Byron Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hi there. I will be asking a series of questions and would like to insert this introduction before them all to ensure that my intent is not misconstrued.Though I believe God tells us there is no sin greater than another, I have a particular distain for gossip. Thus I would like to take any hearsay given to me about Mormonism and put it under a spotlight and find the truth. Hearsay: Joseph Smith plagiarized the yet unpublished works later to be "the leaves of Grass"(1855) thus producing "The book of Mormon"(1830). I am left with only one of two answers, either Joseph Smith Plagiarized "The Leaves of Grass" Or Walt Whitman plagiarized "the book of Mormon". Please enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Let me get this straight. Joseph Smith plagiarized a work published 25 years after the Book of Mormon was first published?At first I thought Vort was getting overly antsy with you, but, lay off the anti cool-aide. Leah, kapikui, Crypto and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapikui Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Let me get this straight. Joseph Smith plagiarized a work published 25 years after the Book of Mormon was first published?At first I thought Vort was getting overly antsy with you, but, lay off the anti cool-aide. I have to agree with jerome. Walt Whitman was born in 1819. He would have been 11 years old, actually probably just about to turn 11, when the Book of Mormon was published. While I'll concede that Whitman was quite an author, but to believe this, we have to conclude that a 9 or 10 year old child wrote several hundred pages of poetry that Joseph Smith happened to find and plagiarize, and then that Whitman didn't publish this poetry until 1855 and claimed he didn't start writing it until 1850. Either that or we have to believe that Joseph Smith somehow had access to a time machine or similar to get a book that wouldn't even be started for 30 years in order to plagiarize it. While "clearing up misconceptions" is nice, hitting the Wikipedia entry for Walt Whitman and looking at his birth date kind of exposes the extreme stupidity of this particular rumor. You don't even have to look up pro or anti-LDS sources. Simply look at undisputed facts about Whitman and apply an extremely small amount of logic. It's not even a moderately intelligent objection, and easily disproven without even looking at either work. You say you want to ask "hard" questions and then insinuate that people are finding your "hard" questions offensive. So far the only thing I've found offensive is that someone thinks these questions are somehow hard. Most of us are happy to answer legitimate questions, but please do a few seconds research to find out if your assertion is even remotely possible. mordorbund and Leah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) As a point of fact, the only thing that seems to pop up in my googling of that assertion is a Mormon apologist, Jeff Lindsey, pointing out that this work, one impossible for Joseph Smith to have plagiarized, matches up better as a candidate for similarity than books many anti-mormons dig up and throw accusations around with. He writes in a satire style so I could see how one doing google searches and briefly scanning it for anti-mormon issues could easily stumble on it and mistake it for real stuff. Edited October 30, 2015 by jerome1232 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Many critics over the years have alleged that Smith plagiarized one work or another, but none of the allegations have had any merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Byron, Seriously, did you even spend any time thinking about this one? And why do you consider this one a "hard" question? 1830, 1855. This isn't rocket science. EDIT: I really don't intend this as a personal attack. I just want to bluntly and clearly emphasize how easy it would have been to just think for a minute and solve this one on your own without any outside input. Edited October 30, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 This one is just hilarious. Even more than the rumor of young virgins jumping out of the temple windows into the great Salt Lake to swim away to safety from their lecherous old husbands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Byron, Seriously, did you even spend any time thinking about this one? And why do you consider this one a "hard" question? 1830, 1855. This isn't rocket science.Carborendum? This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. I love this response. Seriously though, we've heard this again and again. If you really want to get answers, I suggest reading "Shaken Faith Syndrome" by Michael Ash. Edited October 30, 2015 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Seriously, though. This is the best one I've heard in awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I don't know, Eowyn. I still like the whole virgins kidnapped and held in the secret orgy room of the temple. When someone has approached me with that rumor, I always get upset that I've yet to find that orgy room in any temple....and I've looked! Backroads, mirkwood and erog84 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkstpaul Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hearsay: Joseph Smith plagiarized the yet unpublished works later to be "the leaves of Grass"(1855) thus producing "The book of Mormon"(1830). I am left with only one of two answers, either Joseph Smith Plagiarized "The Leaves of Grass" Or Walt Whitman plagiarized "the book of Mormon". Please enlighten me.My suggestion...read The Book of Mormon; even just the first part. It is wholly unique and spiritual. It isn't beyond reason that someone could have had the concept for a similar story plot line, but the words and meaning - especially the deep meanings - are not replicated anywhere. mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hi there. I will be asking a series of questions and would like to insert this introduction before them all to ensure that my intent is not misconstrued.Though I believe God tells us there is no sin greater than another, I have a particular distain for gossip. Thus I would like to take any hearsay given to me about Mormonism and put it under a spotlight and find the truth. Hearsay: Joseph Smith plagiarized the yet unpublished works later to be "the leaves of Grass"(1855) thus producing "The book of Mormon"(1830). I am left with only one of two answers, either Joseph Smith Plagiarized "The Leaves of Grass" Or Walt Whitman plagiarized "the book of Mormon". Please enlighten me. Hilarious. This one doesn't even make me mad, just makes me laugh. This is something Jeff Lindsay (an LDS apologist, and definitely not anti) came up with. It tickles me that antis read Jeff's satire and accepted it as real. I mean, a look at the dates (Book of Mormon published in 1829, Leaves of Grass published in 1855) explains everything. Instead, we are to assume that a 9-year-old Walt Whitman had already written major parts of a poem he would publish 25 years later, and that poem was the basis of the Book of Mormon. Byron, one more time: Anti-Mormons are liars. Do not believe what they tell you. jerome1232, Crypto and mirkwood 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 I am left with only one of two answers, either Joseph Smith Plagiarized "The Leaves of Grass" Or Walt Whitman plagiarized "the book of Mormon". Please enlighten me. Have you actually read either one of them? mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Have you actually read either one of them? Yup! I had to read Leaves of Grass in college. I loved it, it's still among my favorite American poems. It has nothing to do with Mormonism and the OP is dead wrong. The blunt truth, if you like or not: Smith Jr was a prophet and was divinely inspired to write the Book of Mormon. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) From the creator of the myth: Dr. Jeff Lindsay: Dr. Dr. Dr. Jeff Lindsay is an internationally recognized Bible scholar (based on the fact that he has been recognized several times by a cousin in Canada) and defender of true Christianity who learned much about the inner workings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He did this by infiltrating its hierarchy for many years without raising the suspicions of Church leaders, while serving in such high-ranking positions as "Assistant Nursery Coordinator"--a position technically below that of Apostle but nevertheless one of profound importance in the Church, as any LDS mother will tell you... Now we all know just how serious this accusation is. Edited October 30, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdowis Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Bottom line -->> this point was made by an apologist to point out the silliness of the "parallelism" argument, comparing the BOM with other books. I have demonstrated that the BOM was actually written in the 21st century -- the blood oaths of the Mafia, the Taliban hiding in the mountains, drug lords with a standing army. You can see the latest newspaper events in the Book of Mormon, so it was obviously written within the past couple of decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 "recognized several times by a cousin in Canada" -Hey! Throwing mud at Canadians again! "Blame Canada" all over again. Conspiracy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Hi there. I will be asking a series of questions and would like to insert this introduction before them all to ensure that my intent is not misconstrued.Though I believe God tells us there is no sin greater than another, I have a particular distain for gossip. Thus I would like to take any hearsay given to me about Mormonism and put it under a spotlight and find the truth. Hearsay: Joseph Smith plagiarized the yet unpublished works later to be "the leaves of Grass"(1855) thus producing "The book of Mormon"(1830). I am left with only one of two answers, either Joseph Smith Plagiarized "The Leaves of Grass" Or Walt Whitman plagiarized "the book of Mormon". Please enlighten me.I have yet to hear this one.... however considering ALL the other books that i've seen that were claimed to have been plagiarized by JS have been inaccurate as far as I have been able to see and read, i'll go out on a limb and say that this one is false too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdowis Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Was the Book of Mormon Plagiarized from Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass? Here is the linkhttp://www.jefflindsay.com/bomsource.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted November 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I just read Jeff Lindsay's tongue-in-cheek thesis and I can see where people might get the wrong idea. it is obvious we will find whatever we are looking for no matter what we read. Thus I feel talking to you all is much more effective in finding the truth about your faith. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I just read Jeff Lindsay's tongue-in-cheek thesis and I can see where people might get the wrong idea. it is obvious we will find whatever we are looking for no matter what we read. Thus I feel talking to you all is much more effective in finding the truth about your faith. Thank you That is a wise idea, Byron. Please remember my caution to you about anti-Mormons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I just read Jeff Lindsay's tongue-in-cheek thesis and I can see where people might get the wrong idea. it is obvious we will find whatever we are looking for no matter what we read. Thus I feel talking to you all is much more effective in finding the truth about your faith. Thank you Hi Byron. Have you read any portion of the Book of Mormon? If so, what are your thoughts about its purported origin and content? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted November 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 @Mordorbound, actually no. I have, thus far, refused to read anything spiritual other than the bible because I believe the Bible is the complete word of God. I do not even read books (about scripture) written by people of the same Church as me because I believe discussion about God should take place between two people so that God is there among them. it is also for this reasoning that I try to stay away from posted articles about scripture that many of you have suggested I read. I know this may seem rather closed minded to some. But I know my weaknesses and without being able to question something I will either believe it or discount it and may lose something in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) How is it then that you stumbled upon this assertion Bryon. You have not read The Book of Mormon so you didn't not gain it through your own ponderings. You then, I assume, found it online. All blogs, links, discussions about "Leaves of Grass" and "The Book of Mormon" that even discusses this allegation all attribute back to Jeff Lindsay's satire.So I repeat, what lead you to make this assertion? Edited November 2, 2015 by jerome1232 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 @Mordorbound, actually no. I have, thus far, refused to read anything spiritual other than the bible So why are you criticizing something that you've never read? Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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