Modesty

[Guest]

Boy, Mormons sure like to toss out the "judgment" word.  Especially while in the act of judging others.

....

 

Leah,

 

I read all your posts.  And I think you actually have the right idea.  But I also think others have the right idea too.  It may sound confusing.  But the fact is that "modesty" is not an absolute.  And that is why I have not commented much on these modesty threads.

 

There is no winner or conclusion to be gained out of them.  Just a lot of people with different ideas of what it is to be modest and why.  But it has been interesting to get different people's take on the topic.

[JojoBag]

I don't think it's any of your business whether or not her costume would allow her to wear her garments. Why do we care so much? I really don't understand. That decision is between her and The Lord. The teaching about modesty and the appropriate wearing of the garment is compatible with your relationship with Heavenly Father (which is also none of your business). I don't mean to sound crass but this conversation to me is beyond righteous judgment. This is us pointing fingers at those who aren't "obeying" the principles the way we think they should be obeying them. Your opinion about her choice to wear a costume that was more "revealing", I'm assuming, has no bearing on your own salvation or hers. This is beyond righteous judgment to me and goes straight under the category of unnecessary and unkind judgment. Would you be willing to say this to this sister's face? Would you want someone else to approach you with some other sin in which you were falling short? I certainly would not. 

 

I understand that we are trying to discuss that us "LDS" folks don't understand the true concept of modesty and we're trying to make a point out of it. But conversations like this are not the way to do it. How about we look to our own lives and how WE are living the principle of modesty. How can we improve? How can we teach our children this (if applicable)? How can we be better members of the Church? This is worthwhile discussion. 

 

The attitude of "what's the big deal" is precisely the attitude that promotes the problem of immodesty in the Church.  In fact, most of the problems in the church can be traced back to apathy and lack of knowledge.  We have an obligation to stand up for what is right.  There is nothing unrighteous about saying that it is wrong to wear something drastically immodest.   What's the difference between being an LDS model who goes around promoting immodest clothing and an LDS guy who owns a bar?  Both immodesty and breaking the WoW are both commandments.  Both situations are promoting breaking commandments even if they don't partake of it themselves.

 

What about that pesky scripture that says, "I, the Lord, cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance?"

[Guest]

At the risk of generating a thread jack (BTW, JJB started it) I see no problem with owning a bar or a liquor store.  It has to do with covenants.

[BeccaKirstyn]

The attitude of "what's the big deal" is precisely the attitude that promotes the problem of immodesty in the Church.  In fact, most of the problems in the church can be traced back to apathy and lack of knowledge.  We have an obligation to stand up for what is right.  There is nothing unrighteous about saying that it is wrong to wear something drastically immodest.   What's the difference between being an LDS model who goes around promoting immodest clothing and an LDS guy who owns a bar?  Both immodesty and breaking the WoW are both commandments.  Both situations are promoting breaking commandments even if they don't partake of it themselves.

 

What about that pesky scripture that says, "I, the Lord, cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance?"

You can say wearing immodest clothing is wrong. You can have an opinion about it all you want. But when any person begins to claim that a specific individual is being immodest because of their choice of clothing, and then talks about it to other people (gossiping), that crosses a line. If I see another young woman and I think "wow, totally not a modest outfit" I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling in my heart for recognizing this. I instantly feel bad for being judgmental. What if that is the only outfit she has? What if she doesn't understand the principle of modesty? What if she finds this outfit modest and I just don't? 

 

The Lord will look upon sin in His own accord. As for me, I have no place to look upon someone else's sin and say anything about it. 

[Vort]

The Lord will look upon sin in His own accord. As for me, I have no place to look upon someone else's sin and say anything about it. 

 

Then speak for yourself. Your judgmentalism against anyone who doesn't accept your bizarre take on this issue is pure hypocrisy.

[BeccaKirstyn]

Then speak for yourself. Your judgmentalism against anyone who doesn't accept your bizarre take on this issue is pure hypocrisy.

I am speaking for myself. Am I stating my opinion about how I think anyone pointing out someone else's sin is a sin in of itself? Sure. But you don't have to agree with me (which you have just stated, and is perfectly fine). 

 

And thank you for your kind words. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Am I stating my opinion about how I think anyone pointing out someone else's sin is a sin in of itself? Sure.

 

Which is, by your definition, a sin...

 

...and by which definition I just sinned.

 

Man!

[BeccaKirstyn]

Which is, by your definition, a sin...

 

...and by which definition I just sinned.

 

Man!

Good thing none of you have to agree with my own opinion. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Good thing none of you have to agree with my own opinion. 

 

It's not a matter of us agreeing or not. It's a matter of hypocrisy. You are, by your theory, declaring yourself sinful for even expressing the theory. It's just interesting that you don't seem to be aware of that.

[Vort]

And thank you for your kind words. 

 

Irony: The gift that keeps on giving.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

The attitude of "what's the big deal" is precisely the attitude that promotes the problem of immodesty in the Church.  In fact, most of the problems in the church can be traced back to apathy and lack of knowledge.  . . . 

What about that pesky scripture that says, "I, the Lord, cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance?"

 

First of all, I didn't understand Becca to be saying "what's the big deal?"  Rather I thought she was saying, "how is that any of your business?"  Which I agree with.

About the scripture, that applies to your sins as well.  

 

The Lord will look upon sin in His own accord. As for me, I have no place to look upon someone else's sin and say anything about it. 

I agree with you. Unless that person is part of your stewardship...for example your children.  

I think Pres. Benson would agree with you too.  In his classic talk, Beware of Pride:

 

Another major portion of this very prevalent sin of pride is enmity toward our fellowmen. We are tempted daily to elevate ourselves above others and diminish them. 

 

The proud make every man their adversary by pitting their intellects, opinions, works, wealth, talents, or any other worldly measuring device against others. In the words of C. S. Lewis: “Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. … It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition has gone, pride has gone.”

 

 

And before anyone says: But you'e prideful too, LP.  I know I am.  I'm working hard to overcome it, but I think it is the last sin any of us will overcome.  So it's a process.  Pres. Benson also said:

 

Pride affects all of us at various times and in various degrees.

 

 

I'm well aware that that includes me.  

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1989/04/beware-of-pride?lang=eng

Edited November 15, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[BeccaKirstyn]

Thanks, LiterateParakeet. You put it in a much more clear way.