is a very, very fine line when it comes to how much to teach your kids and how soon (how old).  It's better for them to learn it from you, than from the world.  As a kid, I studied WWII history.  I read Guadalcanal Diary by Edward Tregaskis and every other book I could get my hands on.  It gave me a very good idea of what war was like.

 

I took my kids on ride-alongs while on patrol.  My son is a black belt in Taekwondo and I even used him as back-up when I had a crowd of trouble makers.  I didn't shelter my kids from the bad things of the world, but I tried to put those things in their proper perspective.  I think one of the problems I have with movies is that it is a quick and dirty form of education.  I would much rather have my kids read to learn.  Then maybe watch the movie.

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The handbook doesn't say don't watch <insert rating here> movies.  They changed that recently.  Now they say do not watch inappropriate movies.  This is good because then we are not dependent on other people's standards to determine if it's appropriate or not.  We depend on our own judgment to determine if it's appropriate or not.

 

I find it disappointing that most respondents have taken this change in policy in the opposite way from which it was intended.

 

Pay attention to the metamorphasis of this policy.  Yes, I consider it a policy -- take from it what you will.

 

Originally: Don't watch porn.  (Most movies at the time didn't have inappropriate content).

 

Then: Stay away from rated R movies.  (At the time, Hollywood had already been putting out a bunch of nudity/cursing/viorlence filled movies that were Rated R).

 

Then: Do not watch ANY rated R movies and be selective of the PG-13 movies you watch, and maybe even some PG movies out there.

 

Now: Do not watch any movies that are inappropriate.  I've seen a rated G movie with nudity in it.  And I'm not talking about cleavage or skimpy clothing or a documentary.

 

We can see this as tightening the standard, or we can see this as Hollywood getting more lax in their ratings.  But instead, people are now using this to excuse watching rated R movies.  Obviously you'll do what you want and you'll have your justifications -- I've read them.  But if I'm going to hang my hat on going against Church policy, movie watching is not where I'd do it.  

 

 

 

It would be on guns. :shootout:  BIG FREAKING GUNS!!!

 

 

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Edited by Guest
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I fully understand your feelings.  I am rather conflicted myself when it comes to things like depicting war.  You are absolutely right when you say that people should study these things.  I did serve in the Army and I was in law enforcement for 13 years.  I've seen some of the worst possible side of life and I've seen the best.  There is a very, very fine line when it comes to how much to teach your kids and how soon (how old).  It's better for them to learn it from you, than from the world.  As a kid, I studied WWII history.  I read Guadalcanal Diary by Edward Tregaskis and every other book I could get my hands on.  It gave me a very good idea of what war was like.

 

I took my kids on ride-alongs while on patrol.  My son is a black belt in Taekwondo and I even used him as back-up when I had a crowd of trouble makers.  I didn't shelter my kids from the bad things of the world, but I tried to put those things in their proper perspective.  I think one of the problems I have with movies is that it is a quick and dirty form of education.  I would much rather have my kids read to learn.  Then maybe watch the movie.

 Thank you for your service to the country, and yes, I'd like to read way more than I like to watch TV/Movies 

Edited by MormonGator
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I'm curious how you avoid immodesty on your daily life. I see it at the grocery store, at church, even sometimes at work (which is crazy since I work with adolescent sex offenders).

You make a good point that even Disney has immodesty. But how do we avoid it all except to live in the Alaskan bush and only watch BYU TV.

  To be honest with you with Lit, I'm not sure HOW you could avoid it. Even if you grow all of your own food, make your own clothes, homeschool, never leave your house,never watch TV/movies and ONLY read the book of Mormon/Bible  eventually you do need to enter the "real world" just to pay taxes, visit family, vote, or buy something at Target. 

And no, there is nothing wrong with what I described. I love home schoolers, gardening, etc 

But you are going to see immodesty, it's just something you have to accept.  

Edited by MormonGator
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I respect those who choose not to watch R-rated movies.  They make a vow to God, and keep it.  Sincerest props for that.

 

On the other hand, occasionally some, who've made such decisions also choose to denigrate any R-rated show, and to indirectly question the spirituality of those who do watch.  The Passion of the Christ movie seemed to be the epicenter of this phenomenon.  While some reported great spiritual growth, insight, and even repentance and recommitment, some in the no-R crowd had to cast stones.  "Torture porn" "Who could watch the Savior suffer like that and say they are a sincere follower?" etc.  It was as if the R-rating meant it had to be evil, had to be a net-negative.

 

Sometimes personal covenants are just that--personal.  Others might do the very thing some are committed to never do and find...salvation!  http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/barrabas_says_passion_filming_led_to_his_conversion/

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I respect those who choose not to watch R-rated movies.  They make a vow to God, and keep it.  Sincerest props for that.

 

 

So true. I totally agree. Huge, huge respect for that. 

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I figure that if something is inappropriate for a child of any age, it is inappropriate for an adult. Especially since we are to become like a child.

 

This reminded me of when one of my young children was very disturbed by the violence in a Joseph Smith movie in a temple visitor's center.  The children had to leave the movie early, and this particular child was traumatized by it for a while.  :)

 

Due to their wonderful imaginations, their still-developing sense of discernment between fiction and reality, and their propensity to have nightmares, I think there are movies suitable for older children and adults that are not suitable for some young children.

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I love some of the rated R movies I have seen. Schindler's List, King's Speech, American Sniper, Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, and Braveheart, among many others.

 

On the contrary, some of the pg-13 movies I have seen were complete and utter garbage for my eyes. Like the Transformers series. Goodness.

 

Anyway, I gave up on caring what others really thought about me, I found many just tried to guilt trip me into doing what they wanted.

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  • 9 months later...

Depends.  What intent are you watching the movie with?  For example, I watched Captain America: Civil War recently, and it was a wonderful, inspirational watch.  I was pleased to see that it most certainly did not glamorize its violence (although there was a lot of it), and taught important lessons about the consequences of violence and revenge-seeking.  I also read "Ender's Game" recently, and it was NOT an easy read.   There was frequent violence, vulgarity, and crudeness throughout.  But I felt I came away a better man for having read it.  Although "we are, that we might have joy", not all life is going to be joyful.  The greatest joys we have are when we lift up people, and so we need to learn about how to do that.  We may have to put off joys temporarily so that we may have greater joy in the future.

That said, though; such reads and watches are not for everyone.  There may very well be better ways to gain the same information.  But we have to embrace the truth, no matter how hard it is, and stick to it.  That is why I feel such things are good for people who are ready to learn from them.  They become a stumbling block to others.  Think about Captain Moroni.  He was not a violent or wicked man, and the very gates of hell would shake if all men were like unto him.  But he frequently had to fight to protect and save his people.  The city of Gid was taken without bloodshed because of what many would call a lie.  We have to be ready to do the same, to make tough decisions now that will have eternal consequences.  Transgressing laws is not the same as sinning.  It is living the higher laws, and the lower laws in spirit, but not in letter.  Many of us judge that to be sin because we look on the appearance, rather than the heart.  We need to stop that now.

Edited by LiveTheGospel
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On 10/28/2015 at 6:21 PM, Carborendum said:

My post is not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with LP. It's just that her post got me to thinking.

 

The Passion of the Christ is a perfect example of what Vort was saying.  It LINGERED on the most violent, bloody, and painful moments of "the Passion".  The whole idea was to get the audience visibly and auditorially  (sp?) involved in His pains.  While that does wonders for emotion, does it really bring the Spirit to the story?  Well, we'd get arguments on both sides for that.  I myself would find the emotions to run quite deep.  But afterwards, I don't think I could honestly say I felt the Spirit upon watching such a depiction on the screen.

 

As for Ammon chopping off the arms, notice how the Living Scriptures video depicted it, and the Church published "Book of Mormon Reader", and the Church Produced "How Rare a Possession".  They were able to depict it in their own way and still leave out violent and gory details.

 

As for reading vs watching:  My wife and I are converses of each other.  When I see violence on the screen, I'm ashamed to admit, I've been desensitized to it.  But when I read things in a book, the descriptions with the words horrifies me.  I can't finish reading some things.  I couldn't finish reading several chapters of Les Miserables.  My wife is vice-versa.

In the Philippines, we crucify 3 people every year in a Passion Re-enactment.  There's decades-long list of people volunteering to be crucified.  Not a movie - real life crucifixion minus the dying part.  It is very, very, very emotional bordering on traumatic.  I went through it twice.  They re-enact the entire week that starts from Jesus being welcomed with palm fronds on the Sunday before Easter and then him teaching in Jerusalem on Monday through Thursday, then the Last Supper, then the betrayal, then the interrogation and torture, and Judas hanging himself on a tree (he gets choked but doctors take him down when he passes out so he doesn't die).  They keep going for another week of Jesus' post-resurrection appearances to the women, the Apostles, etc.  I have to say, the spiritual experiences during and after going through this Passion and Resurrection Week is very deep and amazing.  A lot of people roll banana fibers in glue then roll it on broken glass and use it to whip their backs while following the events of Passion Week.  They want to feel what it's like and not just watch it.  The joy and thanksgiving on Resurrection celebration becomes even more intense afterwards. 

The first time I went through it was when I was about 8 years old.  The next time I was 15 years old.  I don't think I can go through it anymore.  It can get you really really really deep into it that I don't know if I can handle that feeling of despair leading up to Sunday midnight when the celebration of the Resurrection starts.  I haven't watched Passion of the Christ either for the same reason.

Ben-Hur had the same uncomfortable moments but at least it isn't the entire movie.

On books versus movie.  I can handle the book, not so much the movie.  This is because I can control the images in my mind with the book whereas I can't control the images fed to me from the screen.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Edited by anatess2
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I don't care for dark subject matter, it's not really uplifting, you know the dark world of drugs , prostitution, murders.. I have found if I want to watch a movie I now use Vidangel which allows me to take out sex, nudity , language,  you can custom the filters to take out any and everything you personally find offensive,. There problem solved, I'm gonna go watch a movie.

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Ok, here's the part where I make a few people mad.  It's not my intention, but I acknowledge that it will happen.  Hopefully after I go into a little detail people will understand better.

It's a pet peeve of mine when someone says "I don't watch R rated movies."  I mean it really irritates me.  Part of it is because I've known people (LDS and non-LDS) who say it as a way to brag about how righteous and pure they are.  Not accusing anyone here of that, it's just something I've seen in the past.

But there's also a really good reason not to let the movie's rating be your guide. 

The MPAA rating system does not necessarily reflect Christian values.  Its standards may have their roots in them, but they don't now.  They're also not consistent, and there's no set of clear definitions and guidelines.  There's an idea of what triggers what ratings... certain words or bare body parts trigger a PG-13 while repeatedly showing them can elevate it to an R.  I saw a documentary once on this, and you'd be amazed at how inconsistent and loose it is.

Does anyone honestly believe that Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom should be PG?  A man graphically and explicitly tears a man's heart out of his chest before lowering him into a pit of lava while he's somehow still alive.  Meanwhile a movie like Equilibrium is rated R and the violence in it doesn't even come close to that level of blood and horror.  (And no, there isn't any nudity and hardly any profanity at all.)

So when a person says "I don't watch R rated movies" they're essentially saying they trust the rating to shield them from content they'd prefer to avoid when they watch a PG or G film.  They're saying they trust an arbitrary, inconsistent and secular system to tell them what movies they should or shouldn't watch.  (Combine that with the people who say it to brag and you can understand why I see that statement as being so incredibly comical.)

Like everything else in life, you have to make the effort to take them case by case.  Relying on the MPAA to do your thinking for you is a dangerous shortcut. 

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3 hours ago, unixknight said:

Does anyone honestly believe that Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom should be PG?  A man graphically and explicitly tears a man's heart out of his chest before lowering him into a pit of lava while he's somehow still alive.  Meanwhile a movie like Equilibrium is rated R and the violence in it doesn't even come close to that level of blood and horror.  (And no, there isn't any nudity and hardly any profanity at all.)

Fun fact: the PG13 rating was created shortly after (and largely because of, I believe) Temple of Doom.

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