When fighting a kickboxer, keep your guard up.


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Mad sport. Ms Rousey is lucky not to get brain damage out of this. I still can't believe the organisers managed to find 56,000 people to attend the fight in Melbourne - I'd never even heard of these women until they hit our news over the past week or so. 

 

I also read that Ms Holmes won $100,000 in prize money. This doesn't seem much considering the same article stated that the UFC "grossed over $9.53 (AUD) million on ticket sales alone which is a stadium gate record."

 

Kinda sweet how they weep and thank god and their trainers for blessing them with a victory after the match.  

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Mad sport. Ms Rousey is lucky not to get brain damage out of this. I still can't believe the organisers managed to find 56,000 people to attend the fight in Melbourne - I'd never even heard of these women until they hit our news over the past week or so. 

 

I also read that Ms Holmes won $100,000 in prize money. This doesn't seem much considering the same article stated that the UFC "grossed over $9.53 (AUD) million on ticket sales alone which is a stadium gate record."

 

Kinda sweet how they weep and thank god and their trainers for blessing them with a victory after the match.  

 

The contents of Holly's contract is unknown.  But if we just go by what has been leaked on the Rousey/Correia fight, Holly may have been offered a guaranteed fight purse of $100,000 win or lose.  So $100,000 is the LEAST amount of money she would have walked away with regardless of how the fight turned out... I mean, she could've gotten knocked out in the first 10 seconds and she would still walk away with $100,000.

 

As it turned out, she won the match, so, in addition to the fight purse, she also gets, 1.)  victory bonus, 2.) fight of the night bonus, 3.) performance of the night bonus, 4.) Reebok bonus, 5.) paid UFC promo appearances, at the least.

 

Also, if the contract clause included PPV (this is not done to all the fights, but since her fight is one of the highlights, it's more than likely they got a PPV clause), she gets a cut of PPV sales although Rousey's cut would be higher as she's the main draw.  They had a record PPV take last Saturday.

 

But, this is just the start for her.  It took her over 40 matches to earn a net-worth of $1M.  Knocking out Ronda could easily get her a cool $1M in less than a year in endorsements and paid appearances.  And that's not even counting a good position on contract negotiations for the rematch.

Edited by anatess
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As far as the match... I am an Anti-Rhonda fan.  Basically, I cheer for anybody going against Rhonda.  Sometimes, it is hard to cheer for the anybody... like Correia - I did not like her at all and I was not in any way sad that she got knocked out in 30 seconds.

 

The reason I do this is because Rhonda... and now Joanna in the straw weight division... are terrible role models for young girls.  This type of attitude is not what little girls should be emulating.  Joanna's predecessor is also a terrible role model from her actions in the Ultimate Fighter show so I was happy that she didn't hold the title for long.  But Joanna is not it, either.  Her opponent last Saturday is also not a good role model so the results of the straw class was fine.

 

Rhonda is just too big for her britches.  Her attitude in the Ultimate Fighter show was just so terrible.  Her deliberate misunderstanding of Correia's comments in UFC 190 making it about her dad is disgusting.  And then her deliberate aggression to Holly and then pretending that Holly punched her in the weigh-ins when the video clearly shows she's the one that clamped Holly's arm so it will swing towards her is just par for the disgusting Rhonda-attitude course.  All the way to the beginning of the fight where she showed very poor sportsmanship when she refused Holly's handshake is just that type of attitude that our girls should not be emulating.

 

Everybody knew Holly is a formidable kick boxer.  She carries several boxing titles for a reason.  They were all legitimate belts.  But Rhonda showed zero respect for her skill.  This is a prime example of a cup that is already full stops learning and stagnates.  Rhonda's cup was overflowing and her performance last Saturday is proof positive that she has stopped learning.  Her pre-fight interviews reiterated that she is going to win a stand-up fight with Holly.  And so she played a stand-up fight against a champion kick boxer and got a full dose of humble pie.  Hope the pie empties her cup!

 

Holly, on the other hand, has the right attitude I am looking for in a champion and role model for girls.  I am hoping she doesn't change in that regard.  I am super excited for the future of this amazing fighter!

Edited by anatess
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As far as the match... I am an Anti-Rhonda fan.  Basically, I cheer for anybody going against Rhonda.  Sometimes, it is hard to cheer for the anybody... like Correia - I did not like her at all and I was not in any way sad that she got knocked out in 30 seconds.

 

The reason I do this is because Rhonda... and now Joanna in the straw weight division... are terrible role models for young girls.  This type of attitude is not what little girls should be emulating.  Joanna's predecessor is also a terrible role model from her actions in the Ultimate Fighter show so I was happy that she didn't hold the title for long.  But Joanna is not it, either.  Her opponent last Saturday is also not a good role model so the results of the straw class was fine.

 

Rhonda is just too big for her britches.  Her attitude in the Ultimate Fighter show was just so terrible.  Her deliberate misunderstanding of Correia's comments in UFC 190 making it about her dad is disgusting.  And then her deliberate aggression to Holly and then pretending that Holly punched her in the weigh-ins when the video clearly shows she's the one that clamped Holly's arm so it will swing towards her is just par for the disgusting Rhonda-attitude course.

 

Everybody knew Holly is a formidable kick boxer.  She carries several boxing titles for a reason.  They were all legitimate belts.  But Rhonda showed zero respect for her skill.  This is a prime example of a cup that is already full stops learning and stagnates.  Rhonda's cup was overflowing and her performance last Saturday is proof positive that she has stopped learning.  Her pre-fight interviews reiterated that she is going to win a stand-up fight with Holly.  And so she played a stand-up fight against a champion kick boxer and got a full dose of humble pie.  Hope the pie empties her cup!

 

Holly, on the other hand, has the right attitude I am looking for in a champion and role model for girls.  I am hoping she doesn't change in that regard.  I am super excited for the future of this amazing fighter!

 

I'm struggling a bit with the concept that any UFC fighter is the right role model for girls.

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I'm struggling a bit with the concept that any UFC fighter is the right role model for girls.

 

A UFC fighter is just as much an athlete - and promotes the same sportsmanship - as an Olympic gymnast.  Anybody who walks into a TRUE dojo (not some McDojo) learns this.  But, of course, just like not all gymnasts are good examples of the spirit of the sport, not all UFC fighters are good examples of the spirit of that sport either.

 

There's a reason they showed a woman fighter in the Meet the Mormons movie.

Edited by anatess
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A UFC fighter is just as much an athlete - and promotes the same sportsmanship - as an Olympic gymnast. 

 

Sorry. You're never going to convince me on the "sports" point. But even if you could, you're certainly never going to convince me on the UFC point. I would never even let me daughters watch such events, nor would I think they will ever want to, and if they did I would, actually, be somewhat concerned.

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Sorry. You're never going to convince me on the "sports" point. But even if you could, you're certainly never going to convince me on the UFC point. I would never even let me daughters watch such events, nor would I think they will ever want to, and if they did I would, actually, be somewhat concerned.

 

You say tomato, I say tomahto... waste of breath to convince anybody who is already convinced, really.

 

I got a houseful of jiujitsu tournament fighters.  I have a completely different perspective than you.

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Was great to see that happen, she has had it coming and finally someone could make it happen.  Realistically I still think Ronda takes the rematch.  I think she got caught up in her own hype thinking she had great standup and thought she could stand with holly.  Always the chance she gets rocked coming in because she is terrible at closing the distance, but I think she would be the favorite on the 2nd fight.

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Was great to see that happen, she has had it coming and finally someone could make it happen.  Realistically I still think Ronda takes the rematch.  I think she got caught up in her own hype thinking she had great standup and thought she could stand with holly.  Always the chance she gets rocked coming in because she is terrible at closing the distance, but I think she would be the favorite on the 2nd fight.

 

Holly is just beginning.  She has now experienced un-clinching from Rhonda.  She has the range to keep her at a distance and with superior kickboxing expertise and also now has more time to improve on her ground game.  Jon Jones was the top of his class because of that fighting range.  It wasn't until later that he gained expertise on the ground as well.  Rhonda will have to learn not to rely too much on her judo and figure out a way to penetrate that striking.  So, (if Rhonda humbles herself) Rhonda and Holly goes into the rematch on even ground.  I predict Holly will be able to command the octagon again as it is easier to keep somebody at a distance that it is for somebody to penetrate a long reach... as is proven by Jones.

 

But, as is evident in UFC, anything can happen in the octagon.

Edited by anatess
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You say tomato, I say tomahto... waste of breath to convince anybody who is already convinced, really.

 

I got a houseful of jiujitsu tournament fighters.  I have a completely different perspective than you.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying "sports" as an activity has no value, or that choosing a fighting sport is condemnable, per se. We're talking about role models. I'm just not convinced that having as a role model someone who kicks the snot out of others for entertainment is ever the ideal. I'm not convinced that any sports figures are ideal role models, and if they are, it certainly isn't because of their prowess at said sport.

 

In short, I would have my children (sons or daughters) have role models for things of eternal import. Having my children think "I want to be like (insert celebrity sports figure here)" would be concerning to me...the concern going up or down depending on both the sport and the individual mentioned, and UFC being at close to if not at the top of the list of concerning sports.

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Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying "sports" as an activity has no value, or that choosing a fighting sport is condemnable, per se. We're talking about role models. I'm just not convinced that having as a role model someone who kicks the snot out of others for entertainment is ever the ideal. I'm not convinced that any sports figures are ideal role models, and if they are, it certainly isn't because of their prowess at said sport.

 

In short, I would have my children (sons or daughters) have role models for things of eternal import. Having my children think "I want to be like (insert celebrity sports figure here)" would be concerning to me...the concern going up or down depending on both the sport and the individual mentioned, and UFC being at close to if not at the top of the list of concerning sports.

 

You don't understand the inner workings of the sport that's why you don't see the eternal value of the sport.  Just like you don't understand the eternal value of scouting.

 

Sports figures are not role models because they are good at the sport.  The sport is merely the activity by which the characteristics manifest.  Sports role models become so because they exhibit characteristics of humanity in the face of opposition.  This is different than a Hollywood role model wherein they become role models not because of some movie they were in.  It's rare to find the characteristic manifested in one's acting of a movie role.  Whereas, a sport can manifest the character right in the middle of the sports event.

 

If you're watching UFC and all you see are two Romanesque gladiators beating each other up, then yes, it's hard to see how this manifests character.  But, for those who grew up around martial arts, we see a completely different side of it.

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You don't understand the inner workings of the sport that's why you don't see the eternal value of the sport.  Just like you don't understand the eternal value of scouting.

 

The ignorance of this statement is almost astounding. I am an Eagle Scout and I have been heavily involved in a variety of sports through my life.

 

I'm also led to presume you have no interest in actually understanding what I'm saying. So be it. Stepping out of the conversation.

 

Edit: per " Just like you don't understand the eternal value of scouting." I am actually just flabbergasted. Where on earth did you come up with this? Why are you making things up?

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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The ignorance of this statement is almost astounding. I am an Eagle Scout and I have been heavily involved in a variety of sports through my life.

 

I'm also led to presume you have no interest in actually understanding what I'm saying. So be it. Stepping out of the conversation.

 

Edit: per " Just like you don't understand the eternal value of scouting." I am actually just flabbergasted. Where on earth did you come up with this? Why are you making things up?

 

I am not privy to your personal history.  I was only basing it by your statement on another thread that tying knots and using a pocket knife has no utility in one's eternal progression and your statement here that says you don't see anything about sports to be worth a role model.

 

I didn't take you to be one of the wilting lilies around here.

 

Edit:  I'm not sure I'm using wilting lily in its proper usage.  Onion skin is perhaps the more appropriate phrase.

Edited by anatess
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I am not privy to your personal history.  I was only basing it by your statement on another thread that tying knots and using a pocket knife has no utility in one's eternal progression and your statement here that says you don't see anything about sports to be role modeling for.

 

Which only goes to show that you are reading a bunch of stuff into what I say.

 

Case in point: I never said I "don't see anything about sports to be role modeling for". I said, and it's right there in plain text, that I don't consider it an ideal. As in there are better options. As in good, better, best.

 

Edit: Whoops. I said I was stepping away. And I am. I don't care. I won't post on the matter again here.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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Holly is just beginning.  She has now experienced un-clinching from Rhonda.  She has the range to keep her at a distance and with superior kickboxing expertise and also now has more time to improve on her ground game.  Jon Jones was the top of his class because of that fighting range.  It wasn't until later that he gained expertise on the ground as well.  Rhonda will have to learn not to rely too much on her judo and figure out a way to penetrate that striking.  So, (if Rhonda humbles herself) Rhonda and Holly goes into the rematch on even ground.  I predict Holly will be able to command the octagon again as it is easier to keep somebody at a distance that it is for somebody to penetrate a long reach... as is proven by Jones.

 

But, as is evident in UFC, anything can happen in the octagon.

 

Holly showed great movement, something I really haven't seen too much of her since she crossed over to mma. She finally is showing what many people expected of her, and that is great.  But Ronda wasn't actively trying to take her down, the one instance she did was more opportunistic.  IMO Jon Jones is not a great example to compare to Holly Holm.  Jon jones uses his length really well to keep distance, Holly uses alot better foot work and Angles. Holly came from a boxing/kickboxing background, Jones comes from a wrestling background, huge difference when discussing Holly keeping it on the feet.  Jones has improved ALOT on his BJJ, and we haven't seen too much of Hollies. Slipping out of ONE arm bar attempt though does not make me think she can continue to do it in a rematch if Ronda focuses on that.

 

I believe Holly is a legit top teir fighter in that division, and that the win wasn't a fluke by anymores.  But we see this all the time, bad gameplans can make great fighters look amateur.  Holly still has a good chance to win the next fight, but I would put my money on Ronda (if she mentally gets over the beating she took, which might not happen at all).

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Which only goes to show that you are reading a bunch of stuff into what I say.

 

Case in point: I never said I "don't see anything about sports to be role modeling for". I said, and it's right there in plain text, that I don't consider it an ideal. As in there are better options. As in good, better, best.

 

Edit: Whoops. I said I was stepping away. And I am. I don't care. I won't post on the matter again here.

 

FWIW, I'm not really a fan of martial arts either--and ultimate fighting least of all.  But, on the other hand--a client of mine involved in a custody dispute with her toddler's dad introduced me to her fiancee not too long ago, and apparently he's pretty well known on the local MMA/Ultimate Fighting (is there a difference?  Shows what I know) circuit; and he was really an extraordinarily sweet, conscientious, polite kind of guy.

 

Go figure . . .

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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MMA/Ultimate Fighting (is there a difference?  Shows what I know)

 

MMA is to "Ultimate Fighting" more or less what basketball is to NBA games. An "ultimate fighter" is an employee of the Ultimate Fighting Championship, or UFC, and is paid by them to engage in MMA matches with other UFC employees.

 

("Employee" is perhaps the wrong word, since UFC fighters are more like contractors to the UFC and are paid on a per-fight basis. But you get the idea.)

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It really is interesting to me too see how this fight turned out, now that's it a week old. Human nature loves a winner, but Rhonda Rousey is still popular. 

 

Is Ronda still on media black-out?  I haven't seen her surface yet.  Not even to wave at her fans at the airport.  She kept her face hidden the entire time.  I wonder if it's simply a "I can't show my bruises since I'm a movie star" kinda thing or if it is psychologically a lot deeper than that.

 

On another note, I saw a trailer of Meisha/Holly/Cyborg's movie and... yuck.  It is ugly.  Hope they don't pick it up at the theaters.

 

In any case, the experts all agree... if the rematch stays standing, Holly is gonna win.  If it stays on the ground, Ronda is gonna win.  Who learned to master a better defense gets to wear the belt.

Edited by anatess
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Guest MormonGator

Is Ronda still on media black-out?  I haven't seen her surface yet.  Not even to wave at her fans at the airport.  She kept her face hidden the entire time.  I wonder if it's simply a "I can't show my bruises since I'm a movie star" kinda thing or if it is psychologically a lot deeper than that.

 

On another note, I saw a trailer of Meisha/Holly/Cyborg's movie and... yuck.  It is ugly.  Hope they don't pick it up at the theaters.

 

In any case, the experts all agree... if the rematch stays standing, Holly is gonna win.  If it stays on the ground, Ronda is gonna win.  Who learned to master a better defense gets to wear the belt.

I think she is in worse shape than the public knows. No, I don't have insider information, but that was a brutal knockout. I mean, boom gone. 

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FWIW, I'm not really a fan of martial arts either--and ultimate fighting least of all.  But, on the other hand--a client of mine involved in a custody dispute with her toddler's dad introduced me to her fiancee not too long ago, and apparently he's pretty well known on the local MMA/Ultimate Fighting (is there a difference?  Shows what I know) circuit; and he was really an extraordinarily sweet, conscientious, polite kind of guy.

 

Go figure . . .

 

It isn't really a surprise.  Real dojos instill good moral character, respect, and self-discipline in their students.   That's what the Karate Kid movies were all about.  Bad Martial Arts Schools versus a real martial arts practitioner.  Miyagi is the ultimate in sweetness, conscientiousness, and politeness.  That's why I so wanted Rhonda to lose... she's gotten too big for her britches that she has become the anti-Miyagi.

 

People see an MMA fight and all they see is two people beating each other up.  This is really not what the sport is about.  It is much like chess - it is the subtle movement and counter movement  and thinking a few steps ahead that makes up the sport.  In the old days - you had karate championships, judo championships, kickboxing championships, tae-kwon-do championships... all very limited in what you can do.  In MMA - you use any style to attack and counter-attack... so you'll see judo get checked by jiujitsu and karate get checked by kickboxing, and vice versa and etc. etc.  So, it's exactly like what Ip Man said in the Grandmaster Ip Man movie when this guy that Ip Man just beat said, "Your northern style is superior to my southern style" and Ip Man responded, "it's not about the style, it's about you".

 

In Holly's post fight interview, she thanked all her coaches - her wrestling coach, her kickboxing coach, her striking coach, her cardio coach, her head coach, etc.  She said, I'm thankful that I was able to execute my team's plans for this fight.  She acknowledged that it is a team effort and not just an "it's all about me" execution.  It's not supposed to be this "I'm gonna destroy you!" kind of sport which Rhonda has made it to be.  Holly's "I respect you as a fighter and I'm going into this as a team" attitude is bringing the sport back to what it should be.

Edited by anatess
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