I feel like we're in a cult


LilyBelle00
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Yep... I just used the dreaded "C word." After laughing at people who called the Church a cult all my life, now I'm feeling like I'm actually in one.

I do not believe that the LDS Church is a cult! I love the Church. I've been a member all my life. We belong to a very small branch and that's where our problems stem from. I feel like the branch "cultish". I'm sure "cult" is too strong of a word but I don't know how to describe it.

They keep scheduling activities and meetings. We are a tiny branch of maybe 20-30 active members, most of them over the age of 60. We are one of 3 families with young children. My husband is 2nd counselor in the presidency. He's expected to go to a meeting every Wednesday night. This meeting starts at 6pm and can last past 9pm because the other men sit around and just talk about random topics (fishing, work) and will not dismiss the meeting. My husband gets home from work at 5:30 so he doesn't get to spend any time with me or the kids that night (7yo, 4yo, and one on the way). He's also expected to stay after church every Sunday for another meeting that lasts "an hour". He didn't get out of church today until after 2.

They also schedule activities every week. We have at least 2 "branch activities" a month. This is just random "fun" things like fish frys or chili cook offs. We also have a monthly "family night" where everyone comes and does an activity...while the kids run around like crazy. It's definitely not what I'd consider a family night. Plus, we have BOM class and they want to start an "Addiction Recovery" class that the president thinks "everyone should come to".

This is of course all on top of my husband still having people to HT and being asked to take the missionaries out visiting a couple times a month.

He's getting majorly burnt out. Tonight we were sitting down to dinner and he got a call saying that he needed to go visit someone with the missionaries and he was the only one who could do it.

We are (or used to be) a very close family. This is hurting our marriage and our kids. They cry for him and ask why he's always gone. I'm 9 months pregnant and feeling abandoned. I try not to get angry with him because I know it's not his fault but it is frustrating. He feels like he can't say anything because the branch is so small and they "need" him for everything. I feel like the other men are piling too much on him and not realizing that he's the only one who also has a young family and a job to worry about (they are mostly either retired or semi retired).

And the guilt!! Last time he tried to bring up the fact that he was feeling stretched thin and like he wasn't spending enough time with his family, they told him that he needed to pray about his feelings...and continued to call him for everything. He also gets singled out sometimes in the meetings if we miss one of the branch activities. We like to do things together as a family, not with other people. We both work full time so we also enjoy our time off together...but he's made feel guilty if we skip out.

A few weeks ago my sister had her first baby. That Saturday was our branch's fish fry. We chose to go visit her and the baby instead...Sunday they wanted to know where we were and when he told them the president kept making little comments about how his "job" was to be there for the activities and that I could have visited my sister another day.

Apparently I've also been put on a list of people who need more attention and visits because I've missed the past 2 Sundays. The first one was because I was having major pregnancy pains and this one was because one of my kids was sick with a fever.

I feel like we are teetering on the edge of inactivity because we can't handle all this. We have been in other wards and I don't remember it being like this. We were inactive for many years and we were very happy and thankful when this little branch opened in our town but now we are both actually missing our inactive life!!

Is this normal?? Are other branches this busy and all consuming? I feel like we are being pulled away from other family and friends. Are we just being anti social? Because we can be. We are not very social and mostly just really enjoy being together as a family.

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Having a very social ward qualifies the church as a cult? I don't see the connection.

 

It does sound like it might be a problem and he probably needs to talk one-on-one from the bishop again, especially if he has followed his counsel and prayed about it and still feels as though things are too much. Especially with a baby coming soon.

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Lots of social activities? There are a great deal of people who would LOVE to be in such a close knit ward. My ward has maybe 5 big social activities a year.

My suggestion is that if it is putting strain on your family, simply just don't go to some of the extra activities, no problem. No need to go inactive over it. I'd still recommend you and your family attend activities on occasion, for you, your husband, and children, all people have various levels of socializing that are good for them.

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I understand, especially the part of wanting to be with your family sometimes rather than going to activities all the time. I can relate a lot to that. I've come to the realization that people don't understand how to communicate with people like us (those of us who don't need ward activities to feel close to our ward), so they ask "why weren't you there?" and we feel guilty for missing. Your family is important, especially with a baby on the way.

 

If you feel like your husband's calling is too much, you are very much allowed to voice your opinion in a meeting with you, the bishop, and your husband. We have responsibilities with callings, and if we feel we cannot put in 100% that is necessary for those callings, we are allowed to communicate this. We have to keep an open line of communication about these issues or we do result in just not coming to Church, which I promise isn't the right choice. The Lord wants you there on Sunday, and participating in activities at your level of comfort and availability (this is subjective to all). 

 

I'm pretty "antisocial" (more so introverted) and I don't like the socializing aspect of our culture, but I understand why it is so important. A lot of people need that socialization and constant amount of activities to go to. Then there are people like me, and maybe you, who don't need this and actually don't want it. This is okay. 

 

Voice your concerns (you specifically and your husband) to the appropriate ecclesiastical leader in a honest and heartfelt way (if you haven't already done so). At least that is what I would do if I was in your scenario. 

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You are popular.

It would appear they all like you.

That's better than the other possible side of that coin.

However, your husband needs to talk to the Bishop to get more free time. 

But they will still ask 'where were you' any time you are not there.  They do that 'cause they like you and they want to see you.  You just have to explain to them like you did to us here.  That you needed to take some time off to do the things you need to do.

dc

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Seems like you may feel like your husband is getting guilted into all these activities.

I hear you - you and he both are feeling burnt out!

 

It's easy to get burnt out and there is only so much a person can do.

How many official callings does he have?

 

I think you and your husband might want to have a sit down serious prayer and talk session.

 

I think you made the right choice in visiting your sister. 

 

Perhaps making a written list of "What is scheduled for next month" and then sitting down with him and prioritizing it might help?

 

Maybe something like 1) God, 2) Family, 3) Church Activities

 

But then, these are just things I think... in the end, the two of you have to decide what's most important to you and your family.

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Lily I know what you are going through, in most wards it seems that our leaders are generational in that they serve in their callings for an X amount of years then the younger generation take over those calllings and so on and so forth.

 

The old timers will sometimes feel like..."oh, I done my time to serve now its your turn MR. NEWEST COUNSELOR",  and so Im wondering if your husband is feeling that pressure from the other leaders that are trying to delegate too much to him? maybe?

 

In either case I honestly do not feel there is any loss of blessings should your husband ask to be released. It might be better since he probably doesnt want to be serving half-heartedly and under stress.

 

I notice in some wards that there are adults that have learned the system and ways around it. For example the most common one is "oh, I work on Sundays", thats always the easiest way to avoid callings with out having to flat out deny a calling and get on the Bishops bad side.

 

 

I do have to say though, the most admirable and respected members I know are the ones that are doing what your husband is doing, and doing it out of pure love and faith for the Church and its members. Right now there are several in our ward council (namely the RS president, Primary President, 2nd counselor bishopric) who are being pulled left and right in their callings but seem to enjoy the challenge. BUT, these 3 individuals are over the ages of 50 and their youngest kids no longer live at home.

 

...so, you can pray all you want but sometimes the Lord gives you answers right in front of your face and if the quality of your life is deteriorating then that might be your answer. I would see nothing wrong with your husbands decision to ask to be released.

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I understand, especially the part of wanting to be with your family sometimes rather than going to activities all the time. I can relate a lot to that. I've come to the realization that people don't understand how to communicate with people like us (those of us who don't need ward activities to feel close to our ward), so they ask "why weren't you there?" and we feel guilty for missing. Your family is important, especially with a baby on the way.

 

If you feel like your husband's calling is too much, you are very much allowed to voice your opinion in a meeting with you, the bishop, and your husband. We have responsibilities with callings, and if we feel we cannot put in 100% that is necessary for those callings, we are allowed to communicate this. We have to keep an open line of communication about these issues or we do result in just not coming to Church, which I promise isn't the right choice. The Lord wants you there on Sunday, and participating in activities at your level of comfort and availability (this is subjective to all). 

 

I'm pretty "antisocial" (more so introverted) and I don't like the socializing aspect of our culture, but I understand why it is so important. A lot of people need that socialization and constant amount of activities to go to. Then there are people like me, and maybe you, who don't need this and actually don't want it. This is okay. 

 

Voice your concerns (you specifically and your husband) to the appropriate ecclesiastical leader in a honest and heartfelt way (if you haven't already done so). At least that is what I would do if I was in your scenario. 

 

Why on earth would anyone presume that in this church of service, giving, self-sacrifice, giving up ourselves for the will of the Lord, etc., that going to a social activity would be related to whether they "needed" it or not?

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Why on earth would anyone presume that in this church of service, giving, self-sacrifice, giving up ourselves for the will of the Lord, etc., that going to a social activity would be related to whether they "needed" it or not?

 

I'm going to respond to this with my own understanding of what you're asking....because I'm not 100% sure.

 

I have many friends in my YSA ward who truly need the activities. They live alone. Their family is not in the same state. They are new to the area with very few friends. These activities help them to find friends, make relationships, feel included, and therefore do not result in becoming inactive. They need the socialization and want to be involved in activities (in which we have an activity EVERY day of the week)  and this is actually great for them. They go to work from 8-5 and would either be at home by themselves for the rest of the night, or at the church activity with a good group of friends and a healthy activity. Without it, they may fall into bad habits, find the wrong group of people to hang around, spend money on unnecessary activities, etc. My Bishop is pretty adamant about having lots of activities for that reason alone due to a lot of independent living YSA members with no family close to home. For myself, I live with my family and attend the YSA ward as I'm putting myself through undergraduate school. I come home to my family and hang out with them, do a lot of homework and studying, and call it a night. I usually don't attend the activities because I don't need them in the way that my friend does. Do I still go on occasion? Well of course. It's my ward family. But is my situation different than my friend's in the way that we view church activities? Yes. Same goes for family ward with a family of 5 kids and a family of newlyweds. They need the church activities in different ways. 

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant by "need" or maybe you didn't. I don't know. The struggle with text communication. 

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You guys need to learn a magical word: "No".

 

"No, I won't go to the barbecue this week.  I want to spend the night with my spouse"

"No, I won't go to addiction recovery class.  I need to stay home and rest."

"No, I won't let you make me feel guilty for taking care of myself and my family."

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This has a simple solution, in my opinion.

Your problem is the "feeling guilty". That's it. You don't trust God. Have you and your husband pray about the right balance of family and church and then stop feeling guilty about following what you believe God wants for you.

The ward keeps calling you because they need something. That's fine. Depending on what God wants for your family, you can say Yes or you can say No. If you feel inspired to say No - don't feel guilty! The ward can just go to the next phone number on the list.

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The point I'm trying to make is simple. We should go to church activities for others, not for ourselves.

 

I'm not sure I totally agree with this.  We can't help others effectively if we aren't taking care of ourselves as well.  I think we can get to a point that we just have to say no to some of these activities.  Especially if it is affecting our own family unit.

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Honestly the way I see it, and maybe I'm looking at it totally wrong and I'll add it on my "to-do" list of things to improve upon, is that activities are for us (and others) to help us become closer as a ward, to socialize, to have a fun time, to enjoy a healthy activity with your ward family, etc. I see visiting teaching/home teaching as the activity that is especially for others and not for us (although most of the time you end up learning a lot that benefits you). This is where you need to attend to those specific members' needs and desires. To help them if they need it. And this is not just a one time, "oh I stopped by their house and taught them the lesson" type of activity. This is your responsibility to oversee this person in the ward and notice if they aren't there on Sunday and check in if they are alright. If they're at the activity to go and say hi and see how their day is going. All of those small and important things that help the ward become more aware of each others' needs and to be more Christ-like.

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I'm not sure I totally agree with this.  We can't help others effectively if we aren't taking care of ourselves as well.  I think we can get to a point that we just have to say no to some of these activities.  Especially if it is affecting our own family unit.

 

That's beyond the point. I'm talking about the reasons we go.

 

There are too many people who's whole attitude about the church is what's in it for them. This is antithetical to the gospel and the covenants we make and the teachings of Christ.

 

As for affecting our own family unit -- I don't disagree that there needs to be balance here, but I suspect that most people who are up in arms about the church taking too much time from their families are really complaining because they just don't want to be bothered with the effort, and family is the excuse behind it.

 

Beyond that -- going to a church activity with your family is family time.

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Honestly the way I see it, and maybe I'm looking at it totally wrong and I'll add it on my "to-do" list of things to improve upon, is that activities are for us (and others) to help us become closer as a ward, to socialize, to have a fun time, to enjoy a healthy activity with your ward family, etc. 

 

But how can someone socialize, have fun with, and enjoy their ward family if part of the ward family is acting like the teenage son who sullenly refuses to join the family activities because he doesn't need to?

 

Others depend on you for the love, socialization, and ward comradely that you are denying them by not attending such things.

 

I see visiting teaching/home teaching as the activity that is especially for others and not for us 

 

That's all fine and dandy for the 2 or 3 families one home and/or visit teaches. What about the rest of the ward? Have we not covenanted to bear their burdens, mourn with them, raise them up and sustain them, etc, as well?

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Beyond that -- going to a church activity with your family is family time.

 

And sometimes we need private family time.  If we find ourselves only finding family time through church activities we need to re-evaluate.

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...we need to re-evaluate.

 

Indeed. And perhaps that evaluation may lead to the need to back away from some things. I would propose, however, that perhaps what might need re-evaluation is something altogether different, like unto, perhaps, whether "personal" family time is really important relative to the other things. It may be. It may be, however, that the "personal" side of it isn't as important as we may be making it out to be, and learning instead to work within the needs of the gospel to also have family time (personal or otherwise) may be the correct path.

 

Either way, the Spirit can guide. But it won't guide unless we truly humble ourselves and submit to whatever the Lord would have us do.

 

Railing against the church and calling it a cult is hardly the proper attitude one needs to find that needed spiritual guidance.

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But how can someone socialize, have fun with, and enjoy their ward family if part of the ward family is acting like the teenage son who sullenly refuses to join the family activities because he doesn't need to?

 

 

Ouch. Hope that wasn't a jab at me. There are many of us who feel drained from social activities. I personally deal with a lot of anxiety attending big group activities and do not find the "fun" most people do from them. Church activities are just that: activities. Building up and bringing a ward family closer is not centered just on church activities. Many cannot participate for multiple reasons. You're also using my "need" word for attending activities in the wrong context. I was very specific about the way in which I was describing "needing Church activities". This does not extend to every person or context. This was about those who need them for finding groups of friends, healthy activities, etc. vs. those who are in different scenarios. We're talking semantics here.

 

 

That's all fine and dandy for the 2 or 3 families one home and/or visit teaches. What about the rest of the ward? Have we not covenanted to bear their burdens, mourn with them, raise them up and sustain them, etc, as well?

Yepp, we definitely have. That's why when I do go to activities, and church on Sunday, and to temple night, I am fulfilling my covenants by being loving and caring for my fellow ward members. By listening to them about their day, asking if they need anything, looking out for those who are by themselves or seem unhappy. I am definitely not perfect in a lot of aspects of life. My struggle with church socialization and caring for every member in my ward is one of those areas where I am definitely far from perfect. That's why I am continuing to learn and grow through my weaknesses. 

Edited by BeccaKirstyn
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Ouch. Hope that wasn't a jab at me. 

 

It's not a jab at you or anyone. It is a sincere, meant to be weighed carefully, question.

 

I personally deal with a lot of anxiety attending big group activities and do not find the "fun" most people do from them.

 

But still, as I've said, personal "fun" is not the primary point (though it may be a side effect).

 

Church activities are just that: activities. 

 

No, they are not just that. Everything in the church is to one end and one end alone -- to bring souls unto Christ.

 

Building up and bringing a ward family closer is not centered just on church activities. Many cannot participate for multiple reasons. 

 

And I'm not claiming that everyone has to go to every activity or they're apostate. I am simply stating the purpose and reason that should be behind why we do attend these things. We should not be attending them to fulfill or not fulfill our own needs. They may do that, but our core purpose in all this things should be God's core purpose -- to feed His sheep and to bring to pass the eternal life of mankind.

 

You're also using my "need" word for attending activities in the wrong context. I was very specific about the way in which I was describing "needing Church activities". This does not extend to every person or context. This was about those who need them for finding groups of friends, healthy activities, etc. vs. those who are in different scenarios. We're talking semantics here. 

 

There's nothing semantic about it. We either move forward with an eye single to the glory of God or we do not. We either feed His sheep or we do not. We either give up our own interests in favor of His or we do not. We either serve our fellow man in order to serve God or we do not.

 

I am definitely not perfect in a lot of aspects of life. My struggle with church socialization and caring for every member in my ward is one of those areas where I am definitely far from perfect. That's why I am continuing to learn and grow through my weaknesses. 

 

Considering your admission of this (which I respect), I don't then understand why you seem to be contending against my broad point.

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Considering your admission of this (which I respect), I don't then understand why you seem to be contending against my broad point.

 

Because we do "need" activities for different reasons (like the ones I originally stated). This doesn't mean that because those individuals need activities in a different way than I do that we all don't need to be remembering the purpose of our life (as you've stated in relation to attending church activities). But we can and should view our personal needs in relation to church activities. If you disagree then we can agree to disagree about that. 

 

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But still, as I've said, personal "fun" is not the primary point (though it may be a side effect).

 

 

Maybe we're talking about different church activities here, and maybe that's the general problem between our disagreement. For example: a church activity my ward has every week is Volleyball Night. Where we go play volleyball for an hour and a half and some go out for ice cream or other treats afterwards. 

 

Then there are other activities such as: institute on Tuesdays, and ministering night onThursdays.

 

Very differing activities. My description of "needing" church activities is in relation to the formal activity (i.e., volleyball night, dodgeball night, games at the park night ---that are specifically NOT the YSA FHE activities. Those would fall under the second category of activities).

 

The other activities I would be in total agreement with you. They are not for me (I mean institute is for me to gain spiritual knowledge, but it's also to help others gain a testimony and to come together as a ward), they are to bring souls unto Christ, to  feed His sheep as you have stated.

 

Maybe this helps. Maybe it doesn't. 

Edited by BeccaKirstyn
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Folk Prophet

I'm one of those sheep.  I'm one who needs to be brought closer to Christ.  I'm one seeking that eternal life.  So yes I do go to all those activities, for me.

I need to go.  And I need to go and do the service for others, for them.

Which benefits me.

Who knows, maybe you are one of the sheep too.

dc

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