Project Doctrine of Christ Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Carborendum said: Why are you reacting like that? I was merely defending you from accusers based on what I FEAR others might impugn on your character. If you were sincere, I humbly and sincerely apologize. I was wrong to assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShorty Posted March 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Since this got resurrected this week, and Spackman posted an essay that I think fits into the topic, I will add it here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/benjaminthescribe/2018/03/on-the-nature-of-prophetic-knowledge-with-a-side-helping-of-evolution/ Just_A_Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, MrShorty said: Since this got resurrected this week, and Spackman posted an essay that I think fits into the topic, I will add it here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/benjaminthescribe/2018/03/on-the-nature-of-prophetic-knowledge-with-a-side-helping-of-evolution/ I agree with Spackman mostly. But I think his suggestion that prophets may advocate for a set of divinely-questionable ethics/human behavior (as opposed to merely acknowledging their existence in broader society and choosing to work within the constraints those social standards impose) is potentially somewhat problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 2 hours ago, MrShorty said: Since this got resurrected this week, and Spackman posted an essay that I think fits into the topic, I will add it here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/benjaminthescribe/2018/03/on-the-nature-of-prophetic-knowledge-with-a-side-helping-of-evolution/ 1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said: I agree with Spackman mostly. But I think his suggestion that prophets may advocate for a set of divinely-questionable ethics/human behavior (as opposed to merely acknowledging their existence in broader society and choosing to work within the constraints those social standards impose) is potentially somewhat problematic. I have a different perspective. I technically agreed with most of what he writes, but I think the ultimate point is thoroughly missed. The discussion of prophetic infallibility isn't meaningful. Is our faith in the prophets? No. Our faith is in, and should be, the reality that God can do his work. God, as he proclaims, does His work through prophets. That's His means. He says so. We either trust Him or we don't. God will guide us according to His will, in His time, in His way, but will do so through His servant the prophets. Not through some stranger on the internet. Midwest LDS and MrShorty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSG Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: I have a different perspective. Midwest LDS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 Maybe someone has already brought this up but I haven't read through the entire thread, so apologies if this has already been said. There are some things that Joseph Smith did and said: 1. Tried to show others that he was just a man by dressing up in dirty clothes when greeting converted saints who came to Ohio to be with the other saints. His point was to help others see that if they had preconceived notions about what a prophet was supposed to look like, they would be better served by seeing that prophets are human. 2. A prophet is only a prophet when he speaks prophetically or in the name of Christ. Otherwise, he's just a man. That's not to say that his wisdom is not true. Speaking as a man, he likely has more truth and wisdom than the average, wise fellow. 3. It is not enough to rely on the testimony of others. At some point, every member of the church must gain a testimony about the truth of the gospel for themselves. I take this to mean that we don't have to question or get a testimony of everything that comes from church leaders, no. Rather, it means that faith in our leaders' words alone is not enough and can lead to going astray because we do not have a testimony of the truth for ourselves. For example, I know without a doubt that the Book of Mormon is true. I do not rely on anyone else's testimony to that fact. Because I have that testimony, I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that the church is true and that Jesus is the Christ. Therefore, He leads this church and as such, our church leaders do His will and administer His gospel. They will not lead us astray because He said He won't allow it. So, I have no need to question what they say in Christ's name. Now, there are leaders who have done bad things and they have been dealt with accordingly (disfellowshipped, excommunicated, etc), so they won't lead the saints away. In these cases, each of us are given the Light of Christ, the gift of the Holy Ghost and the gift of discernment to know when we are hearing truth or not. In our human weakness, we may not fully understand truths when we hear them, so we question what we hear. In these cases, our faith should lead us to humbly seek for the Lord's witness that what we have heard is true. If we are not humble, we will prop ourselves up with pride and will rely solely upon our own interpretation of things, which the Spirit cannot penetrate. The gift of discernment, which each of us is entitled to, can help us know if we are hearing the opinions of our church leaders or the doctrine and will of the Lord. Our degree of faith and testimony that Jesus Christ leads this church through His prophets/our church leaders will determine the degree of our acceptance of the truths we hear from them. The Folk Prophet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Osborn Posted March 25, 2018 Report Share Posted March 25, 2018 3 hours ago, NightSG said: How many times...sheesh...how many times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegriffith Posted April 1, 2018 Report Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) On 3/19/2018 at 5:46 AM, truthseaker said: Even Jesus himself made failed prophecies, so if the saviour himself can be wrong about something then surely we must give the prophets some wiggle room! “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30) “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28) I do not think that Jesus uttered any false prophecies. Rather, I think the wording of the prophecies was changed during the course of numerous translations over time. It is also entirely possible that some of the Lord's disciples misinterpreted his statements. Edited April 1, 2018 by mikegriffith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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