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Guest MormonGator
14 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

KISS opened for Aerosmith?  I thought they were "peers" for lack of a better word.  You know what I mean, usually opening acts are to introduce someone lesser known...I thought they were more on the same level.  Oh man, I'm probably digging myself even deeper into Nerd-dom here aren't I?  I should just delete this before I post, but my curiosity is stronger than my pride. 

No, you are absolutely right-most of the time the opener is a lesser known band. 

However Kiss was/is in their twilight and Aerosmith is from Boston. Their lead singer, Stephen Tyler has thick NH roots so they are huge up in NH. Kiss was the second band to take the stage after Automatic Black or Buckcherry. It was part of the Roximus Maximus tour and it was in late November of 2003. Near Thanksgiving. 

Out of the 7,000 there I'd say 6500 were in for Aerosmith. I saw just two people in full Kiss make up. I was excited because it was the last tour that Peter Criss (original drummer for Kiss) would preform in. 

Edited by MormonGator
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Guest MormonGator
5 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Cool!  Thanks.  You're not a serious fan or anything, right.  Heh heh!

I refuse to admit anything without consulting with my attorney first. 

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Guest Godless
2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

No, you are absolutely right-most of the time the opener is a lesser known band. 

However Kiss was/is in their twilight and Aerosmith is from Boston. Their lead singer, Stephen Tyler has thick NH roots so they are huge up in NH. Kiss was the second band to take the stage after Automatic Black or Buckcherry. It was part of the Roximus Maximus tour and it was in late November of 2003. Near Thanksgiving. 

Out of the 7,000 there I'd say 6500 were in for Aerosmith. I saw just two people in full Kiss make up. I was excited because it was the last tour that Peter Criss (original drummer for Kiss) would preform in. 

Also, I learned recently that sometimes big-name bands will "co-headline" a tour. Marilyn Manson and Smashing Pumpkins did this last year. Manson played first and Pumpkins followed, but the promotional material for the tour seemed to have them equally billed. Though in retrospect, Pumpkins really should have gone first. People started leaving after they had played all the hits and only had new stuff left to play.

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Guest MormonGator
1 minute ago, Godless said:

Also, I learned recently that sometimes big-name bands will "co-headline" a tour. Marilyn Manson and Smashing Pumpkins did this last year. Manson played first and Pumpkins followed, but the promotional material for the tour seemed to have them equally billed. Though in retrospect, Pumpkins really should have gone first. People started leaving after they had played all the hits and only had new stuff left to play.

All true. I LOVED Marilyn Manson in the 90's. 

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Guest Godless
1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

All true. I LOVED Marilyn Manson in the 90's. 

I actually never really got into him. That concert was more for my wife than me. I have to say though, his performance was incredible.

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Back in the '90's, my wife got into one of Marilyn Manson's back stage parties, even though she wasn't a huge fan.  While expressing this opinion, a guy named Brian Warner overheard her talking, and asked her why she didn't like Marilyn's music.  My wife said "I don't like the shock jocks."  Brian apparently expressed respect for her opinion.

(p.s. Brian Warner = Marilyn Manson without the stage makeup)

Edited by NeuroTypical
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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Back in the '90's, my wife got into one of Marilyn Manson's back stage parties, even though she wasn't a huge fan.  While expressing this opinion, a guy named Brian Warner overheard her talking, and asked her why she didn't like Marilyn's music.  My wife said "I don't like the shock jocks."  Brian apparently expressed respect for her opinion.

(p.s. Brian Warner = Marilyn Manson without the stage makeup)

Yup. He (Warner) is known to be extremely bright and actually very polite. I don't know him personally but that's what I've heard. 

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@LiterateParakeet @unixknight

I see PC as a means to silence somebody or paint them as something bad to make you look good.  It's an imposed rule governed by those with the loudest microphone to bring about a desired cultural change that doesn't have much to do with progress but more to do with gaining political advantage.

White guy 1:  Orientals have almond eyes.

White guy 2:  Calling them orientals is a derogatory word, therefore, you must really think less of Asians.  You are a racist.

Asian guy:  Oh, hi.  I'm Roy Wong, the Oriental representative for the University.  How may I help you?

White guy 1:  You're racist!

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Guest Godless

I met some Mongolian soldiers on my first tour of Iraq. My squad leader asked one of them if they consider themselves Oriental. His response: "Mongolians are not Oriental, but all Oriental are a little bit Mongolian".

 

Fun story.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

@anatess2, I disagree, but thank you for explaining your position.  It has seriously been a mystery to me for sometime.  It helps to know where others are coming from even when we disagree.  

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12 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I disagree, but thank you for explaining your position.  It has seriously been a mystery to me for sometime.  It helps to know where others are coming from even when we disagree.  

So in light of that, how do you see it?  It's my turn to be edified :P

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Thanks for asking @unixknight

 I explained it a bit, up thread. To save myself typing (I'm on my phone), I'll paste that here and then add a little.

I think it is a good policy to try not to be easily offended, but at the same time as Christians we shouldn't carelessly give offense either.  In my family we have a rule, strictly enforced, that if someone is teasing and the other person says stop, it stops.  No excuses.  We tease a lot in our family, and this rule keeps us from taking things too far.  The way that I understand Political Correctness is basically the same idea...call people what they prefer to be called, don't call them something they have specifically said they don't appreciate.

I think that a big part of the problem is that people on "opposing sides" don't really listen to each other. I'm still struggling to understand why. I think there is denial and cognitive dissonance happening, sometimes in politicals on both sides, and sometimes more on one side than the other.

So one side says, I don't want to be called that or treat led that way and the other side (not listening or not understanding) says, "Don't be a baby." Which in turn makes the other side defensive and they get angrier and angrier until ther is no hope of the two parts ever understanding one another. 

Perhaps, I'm naive and idealistic because I keep thinking that if I could just explain my side (of just about any issue) to the other side they would say, at least "I disagree but I can see why you feel that way."  Or sometimes they might even change their mind. The former is rare, and the latter I can't think of a single instance (except for myself, I've changed views on my things...big things...I credit severe adversity to making me maleable.) No to say it doesn't happen, I just can't think of any instances like that. Another reason I am inclined to listen to others is because I have shifted my views so much, I now have opposing views with my husband and sons on many issues. We have to try listen even when we disagree for family harmony. 

BTW, I really appreciate you asking my opinion. That's the kind of listening I seek. I understand if you still disagree.

 

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@LiterateParakeet Thanks for the reply.  I had seen that post I was just curious about whether there would be anything to add.  I disagree, but I think what we have in common is that none of us want to be offensive or insensitive for its own sake, and of course teasing stops being fun if the target is upset by it.  I think maybe where we differ is the extent to which we'd have others cut us some slack in what we're saying and know that if we mean no offense, they shouldn't take offense.  That's not an easy thing to make standard though, so I admit it might be a little unrealistic.

On a separate note, one of the things that makes me react viscerally to the concept of Political Correctness is that it's a term that comes from Vladimir Lenin, who isn't exactly known as a champion of free thought or open expression.

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24 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Vladimir Lenin

For reasons I don't think I ever knew, we called him "Dead Fred".  "Him" being the "body" in his mausoleum in Red Square - we were pretty sure it was wax, not actually Lenin's remains (though the keepers would have killed their own mothers rather than admit that).  There were rumors scientists had taken his brain to study (you know, in hopes of making more like him).  I went to see him once, at the end of my tour, cuz my friends said it was just wrong to have been in Moscow that long and not have seen "Dead Fred"...  The soldiers guarding the tomb were dead serious.  It wasn't that impressive.  IMO, not one good thing came from Lenin.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Oh fetch, you know the glitch that causes the double posts? Well I thought I had figured out a way to out smart it...it has worked before, but today I did it and lost a long (awesome of course) phone typed response. Ack!!!!

I don't want to write that out again, so I'll try a shorter approach. How do we apply this conversation to the disagreement we have here on the forum about Lehi? 

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7 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

How do we apply this conversation to the disagreement we have here on the forum about Lehi?

Why is it necessary to single me out?

Lehi

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2 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Why is it necessary to single me out?

Lehi

Because it was recent, I suppose.

8 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Oh fetch, you know the glitch that causes the double posts? Well I thought I had figured out a way to out smart it...it has worked before, but today I did it and lost a long (awesome of course) phone typed response. Ack!!!!

I don't want to write that out again, so I'll try a shorter approach. How do we apply this conversation to the disagreement we have here on the forum about Lehi? 

I think that his description of why he uses the term seems reasonable, and to compel him to change would be to limit his ability to express the ideas he's communicating.  Therefore, I wouldn't want him to have to make a change to it.  Given that this intentions are not to offend or to be critical of the U.S., I don't understand why people have an issue with it, but since he doesn't have any intention of causing offense, this is one of those times where you should cut each other some slack.

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Guest Godless
3 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I think that his description of why he uses the term seems reasonable, and to compel him to change would be to limit his ability to express the ideas he's communicating.  Therefore, I wouldn't want him to have to make a change to it.  Given that this intentions are not to offend or to be critical of the U.S., I don't understand why people have an issue with it, but since he doesn't have any intention of causing offense, this is one of those times where you should cut each other some slack.

I never got the impression that anyone was trying to force him to stop using his terminology. It seemed more like people were trying to make it clear to him that such terms make it hard to take him seriously, which is something I have to agree with. He's not trying to offend, and I sincerely doubt that many people are actually offended by his linguistic quirks. It seems more a matter of distraction than offense, something which leaves people annoyed and agitated. Personally, I find it agitating when I'm reading something and have to take a few seconds to process an unnecessary made-up word. It distracts me from the rest of the message being conveyed and hampers my ability to take it seriously. If he wants to continue using that terminology, that's absolutely his choice, but it needs to be understood that there are those here to who don't like it and may be a little curt in their responses as a result.

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I wrote that response to clarify the position of those who don't like the term, because a few pages back (I'm not going to dig for it), someone insinuated that being annoyed by it makes us akin to those precious SJW babies. I wasn't okay with that standing, so I thought it necessary to clarify. Not trying to single out Lehi as much as defend myself (and those who agree). I'll happily let it drop now. 

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1 hour ago, Godless said:

I never got the impression that anyone was trying to force him to stop using his terminology. It seemed more like people were trying to make it clear to him that such terms make it hard to take him seriously, which is something I have to agree with. He's not trying to offend, and I sincerely doubt that many people are actually offended by his linguistic quirks. It seems more a matter of distraction than offense, something which leaves people annoyed and agitated. Personally, I find it agitating when I'm reading something and have to take a few seconds to process an unnecessary made-up word. It distracts me from the rest of the message being conveyed and hampers my ability to take it seriously. If he wants to continue using that terminology, that's absolutely his choice, but it needs to be understood that there are those here to who don't like it and may be a little curt in their responses as a result.

I'm not certain that is true.  I got the impression that, while not "offended", they were "offended".  That his terminology was "silly" was confirmed by his own admission.  Heaven help us if we're not allowed to be silly on this board.  And I don't see why he can't be taken seriously when he uses the occasional silly terminology to lighten the conversation.  What?  No one else uses silly words from time to time?  I'd better delete my list of insults that I gave Vort.

That it takes a moment for you to process is understandable.  But that was not the gist of what people were complaining about.  And I don't see why that alone would cause people to be curt in their responses.  I myself made a comment about a certain individual's spelling prowess.  And, yes, it was distracting -- which is why I made the comment.  But to be curt to the point where I'd "expect" someone to change their ways around me to garner my respect or attention would be a little arrogant.

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4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

to be curt to the point where I'd "expect" someone to change their ways around me to garner my respect or attention would be a little arrogant.

A "little arrogant"?

Lehi

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Guest LiterateParakeet
1 hour ago, LeSellers said:

Why is it necessary to single me out?

Lehi

You are right to ask and I sincerely apologize.  My explanation for that was in the post that got eaten by the forum termites.  I forgot to re-explain when I rewrote and severely truncated my post.

I also apologize for singling you out.  The reason I did it was because it seems to me that the people who ask you to stop are being inconsistent (apologies to them too).  Inconsistency is something we all fall victim to at times, I believe it's part of the natural man that we need to overcome.  For example, I know that both sugar and milk are detrimental to my body, but I continue to consume them so my actions are inconsistent.  I wanted to use that inconsistency to make a point about political correctness.

There's a video that my conservative friends on Facebook have been sharing. They think it's hilarious.  I don't.  It's not so funny when you are the one who is annoyed (or hurt) by someone else's behavior.  I felt that perhaps their frustration with you could help them see the other side of this debate.  And just to be clear, I disagree with both sides (which is sure to win me many friends. Oops.) 

Here's the video (though I'm asking myself as I post...am I being inconsistent in using a video I disagree with to make my point....hmmm...life is complicated.)

https://metavideos.com/video/4513198/nothing-happens-when-youre-offended

Sorry for bringing that all up again, I also used it because I didn't want to derail the conversation by using another example, but this is still a derail, so... 

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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2 hours ago, LeSellers said:

Why is it necessary to single me out?

Lehi

Probably because I singled you out earlier. Or rather, the response to your phrase turning. I thought it relevant given the theme of this thread.

Others have apologized, but I won't. The tacit question has since been spoken aloud and engaged. If it was anyone else on the forum I would consider apologizing for not giving you fair warning, but I figure you don't give a flying rip.

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