Maureen Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 They may be based on scripture, but they are not scripture. And, as with anything, it is impossible to base something on something else and not change it, at least subtly.The men who wrote the creeds (and there are many), were not prophets, did not speak for God, and had no authority to write in His name. Further, the mere fact that the creeds exist is evidence of alteration of the beliefs the purport to refine of define.Lehi Mainstream Christianity creeds are very similar to your Articles of Faith. They are merely statements of belief. And the men that formed the creeds have just as much authority as anyone who believes in something and wishes to put those beliefs down on paper (words). M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Mainstream Christianity creeds are very similar to your Articles of Faith. They are merely statements of belief. And the men that formed the creeds have just as much authority as anyone who believes in something and wishes to put those beliefs down on paper (words).No one claims they had no right to pen what they believe. The authority they lacked is authority from God. The creeds, all of them, are the words of men, not of God. The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were written by a prophet of God, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. They are scripture. Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 No one claims they had no right to pen what they believe. The authority they lacked is authority from God.The creeds, all of them, are the words of men, not of God. The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were written by a prophet of God, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. They are scripture.Lehi Then prove it. You can't, because your claims are things that you believe. Just because you claim something doesn't automatically make it true. Your beliefs are no different than what a Protestant or Catholic believes. They are neither better or worse, they are beliefs. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Your beliefs are no different than what a Protestant or Catholic believes. Clearly, there are many relevant differences between LDS beliefs and those of other religions. They are neither better or worse, they are beliefs. The existence of the LDS Church, and of this list, bespeaks that many consider you to be wrong in this. Note that you have no more proof of the correctness of your belief than you demand of others for theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Clearly, there are many relevant differences between LDS beliefs and those of other religions. The existence of the LDS Church, and of this list, bespeaks that many consider you to be wrong in this. Note that you have no more proof of the correctness of your belief than you demand of others for theirs. The difference is, I'm not making claims that my beliefs are correct and yours or Lehi's are wrong. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The difference is, I'm not making claims that my beliefs are correct and yours or Lehi's are wrong. So you can't figure out why a Latter-day Saint on an LDS-oriented list might assert that his religion's teachings are correct and another's are mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The men who wrote the creeds (and there are many), were not prophets, did not speak for God, and had no authority to write in His name. Further, the mere fact that the creeds exist is evidence of alteration of the beliefs the purport to refine of define. Yeah, I'm having a hard time seeing how stuff like this is helpful. LDS.net isn't really here so people from other faiths can show up and hear about why they're wrong. I'd suggest we all take a look at #2:2. Please be conscious of the fact that although LDS.NET is aimed towards an LDS audience, that the membership of this site consists of friends from an array of different backgrounds, beliefs, and cultures. Please be respectful and courteous to all, and know that everyone who is willing to follow the Rules and Terms of LDS.NET are welcome to participate and be a member of LDS.NET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Then prove it. You can't, because your claims are things that you believe. Just because you claim something doesn't automatically make it true. Your beliefs are no different than what a Protestant or Catholic believes. They are neither better or worse, they are beliefs.I don't claim to be able to "prove it". What I claim is that historically, the creeds were written by men. You seem to believe otherwise. So, one might ask you to "prove it". Are they scripture? Who can "prove it" is the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit, if you prefer). He, and He alone can do so. We are not talking here about the freezing point of helium. Lehi Edited November 21, 2015 by LeSellers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I don't claim to be able to "prove it". What I claim is that historically, the creeds were written by men. You seem to believe otherwise. So, one might ask you to "prove it". Are they scripture?Who can "prove it" is the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit, if you prefer). He, and He alone can do so. We are not talking here about the freezing point of helium.Lehi You need to re-read what I have written. I've already mentioned that men formed the creeds, so I don't know where you get the idea that I believe otherwise. A man also formed the LDS articles of faith. Creeds are not considered scripture; but they don't have to be scripture, they are statements of belief based on scripture. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 You need to re-read what I have written. I've already mentioned that men formed the creeds, so I don't know where you get the idea that I believe otherwise. A man also formed the LDS articles of faith. Creeds are not considered scripture; but they don't have to be scripture, they are statements of belief based on scripture. M. That's a point of divergence of LDS and other Christian groups. The Articles of Faith, the only "creed" Mormons really have, is considered scripture (bound in the book) and believed to be divinely inspired. From my (limited) understanding, most the groups whom follow the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds do not consider them to be scripture nor directly divinely inspired. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here) LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 That's a point of divergence of LDS and other Christian groups. The Articles of Faith, the only "creed" Mormons really have, is considered scripture (bound in the book) and believed to be divinely inspired. From my (limited) understanding, most the groups whom follow the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds do not consider them to be scripture nor directly divinely inspired. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here) Hi Jane, as far as I know creeds are not considered scripture. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) On 11/20/2015 at 10:14 PM, Maureen said: You need to re-read what I have written. I've already mentioned that men formed the creeds, so I don't know where you get the idea that I believe otherwise. A man also formed the LDS articles of faith. Creeds are not considered scripture; but they don't have to be scripture, they are statements of belief based on scripture. Protestants typically believe the Bible only. If the creeds are not scripture, then Protestants should not believe them. You claim that the Articles of Faith were written by a man. If, by that, you mean that Joseph Smith penned them, then you would be right. But he was a prophet of God, and they were written under inspiration, so they are scripture. Lehi Edited April 12, 2016 by LeSellers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Hi Jane, as far as I know creeds are not considered scripture. M. Then why are non-scriptures used to as the ruler to measure belief? (Asking a Protestant here) Edited November 21, 2015 by Jane_Doe LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Protestants typically believe the Bible only. If the creeds are not scripture, than Protestants should not believe them. Then why are non-scriptures used to as the ruler to measure belief? (Asking a Protestant here) Creeds and Statements of Belief are just a more succinct way of putting in writing what a religious community believes. I'm not sure how else to explain them. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Yes, but if one disagrees with a creed, what then? Are they apostate? So in that sense, aren't creeds at least pseudo-scripture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Yes, but if one disagrees with a creed, what then? Are they apostate? So in that sense, aren't creeds at least pseudo-scripture? If you agree with a church's Statements of Beliefs then you can become a member; but if you don't agree with all the Statements of Belief you can still attend a church and be a part of a church family without becoming a member. You can tithe (give offerings) and participate as much as you want. I have a friend who did exactly that. M, Edited November 22, 2015 by Maureen lonetree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I know several active members that I don't believe anyone considers apostate who don't accept the AoF as scripture. They are "just a letter". I disagree with them, but I'm not calling for their excommunication. I also knew one person who had difficulty with the notion that Jesus was God's Son. Yet he was still active. I have no idea what was said/done during his temple recommend interview. But... whatever. I believe that the difference is not in definition, but application, attitude, and practicality. If you don't believe the "classical" creeds, then you're not a Christian. If you don't believe (insert whatever principle of Mormon Doctrine), that doesn't make you apostate. Edited November 23, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxylds Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I am LDS, grew up in the Los Angeles area.I think that if life here was easy and we would not have to choose, we would not have agency and life would be pretty boring.My motivations today, being retired, I am active in three Optimist Clubs whose purpose is service to youth. I also serve at the Optimist Youth Home in Los Angeles, OYHFS.ORG, where at-risk kids are mostly on probation. Our primary function there is to change lives. Our about 300 staff touch the lives of about 500 kids a day. That includes the community kids in our charter school. Here one of my greatest joys is watching parents at our High School graduations where they thought they had lost their kids to gangs etc. When one gets active in your community you find there are a lot of people around that are serving our brothers and sisters in any way can.Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 I disagree with them, but I'm not calling for their excommunication. Carb, you called for my excommunication because you caught me drinking root beer once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 But it wasn't even Barq's!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 But it wasn't even Barq's!!! :)I once bought some root beer for the missionaries. It was IBC, which as we all know, looks like beer. So, the darling LadyGator, with a twinkle in her eye, in front of the entire congregation says "Hey guys, your underage! Don't drink that! Everyone looked at us. We were both pretty new to the church at that time. Thanks hun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I've now been schooled in root beer enough to declare Henry Weinhard's is the best :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I've now been schooled in root beer enough to declare Henry Weinhard's is the best :) How do I like this 12 times? Henry's is definitely the best. mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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