I feel like we're in a cult


LilyBelle00
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Folk Prophet

I'm one of those sheep. I'm one who needs to be brought closer to Christ. I'm one seeking that eternal life. So yes I do go to all those activities, for me.

I need to go. And I need to go and do the service for others, for them.

Which benefits me.

Who knows, maybe you are one of the sheep too.

dc

If you would learn to go to serve instead of to be served it would actually fill those needs you have. Until you do learn this, it can never.

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I am honestly confused at how anyone can disagree with what The Folk Prophet has written on this topic. Seems perfeclty obvious to me. This is not a question of whether you are An Unworthy Person® because you don't go to the ward chili cookoff.

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Railing against the church and calling it a cult is hardly the proper attitude one needs to find that needed spiritual guidance.

 

Gosh, I didn't feel she was "railing against the church" - she was reaching out for some help.

 

Instead she gets verbally slapped upside the head and told she needs an attitude adjustment.

 

(I'm editing and re editing because what I WANT to say isn't very nice)

 

Pam gave the best advice in my opinion:

 

 We can't help others effectively if we aren't taking care of ourselves as well.  I think we can get to a point that we just have to say no to some of these activities.  Especially if it is affecting our own family unit.

Edited by AnnieCarvalho
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Guest LiterateParakeet

Gosh, I didn't feel she was "railing against the church" - she was reaching out for some help.

 

Instead she gets verbally slapped upside the head and told she needs an attitude adjustment.

 

(I'm editing and re editing because what I WANT to say isn't very nice)

 

Pam gave the best advice in my opinion:

 

 We can't help others effectively if we aren't taking care of ourselves as well.  I think we can get to a point that we just have to say no to some of these activities.  Especially if it is affecting our own family unit.

 

Annie, I couldn't have said it better than you and Pam.  :)

I don't disagree with the idea that we go to activities to serve others, in fact, aside from taking the Sacrament, serving others may be the main reason we go to church on Sunday as well.  But we also have to prioritize, as Pam said AND our first "duty" to serve is the children and spouse that we have been blessed with.  We can't all do everything all the time.  And we can each do different things at different seasons of our lives.   

 

LillyBelle, you are nine months pregnant that's enough reason to feel worn out and want your husband home right there.  :)  May I suggest a wonderful book?  It's called Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend.  It is not an LDS book, but it is Christian.  And it is very valuable.  I think you will find some great help in that book!

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Maybe we're talking about different church activities here, and maybe that's the general problem between our disagreement....

 

Becca you are wasting your time arguing with him, I been there done that. Any perspective other then his is wrong and he is not shy about trying to find fault in others opinions.

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I agree TFP makes wonderful sense.

Let's just not turn his advice into a warped version of "the branch family wants always always always trump your family needs". Instead, pray to be aware of and available for your church. That does not necessarily mean maintaining the status quo for the OP.

I think the best advice has been given. Prayerfully reevaluate the schedule and learn to say no.

The branch may need your husband in many cases. In many others they may be too comfortable with his willing service.

I will include the personal thought that chiding your husband over visiting your sister seems inappropriate. All things being equal, I don't think the branch has the right to make a call there.

Edited by Backroads
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Here is what the church handbook says on the matter of family, callings, and activities.

God has revealed a pattern of spiritual progress for individuals and families through ordinances, teaching, programs, and activities that are home centered and Church supported. Church organizations and programs exist to bless individuals and families and are not ends in themselves. Priesthood and auxiliary leaders and teachers seek to assist parents, not to supersede or replace them.

Priesthood and auxiliary leaders must endeavor to strengthen the sacredness of the home by ensuring that all Church activities support the lives of individuals and families. Church leaders need to be careful not to overwhelm families with too many Church responsibilities. Parents and Church leaders work together to help individuals and families return to our Father in Heaven by following Jesus Christ. (Handbook 2, Section 1.4)

 

When extending callings, scheduling leadership meetings, and planning activities, leaders consider the family circumstances of members. Church service and participation always entail a measure of sacrifice. However, strong families are vital to the Church, and members should not be asked to make excessive family sacrifices to serve or to support programs of activities. (Handbook 2, Section 17.2.1)

 

Some wards and branches love to get together often. But when activities start to negatively effect the family, or individual, it is time to take a step back. I don't think that means our husband needs to drop his calling, it simply means not attending every activity. Sometimes a bishopric members feel they needs to be to every activity but this is not required. 

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Becca you are wasting your time arguing with him, I been there done that. Any perspective other then his is wrong and he is not shy about trying to find fault in others opinions.

 

I, for one, do not believe this is The Folk Prophet.  At all. 

 

This is a forum.  I admire people who stand up for their principles and not just cave in to somebody else's differing opinions "to be nice".  We have different styles of expressing our principles.  Our principles, themselves, differ and our way of expressing them also differ.  You be You and allow TFP to be TFP.

 

Remember, when you're arguing with The Folk Prophet, it could possibly be YOU who is trying to find fault in his opinions.

 

Understand what he is actually saying.  He's got a point.  Especially in this case.  You know why the homosexual children's baptism issue became a mountain instead of just a molehill?  Because people don't even bother to try to understand what the Church is actually saying.  They just want to go off feeling offended.  Don't be that person.

Edited by anatess
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Guest MormonGator

We aren't. Cults tend to die when the founder/leader passes on. That's why the dudes who started a faith off of a comet or something aren't followed now. We are a religion, complete with people who think totally differently. There are liberals, conservatives, apolitical and you name it that are LDS. 

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I feel people are twisting her words. 

 

She said

 

"After laughing at people who called the Church a cult all my life, now I'm feeling like I'm actually in one.

I do not believe that the LDS Church is a cult! I love the Church. "

 

There are many definitions of the word "cult" and she states that may not be the correct word.  The British Dictionary definitions for cult include the following. The last definition may be the way she is FEELING, that certain members of her branch or ward are pushing her husband to do more than he is physically and emotionally capable of doing and still maintain a healthy family life.
FEELINGS aren't facts. They are FEELINGS and they are valid, no matter how far from the facts they seem.
This is not the first time I've heard this complaint. LDS members have a pretty high rate of burnout, in my experience. And a burnt out Priesthood Leader or his wife are not good to anyone.  They certainly don't need more guilt poured on.

 

cult
/kʌlt/
noun
1.
a specific system of religious worship, esp with reference to its rites and deity
2.
a sect devoted to such a system
3.
a quasi-religious organization using devious psychological techniques to gain and control adherents
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Guest LiterateParakeet

I do not believe that the LDS Church is a cult! I love the Church. I've been a member all my life. We belong to a very small branch and that's where our problems stem from. I feel like the branch "cultish". I'm sure "cult" is too strong of a word but I don't know how to describe it.

 

 

Anne is right.  LilyBelle clearly said here she doesn't think the church is a cult, she was just trying to find a word to explain how suffocating her branch feels right now.  Is "suffocating" a good way to describe it LilyBelle?  That's how I feel just reading about your branch.  :)

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We aren't. Cults tend to die when the founder/leader passes on. That's why the dudes who started a faith off of a comet or something aren't followed now. We are a religion, complete with people who think totally differently. There are liberals, conservatives, apolitical and you name it that are LDS.

With all due respect and with your post being technically true, I think you missed the meat of LilyBelle's post.

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Anne is right.  LilyBelle clearly said here she doesn't think the church is a cult, she was just trying to find a word to explain how suffocating her branch feels right now.

 

Right...so that's the "I'm not calling you a jerk, I'm just saying you're acting like one" work-around. ;)

 

The point isn't really about the word she used. The point is that the post was, in a word, murmuring. My response isn't meant as a cut down, but as advocacy to re-think the approach. The response we should have to problems needs to stem from a place of humility and willingness (despite a real concern for practical needs) rather than from a "I'm just about to go inactive because I'm so oppressed" p.o.v.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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Guest MormonGator

With all due respect and with your post being technically true, I think you missed the meat of LilyBelle's post.

 I did, looking back. My bad. Sorry. 

Edited by MormonGator
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To LilyBelle00 and BeccaKirstyn: I signed up just so I could post this.  I'm certain, BeccaKirstyn, you are an introvert (just one of your comments was enough to confirm that) and I think, LilyBelle00, you and/or your husband might well be too.

 

A lot of introverts don't realize they're introverts (we've been convinced over the years to try to act like extroverts - which only works for so long).  Most people are extroverts (people disagree on percents, but they agree on the "most" part) and most people (extroverts and introverts both) don't understand what makes a person an extrovert or introvert (they think it's a behavioral choice or "personality").  Learning where introversion / extroversion comes from allows you to appreciate both and figure out what you need to be both happy and successful in all your relationships - including ward activities.

 

As a person in her 40s, I grew up in an age when introverts were treated like there was something wrong with them (and apparently some still think there is).  It took a problem at work and a question from a friend to get me to go research why I am the way I am (an extreme introvert), and to realize that despite what I grew up with, there's nothing wrong with me and my introversion.  Introversion is not a choice, it is not a disease, it is a matter of neurochemistry.  I'm in a much better place now, as are all the people I socialize with - because I understand what's going on now.

 

So I'm posting the best explanations I've found regarding the what it is to be an introvert vs. an extrovert in hopes that it will help you understand, explain to others, and adjust your lives such that you and those around you are all happier with your interactions:

 

Detailed Explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ5o9PcHeL0

 

Quick Explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZ1fPr9FJg

 

Woman who's trying to change the way the world views introverts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0KYU2j0TM4

 

Prayer, as always, will help, but the Lord expects us to study things out, and the above videos really helped me to understand my own feelings and thereby find a path that lets me give my utmost.

 

With love,

 

Zil

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When I was in a bishopric many years ago and the meetings seemed to last forever, I would pre arrange to have someone call me on my cellphone at a pre determined time.  Then, I could gracefully leave to handle the "problem or emergency".

 

Sounds crass, but after my time in another church organization whose leader would not control the time element, I made a decision to never accept a church calling where I couldn't control the meetings.  This stuff can really get out of hand.

 

So I sympathize with Lilly in the meeting element.  The above is a suggestion on how to control it.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Right...so that's the "I'm not calling you a jerk, I'm just saying you're acting like one" work-around. ;)

The point isn't really about the word she used. The point is that the post was, in a word, murmuring. My response isn't meant as a cut down, but as advocacy to re-think the approach. The response we should have to problems needs to stem from a place of humility and willingness (despite a real concern for practical needs) rather than from a "I'm just about to go inactive because I'm so oppressed" p.o.v.

Lol, no. Are you married? More importantly do you have kids? If you read her post again notice she is 9 months pregnant! And she has other kids. She's likely frazzled and just wants her husband back. Be patient. ;)

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Lol, no. Are you married? More importantly do you have kids? If you read her post again notice she is 9 months pregnant! And she has other kids. She's likely frazzled and just wants her husband back. Be patient. ;)

 

My patience is irrelevant. I don't know her from Eve.

 

What is relevant is the principle at hand. The proper response is never, and will never be, murmuring.

 

The proper admonition for one who does murmur -- even if there is good reason to do so -- is patience, faith, long-suffering, commitment, diligence, etc.

 

I'll grant that simply saying, "Stop complaining" is not the correct way of doing this (I am married, and that's how I know this). ;) But the point, ultimately, comes down to the same.

 

How does one kindly say, "stop complaining?" :hmmm:  

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handbook 2: as referenced from 19.1.1:

Although service in Church callings requires sacrifice, it should not compromise a member’s ability to fulfill family and employment responsibilities (see 17.2.1). Before calling a married person to an assignment that requires a significant time commitment, Church leaders consider the effect of the calling on the marriage and family.

 

 17.2.1
Family Circumstances

When extending callings, scheduling leadership meetings, and planning activities, leaders consider the family circumstances of members. Church service and participation always entail a measure of sacrifice. However, strong families are vital to the Church, and members should not be asked to make excessive family sacrifices to serve or to support programs or activities.

One family circumstance to consider is the Church calling(s) held by a member’s husband or wife. Individual families should not be overburdened with Church responsibilities. Another circumstance to consider is the overall time demands that members face in supporting their families and taking care of other personal matters. In some areas of the world, members of necessity work two or three jobs. These are legitimate considerations for leaders to weigh in extending callings, scheduling leadership meetings, and planning activities.

 

 

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Hello LilyBelle. I understand what you are feeling. I’ve felt the same to a certain extent. I do think you are using too harsh a word for the situation.

 

My advice for this would be to lean on Christ. Others have already talked about praying and asking what the Lord would have you do. And that is an excellent suggestion. What I am talking about here goes beyond that. Rely on the atonement. It is not just for sin. It is also for these times we feel overwhelmed and stretched and that we just can’t do it anymore. We can’t do it all. Not on our own. We need Christ’s atonement to strengthen us. Utilize the grace of Christ, sister.

 

Grace was a topic touched on quite a bit during this last General Conference. Elder Larry R. Lawrence said “God’s grace is sufficient to help us.” And Pres. Dieter F. Uchtdorf called on us to “allow His grace to lift and carry us during our journey.” I would encourage you to study the topic. Lean on your Savior, sister. He can help you if you let Him.

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