Forum Bullying


AnnieCarvalho
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I spent some time in the wee hours this morning thinking about forum bullying.  Maybe some on the forum, myself included, might benefit from the information I found online about forum bullying, definitions, and solutions.

* * *

 

Forum bullies are self-appointed protectors of their own sometimes twisted truth and detail. They are belligerent, in-your-face, combative, sarcastic, cynical, projecting an air of superiority, and have an extensive vocabulary they use to cow those they are addressing. 

 

Verbal bullying is their main joy in life. They thrive on it.

 

Most forum bullies are compensating for something lacking in their life, something they are missing such as respect, friends, social graces, sex, etc.   Maybe they’re PO’d because they’re bald or short. Maybe nobody validates them in the real world. Or maybe they’re just nasty people who didn’t get enough love as a child.

 

Forum bullies feel compelled to address every single thread they disagree with. They are like a moth to a flame. They MUST respond because the other guy is an idiot and doesn’t know what he or she is talking about, and someone (meaning them) must right the injustice done and squash the false information being disseminated by THAT idiot. They continue to come back and back and back until their opponent either gives up and walks away out of disgust or sadness.

 

Forum bullies probably don’t have much of a life and not many true friendsIf they have a wife or husband, or children, they most likely treat that person the way they treat people online.

 

Bullies use unsubstantiated personal attacks to denigrate their victims.  Often, they make fun of their victim’s intelligence, twist his/her words, get everyone to laugh at him, and in doing so isolates and degrades their target.  In this way, their victim is neutralized, and serves as a strong reminder to everyone of the bully’s or the bully GROUP’s power. 

 

Bullies rule through fear. Most forum members will sit back in silence because they can’t - or aren’t willing - or aren’t emotionally prepared or just don’t want to deal with an attack on THEM by the forum bully. That fear strengthens the bully. He/she knows nobody is going to stand up and challenge him/her.

 

Bullies usually attack weak or new targets.

If you come to a forum with a heavy heart, deep concerns, uncertain, or emotionally vulnerable, and there is a bully present, you more than likely will end up on a serving plate. New members  are a bully’s favorite because they are new, unproven, and do not yet have a support system. They are alone – and therefore easier to hunt-down and DESTROY!

 

It reminds me of putting a new hen into my henhouse. The leader of the pack will attack her, chasing her away from food and water, not allowing her to roost, pushing her to the bottom of the flock, killing her if she resists. 

 

Why are people bullies?

 

There might be many reasons.

Perhaps that is the way they were reared, being exposed to violence and rudeness. They weren’t reared with manners or common sense.

 

They get a thrill out of verbally beating up people online for no reason except their own twisted entertainment and feelings of superiority. For them, beating the heck out of someone is like getting points of power in a video game.

 

The most common reason bullies prevail is because nobody will stand up to them or report them.

 

Bullies are often cowards who are full of talk; immature adults who never quite grew up and need to fill an empty void in their hearts by beating people up online without being challenged.

 

How to Deal with Forum Bullies

 

SPEAK UP!

Complain to the owners of the forum.

Every single time you see a bully step out of line, complain.

Report it.

Do not get involved with name calling or sink to the level of the Forum Bully

When you see a Forum Bully attack someone, report it, every single time.

Do not stop.

Eventually, and hopefully, they will cease or be evicted.

 

Ask yourself – why are you here? Is there benefit to staying?

No?

Well, before you leave, ask yourself if it might be worth staying?

 

It might be that if just a few “nice people” start standing up to the bullies, the entire tone of the forum could brighten and transform into a place where people can find Christ’s love instead of an emotional or verbal beating.

 

Or maybe not. Maybe it’s just not worth the effort to get involved.

You have to choose.

 

Do you really want the forum to be an arena where people with problems are “put in their place? “

 

Or do you want this to be a safe place where people with problems can come to bounce off ideas, maybe find solutions to things that are eating at them?

 

Do you want this to be a place where investigators can rub shoulders with real members of the church, and get answer so their questions, even if you’ve heard those questions a million times in anti-LDS literature? Even if you suspect them of having ulterior motives. Even if...

 

If you want this to be a safe place, a friendly place, a place of Christ-like love, then maybe you might want to lock arms and speak up more often when you see people being bullied.  

 

Will I become a member of the thousands who have tossed up their hands and left?

I hope not.

I feel there is great value here and a wonderful opportunity to be a firm, but kind, example of a Latter Day Saint.

 

I've fallen short, I know.

I'm going to try harder.

 

(edited so as not to point fingers)

Edited by AnnieCarvalho
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Not everyone that joins lds.net joins it for the forums.  They also join for the article side so they can comment on the articles.  And a great majority of the names you see probably joined as a means to spam.  And then there are those who joined years ago and have just quietly gone away.

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Not everyone that joins lds.net joins it for the forums.  They also join for the article side so they can comment on the articles.  And a great majority of the names you see probably joined as a means to spam.  And then there are those who joined years ago and have just quietly gone away.

 

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

I still feel my post is valid, but I'll go add a sentence. 

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A couple of thoughts:

 

1)  I don't think that majority of the inactive people were driven away due to bad treatment of members.  Rather, I would suggest that majority simply went inactive due to getting busy or they just had one question and it was addressed.

 

2)  That's not to say that bad behavior doesn't ever happen on here (including bullying).  When this happens, it should be immediately be reported and the mods will deal with it.  

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A couple of thoughts:

 

1)  I don't think that majority of the inactive people were driven away due to bad treatment of members.  Rather, I would suggest that majority simply went inactive due to getting busy or they just had one question and it was addressed.

 

Yes, this could be very true. That would account for a large number of people leaving.

 

2)  That's not to say that bad behavior doesn't ever happen on here (including bullying).  When this happens, it should be immediately be reported and the mods will deal with it.  

 

I agree.

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What is the difference between bullying and disagreeing, Annie? For example, if a person points out the flaws and weaknesses of another's arguments, is that "bullying"? If a person brings his or her own experiences or quotes scripture or studies in substantiation of his/her opinion, is that bullying? If more than two people disagree with a given poster, are they "ganging up" on him/her in a bullying manner, or are they simply expressing their (perhaps deeply held) opinion to the contrary?

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In addition to what Pam said...  For the small subset that don't feel welcome

 

This is a community, as a community "Every body" needs to do their part.  Everybody has agreed to obey the rules when they signed (even if they only blew through it).

 

One of the things that mods have repeatedly asked everybody to do is if they see something that they think breaks the rules to report and then ignore it.

 

Do you know how many people do their part?  Very few.  Most posters decide to give as good as they get, they complain of being harassed or attacked, yet there is not a single report to their name.  And when the mods look over the thread they see the one complaining giving as good as they get. 

 

That leaves the mods with a problem.  We can justly and fairly crack down on both sides and listen as both complain that we are being totally unfair.  Or the mods can say since they are taking it into their own hands and not reporting it they are really getting what they want, inspite of what they say and let it play out.

 

Now we mods tend to go the later route.  But we are always willing to listen to respectful ideas for improvement.  Should the mods take a more firm hand on dealing with who are being offensive.. with the full understanding that giving and taking offense is in many way in the eye of the beholder?

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No, I don't believe that.

There is a difference between bullying and disagreeing.

People can disagree in a kind and respectful manner.

 

You miss the point. Calling someone a bully is a form of bullying. It's name calling with the intent to cow and silence them.

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What is the difference between bullying and disagreeing, Annie? 

 

I think the difference is in this paragraph:

 

Bullies use unsubstantiated personal attacks to denigrate their victims.  Often, they make fun of their victim’s intelligence, twist his/her words, get everyone to laugh at him, and in doing so isolates and degrades their target.  In this way, their victim is neutralized, and serves as a strong reminder to everyone of the bully’s or the bully GROUP’s power. 

 

For example, if a person points out the flaws and weaknesses of another's arguments, is that "bullying"?

 

No.

 

 If a person brings his or her own experiences or quotes scripture or studies in substantiation of his/her opinion, is that bullying? 

 

No.

 

If more than two people disagree with a given poster, are they "ganging up" on him/her in a bullying manner, or are they simply expressing their (perhaps deeply held) opinion to the contrary?

 

No.

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I think the difference is in this paragraph:

 

Bullies use unsubstantiated personal attacks to denigrate their victims.  Often, they make fun of their victim’s intelligence, twist his/her words, get everyone to laugh at him, and in doing so isolates and degrades their target.  In this way, their victim is neutralized, and serves as a strong reminder to everyone of the bully’s or the bully GROUP’s power.

 

This is fascinating, Annie. Really. Although I dislike analyzing things in terms of power dynamics, which far too often skew sharply toward the communist/socialist/feminist/leftist end of the scale. I actually agree that what you have said (or quoted) above is a real and objectionable phenomenon, and in my mind does constitute bullying of a sort.

 

But what I find fascinating is that you have perceived a certain "core" group of forum members who mutually support each other and who bully as you have described above. Can you provide examples (links, and we're talking about words, not names) of this taking place? Though I am not one of the Cool Kids, I know who they are, or at least who I think they are, and I cannot recall any such ganging up with name-calling and such taking place.

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You miss the point. Calling someone a bully is a form of bullying. It's name calling with the intent to cow and silence them.

I see this far too often on my job as an elementary teacher. It's too often a joy to declare others bullies.

I'm going to be honest: I rarely see true bullying here and I've been here 5 years. I don't think I'm inner clique, either.

Be it known that feeling less than stellar over a disagreement is not bullying. Bullying is a,long-term attack against a specific person.

I guess I see personalities here that are what they are. It's also necessary in Internet communications to be frank and to the point. This can come off as harsh.

If you see what you sense is bullying, quote the statement for clarification and/or inform the mods. A vague sense of discomfort is useless.

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You miss the point. Calling someone a bully is a form of bullying. It's name calling with the intent to cow and silence them.

 

No, I don't miss the point at all.

I agree the best course of action is probably not to call names.

Reporting the bullying to the moderators, or simply giving a little kind support to the person being attacked is probably a better course of action. 

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But what I find fascinating is that you have perceived a certain "core" group of forum members who mutually support each other and who bully as you have described above. Can you provide examples (links, and we're talking about words, not names) of this taking place? Though I am not one of the Cool Kids, I know who they are, or at least who I think they are, and I cannot recall any such ganging up with name-calling and such taking place.

 

No, that is not what I said. 

And no, I won't call out people.

That wasn't the purpose of the post.

The purpose was to define bullying and to ask people to please speak up and try to be more kind to each other.

 

If you don't think bullying is an issue, then you probably have not been bullied.

That's awesome!

This post probably doesn't apply to you, then.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

As a general principle, I think personal attacks should be avoided.  It is one thing to debate ideas, and another thing to start making personal attacks. 

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Here's a fun light-hearted exploration of what Annie is seeing here:

 

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/index.htm

 

This one is so me, it's funny:

royals.jpg

 

The Royals

Whether through virtue, contributions, force of personality or sheer longevity certain forum participants will rise to form an aristocracy. While it is generally taboo to openly acknowledge the class distinctions, the hierarchy is well understood by all. While for the most part the Royals rule with magnanimity, they will not tolerate impertinence from the hoi polloi. It is their habit to remain aloof from petty squabbles among their subjects, but when full-scale war breaks out their intervention can be decisive.

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I have been looking back through  your posts to see if I could identify somewhere that you were being ganged up on. I did see that one the first threads you participated in, a lot of people were disagreeing with you. I've been in that position. It feels awful! It continues to feel awful for days. But I'll echo what others have said: disagreeing is not bullying. 

 

There are some here who get (too) passionate about things sometimes. Some who get (too) zealous sometimes. Some who are (too) easily offended. I've been included in all of those groups, and I'm trying to be better, as I hope we all are when we see our errors. Honestly though, in my years here, I have never detected a clique of any kind. In fact, the more passionate/zealous of us are disagreeing, arguing, even fighting with each other as much as with anyone else. 

 

I've been involved in many forums in the last 15+ years. I can't think of any with fewer strong personalities and strong opinions than this one, including the other lds forum I regularly participate in. People get keyboard courage and push harder than I think they would in person, and yes sometimes that pushes over into bullying territory, though I would say rarely here it this forum, and then it is put to a stop. Unfortunately, I think it's just the nature of somewhat anonymous communication.

 

I do agree that LDS people should hold ourselves to a higher standard, and I hope we're all striving to always improve. 

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No, that is not what I said.

And no, I won't call out people.

That wasn't the purpose of the post.

The purpose was to define bullying and to ask people to please speak up and try to be more kind to each other.

Vort wasn't asking you to call put people just, just words.

We have just words here on the forum. No body language. Pointing out phrases can help clarify meanings and intent.

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