MLM Scam. How to approach....

[Str8Shooter]

I was contacted by a ward member the other day about a certain multi-level-marketing (pyramid scheme) scam that is run by Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady, two of the greatest scammers ever.  I mean, these guys are genius right down to Google bombing and selling support product to support their other failing product. They are also pros at manipulation by edification.

I can say no to this stuff easily.  That is not the problem.  The problem is that I care about the ward members and it really bugs me when I see them getting sucked into this stuff that is most likely illegal.

 

How do I approach the member and tactfully tell them they are being scammed and they are perpetuating a scam?

Sincerely,

 

 

Str8Shooter,

 

The guy who has no tact and says awkward things that totally offends people when he is trying to be nice.

 

 

[MrShorty]

What "evidence do you have of their legality/illegality? A quick google search finds several "ripoff" accusations, some attempts to get people to call their AG and so on, a lot of "these guys are shady". I was concerned for the "recruiter", I would be tempted to phrase my "no I'm not interested" to include something like, "because I've researched this opportunity and found that it is led by two guys with a lot of questionable accusations directed at them. No matter how good the opportunity sounds, I do not want to get involved in something with this much potential to be illegal."

[Guest]

"I am not interested in doing business with these kinds of companies" has worked for me. Doubtful you can talk them out of being involved, but you can make it clear that you want no part of it.

[lagarthaaz]

I've mentioned before that this sort of thing is rife in my ward where certain people are constantly trying to get church members to buy or invest in schemes and products. Just be prepared to get bitten if you say something negative to 'believers' in the scheme because the person who is trying to sell will be upset with you for sabotaging their sales opportunities. And, those who follow will be upset because they believe they have already used their good judgement and you are just an awful cynic. This happened to me and the salesperson still hates me for it!

[john doe]

If they hate you, that's a good thing, isn't it? That means they won't try selling their product to you anymore.

[Guest]

While I'm not familiar with your particular example, I do find that some MLMs are legitimate businesses.  However, it is a poor business model for all but the top few levels.

 

When you have no clear areas of jurisdiction, you have competition within the company.  One "dealer" is competing with another dealer.  I wanted to purchase a product that I'd done research on and found that a particular MLM had the greatest quality and the best price.  But three people I knew had a justifiable claim for my business.  How does that help?  Part of the parent company's job is to prevent infighting.  But not so with MLM.

 

No, I don't want to be a distributor.  But I find no problem with making purchases if the quality and price are there.

[Backroads]

My uncle made his millions in an MLM.

Not one of his kids joined the business. He has a lot of kids.

Take that as you will.

[mordorbund]

My uncle made his millions in an MLM.

 

Millions of what exactly?! I'm going to assume kids. He made his millions of kids as a traveling salesman for a MLM.

 

Not one of his kids joined the business. He has a lot of kids.

 

Well that makes all kinds of sense now, doesn't it.

 

 

Take that as you will.

 

Oh I did.

[NeuroTypical]

I can say no to this stuff easily.  That is not the problem.  The problem is that I care about the ward members and it really bugs me when I see them getting sucked into this stuff that is most likely illegal.

 

How do I approach the member and tactfully tell them they are being scammed and they are perpetuating a scam?

 

Tact?  "a keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense; skill in dealing with difficult or delicate situations"?

 

Ok - you can avoid giving offense.  You don't have an iota of impact in whether people take offense or not.  How do you approach them?  How about by treating them with respect, and presenting them with the same transparent honesty you showed all of us anonymous faces here on lds.net?

 

"I care about you folks, and it really bugs me when I see you getting sucked into this stuff that is most likely illegal."

 

If they're interested, share your concerns, and give them the respect due a child of God in possession of their agency.  Reaffirm your friendship/love for them.  Then stop talking about it.

Edited November 16, 2015 by NeuroTypical

[NeedleinA]

Being invited to a ward members house for dinner = nice and thoughtful

Being invited to a ward members house under the disguise of dinner only have the MLM people jump on you = not so nice and thoughtful

[Guest]

Some "friends" invited us to a fun movie night. Faramir is pretty introverted and doesn't love being in big groups, but a movie night with another couple sounded nice. So we got there, and we were one of several couples who had been manipulated to go watch "The Secret". We left. "Friend" couldn't understand why.

[The Folk Prophet]

Some "friends" invited us to a fun movie night. Faramir is pretty introverted and doesn't love being in big groups, but a movie night with another couple sounded nice. So we got there, and we were one of several couples who had been manipulated to go watch "The Secret". We left. "Friend" couldn't understand why.

 

Now that's just underhanded of them. Of course sounds about typical for an MLM tactic.

[NeuroTypical]

So, advocare is an MLM.  That said, a buddy invited me over for an advocare evening, where there'd be an advocare presentation, followed by advocare discussion by advocare people.  

 

Buddy says he really is not interested in building a network.  He wants to sell enough product to get his 40% distributor discount, so he can buy stuff for himself at 40% off.  Which is code for 'reasonable price'.  He's offering to pass his discount on to anyone who buys through him.  I did, and he did, and so far life is good.  

 

Buddy remains buddy, because of his totally transparent, honest dealings with me.  

 

----

 

Years ago, neighbor came by, wanting to form friendships.  Neighbor had this great idea.  "Say, I have a great idea!  Why don't we all come over to my house so I can tell you about this great money-making opportunity!"

 

We never formed friendship with neighbor, because of her manipulative lying.  Never was interested in friendship.  Used promise of friendship to try to expand network and make money.

 

----

 

It astounds me that so many LDS folks get all mixed up and confused about stuff like this.

[The Folk Prophet]

It's amazing to me how many MLM invites I've had that the only way I knew they were MLM invites prior to attending (or rejecting) is because I've had other MLM invites and is smells fishy. It's like it promotes dishonesty.

[Vort]

Some "friends" invited us to a fun movie night. Faramir is pretty introverted and doesn't love being in big groups, but a movie night with another couple sounded nice. So we got there, and we were one of several couples who had been manipulated to go watch "The Secret". We left. "Friend" couldn't understand why.

 

Is "The Secret" an MLM initiation movie?

[Guest]

Is "The Secret" an MLM initiation movie?

 

Yeah, I guess. This couple got into a few different things with "The Secret" as their justification for spending a lot of time and money trying to sell. . . I'm not sure what. I know they traveled and did paid seminars about marriage for awhile, which is ironic for many reasons I won't get into. 

[Backroads]

Any party where "the new great thing" is being advertised is a party I don't want to attend unless the product interests me. However, I guarantee you I don't want to join the team... and let's be honest, these are mostly about building the team.

[NeedleinA]

Wife just reminded me about a couple others...

 

1. She was invited to go to lunch and bring the kids to play. Wife thought, "oh, she wants to be my friend, that's nice" - nope MLM lunch instead

 

2. I was approached by the area Seminary Director, I was a seminary teacher at the time, about his son-in-law being a small business adviser and could he talk with me. Since we own a small business I said yes (dumb on my part). MLM garbage from his son-in-law, zero small business advise. Nice me quickly turned into get out of my office. Even after I literally kicked him out, he called the following day to see if was still interested.

 

To this this day, I will never trust the sincerity of these three individuals or their real motives.

Edited November 17, 2015 by NeedleinA

[NeuroTypical]

Heh.  I was unemployed in the '90's for a while, and had my resume out on a million websites.  Got a call from a company named something like MegaTechnoTronics Unlimited or some such - they liked my skillset and wanted to interview me.  Red flag #1: The interviewer leaned in close and said as if sharing a secret, that he'd discovered a great way to make a [crap]load of money.  Red flag #2, the presentation for all the applicants would start soon.  The big wall of "product", the sensationalist urgent message, yeah, it was an MLM.  I left.

 

A few weeks later, a different call from a different company on a different end of town - SuperTronicTech Limited or some such.  Different people - but when I walked through the door I saw the exact same wall of "product" - I guess it was a standard display setup thing.  The attractive cleavage receptionist lady saw me walking out and tried some weird jedi mind trick thing by making powerful eye contact and saying "go back in".  Yeah, no.

 

A day or two after all of that, I got a call from an employer saying I had been hired, and when could I start?  It took me a minute to realize it was someone from one of those two companies.  

 

Me: "Oh - right - the multilevel marketing scheme people.  Look, John, I don't...."
Him: "Scheme?  I don't understand - this is an aboveboard job."

Me: "Ok, look.  I do not accept employment with you folks.  I do not believe I'm a right fit for your company.  I am discontinuing my interest, and I am letting you know I'm turning your offer down and you should look elsewhere. I do not want any further contact from you or anyone else in your company.  Am I clear, or do I need to start looking into how to file a complaint against you people?"

Him: "I think you have us confused with someone else - this is SuperChipTasticMegaTechno Company [or some such], we're leaders in the industry of..."

Me: "Call me again and I'm filing a police report." [click]

 

Yeah, no love for these guys.  John said he was a returned missionary, and I have no reason to doubt him.  It's a shame.

Edited November 17, 2015 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

Wow. Serious question: Is this a Utah thing?

[NeuroTypical]

It's a USA thing.  I've read more than one article about how Mormons fall for it more than other groups though.

[NeedleinA]

It's a USA thing.  I've read more than one article about how Mormons fall for it more than other groups though.

 

I agree with the articles too, shame. Has happened to us several times while living in Utah at BYU and several times out in the Midwest USA too. Utah Valley is full of places like this from makeup, island mystery drinks and discount coupon cards. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by NeedleinA

[Backroads]

I once heard it hypothesized Mormons tend to fall for these things due to our desire for self-sufficiency. What better than being your own boss? My aforementioned wealthy MLM uncle often does select his fellow Mormons as potentials. I was nannying my younger cousins in college before conference streaming was as easy as it was. He held a conference party at the company office space and it still wound up a bit of an MLM celebration. Yup, Mormons and conference and MLM and rejoicing in independence.

[Guest]

Mormons fall for MLMs for two reasons.

 

1) Many of the big name MLMs are founded by LDS.

2) MLMs are based on personal relationships more than commercial viability.  Mormons have lots of personal relationships.

3) Based on #2, their success is dependent upon people wanting to be nice to the vendor.  Mormons like to be nice.

 

Nowadays (as is evidenced by this board's responses) people are on to them.  Many Mormons have been made wary of them.  The statistic will change.

[priesthoodpower]

MLM companys are ideal in Mormon communities because of the potential to sell to many "friend" members in the ward, its a simple numbers game. Definitely works for the people on the top because of the pyramid system. My older cousin graduated from college and was the first person in our region to join a phone card MLM (back in 1999). One day while I was driving with him to the gym he made a stop at the bank to deposit a check written for $12,600, he leaned over to show it to me and said..."you see all this money im making off all those suckers!!!!"