Update about wife who left church.


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Some of you may remember a previous thread I started over six months ago about my wife who had left the church.  In my last reply to that thread I mentioned that I had begged for six months to try and make it work.  She granted that request and almost six months to the day she told me she had filed for divorce.  We are now going through that process. 

 

On Thanksgiving I discovered she has a relationship with a guy that has been going on for at least a month.  She doesn't know that I know and I can only imagine she thinks she is pretty clever with her attemps to cover her tracks.  This makes her behaviour over the last month or so much more understandable.

 

We both still live in the marital home with our kids although she has asked me to leave several times.  My lawyer has advised me to not go anywhere.  My only concern about staying in the home is that our kids don't know we are getting divorced yet.  She doesn't want to tell them till the week before we separate and I have let her know that I won't be going anywhere until the process is finished or very nearly finished.   Our interaction is pretty much reduced to talking about schedules of who is taking care of the kids.  There is an occaisional negative interaction but those are probably less now than before her obligatory six months was up. 

 

After she filed her initial petition which basically asked for all our assets and full custody of the kids, she and I talked and agreed to how to split things.  I told her what I wanted and she agreed to it.  When she talked to her lawyer she came back and said it wouldn't work. Not enough for her even though her portion was higher than mine.   We talked again and agreed on something new but really it was just everything she was getting before plus some additional from me.  She talked to her lawyer and said it wouldn't work.   Still not enough.   Wash, rinse, repeat twice more.

 

Long story short, after finding out about this relationship my view of what is happening has completely turned around.  I didn't think what she is doing was possible.  Who is this person?    I basically backed out of everything I had agreed to and am now requiring we do mediation.  We have pretty decent assets with no debt, not even a mortgage on our home.  Before this I was agreeing to a 40/60 split on assets with her portion being the 60.  I also agreed to alimony although my lawyer was saying it probably wasn't necessary because of our assets and other considerations.

 

Her response to my requiring mediation?  Crying and trying to make me feel guilty for what will probably be a far less favorable out come financially for her.  Who knows, it may be worse for me.  At this point I just want someone else to work it out and if a mediator gives me more or less I won't feel bad about it. 

 

I guess my whole point is that I need the posters on this forum  to cool me down about this relationship she has going.  I have been talking to other people and posting in forums like this is really just therapy for me to get through it.  The other night I had a dream that I went UFC on her boyfriend with some ground and pound.  While that was increadibly satisfying in the dream it doesn't do much in my waking hours and I obviously don't want something like that to happen in real life.  Hope I don't run into this guy somewhere.  Yeah I know who he is.   

Edited by 000Zero000
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Be sure you tell your lawyer about her relationship, if it gets ugly (which is sounds like it might) it can affect the proceedings and help prevent you from getting steamrolled, and the bad end of the deal (which is typical for men).

Take a deep breath, don't do anything that ultimately is likely to hurt your kids.

Edited by Crypto
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Zero,

 

My condolences on you having to go through something like this. She truly does not understand the problems she is causing or if she does, does not care in the least bit. 5 kids, the oldest is 11 and new boyfriend is going to support her . . . lol that is a good one.

 

She has broken her vow with you and most importantly with God, one day she will stand accountable for her sins, the destruction of her family.  When that day comes, it will be very painful for her.  Only you can know in your heart and through God's peace whether you have done everything possible and can have a clean conscience.  From what you have written, you are definitely on that path.

 

God's grace is sufficient for us all, even her.  

 

Having said that, however at this point, protect yourself to the maximum extent possible. Protect your house, your children and your future livelihood. Don't do something stupid now that you will regret 5 years down the road when you want to get married again.

------

This country's laws are messed up with regards to divorce; and it is probably one of the reasons why marriage rates have fallen quite dramatically.  Without being crude, men can have many partners without the very real affects of the laws destroying them. 

 

Why get married? Get married have 5 kids, wives goes off the deep end commits adultery. She can go have as many partners as possible yet will most likely get custody, raise her kids in a bad environment all the while getting 40% of the man's income.  

 

Yet if the courts were harsh on adultery and at-fault divorces, she would get nothing, husband would get all his money and he could afford a nanny.  Stupid, stupid laws and judges.

 

I love my wife and I can't ever imagine a split-up, but one of the wisest things I did at the beginning of our marriage was to keep finances separate. House, car, etc. my name. There is no good reason to keep it in both names. If I die, it gets inherited. If an asteroid hits the earth and things go wacky-while I'll still pay it's an extra measure and an extra hoop someone has to go through to extract my hard earned money from me.

Edited by yjacket
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You've been talking divorce (at least she has) for a year. You have come to agreements on a settlement of divorce. Her wishes were to be out of the relationship six months ago. You postponed it. Did you think her world would stop spinning for you?  You need to cut the cord and leave. You have no say over the boyfriend.

 

That isn't what you wanted to hear. You wanted someone to validate you. Fact is you are trying to control something you lost a long time ago. You conceded the loss but still hang on.

 

Move on.

 

As for the wait until you leave to tell the kids...my parents did that. It had a bandaid rip effect. It was done and over and everyone moved on. I think it was best. You don't need to torture your kids or end up with them being manipulated in the wheel and deal you seem content on carrying on.

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Stay calm and reasonable.

 

Protect yourself.  Get physical evidence.  Hire a private investigator.  Photographs.  Phone records.  Record all your phone calls with her.  Carry a recorder with you.  The "relationship" with her boyfriend -- verify if it is sexual or if it is just early date-like behavior.  It makes a difference to the courts if it only happened during that six month period.  A court may look at that period as a preliminary separation condition even if you were not separated.

 

Make sure the lawyer tells you all that you are entitled to under the laws and practices of your state.  Some states don't consider adultery as sufficient cause to change divorce outcome.

 

Set rules for you and your kids.  Make sure you can do everything to keep you and your kids together as a family in spirit and heart even if there is shared custody.

 

Then be prepared for a major depression to hit you and your kids.  Make as many of your loved ones aware so they can support you emotionally.

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I've said this here before, but experts say that psychologically it takes about 5 years to recover from a divorce--*but*, the petitioning party is also the equivalent of three years into this process already. One party is ready to devour the carcass, while the other party emotionally can't do much more than lick their wounds. The problem is exacerbated when the petitioning party has a lawyer who's just putting dollar signs into her eyes. Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do about that except to make sure you have a good lawyer, trust his judgment, and push back against your wife's manipulation.

And, adultery may not be grounds for a favorable custody/child support arrangement or property division, but depending in your state it could well shatter her alimony claim. Carborundum speaks wisdom--document everything, and get a PI.

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My suggestion (and I am no lawyer, so you should probably talk with him): Propose a division of assets as you did. When she refuses, propose another division of assets more in your favor. If/when she refuses again, propose another division of assets even more in your favor. Whatever you do, do not back down, ever. If you do not hold your ground, she will happily take you to the cleaners, and don't deceive yourself that she will feel bad about it some day. She will not.

 

Western men, especially Mormon men, are taught to be deferential and sacrificing to their women. Your situation at present is a very bad time to be acting that script. For the time being, throw it out. She is not "your woman"; she is an adversary, and this is a dogfight. You must treat her as such. You can be sure she will be treating you as such.

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Whatever you do, do not back down, ever. If you do not hold your ground, she will happily take you to the cleaners, and don't deceive yourself that she will feel bad about it some day. She will not.

 

Yeap.  The time for reconciliation and self-sacrifice was in the 6-month period but not now. She has shown by her actions that your role in this "marriage" is simply a money tree.

 

This is going to be hard to take but . . .

 

You told us earlier how she expected as part of your marriage to get 50% of your income. She certainly wasn't the one earning the money-you were.  She expected to be on some part of welfare system, where you provide all the money and she gets to do whatever she wants to without regard to any responsibilities. If she has the time to carry on an affair with 5 small children at home she certainly isn't caring about her responsibilities as a wife and mother.

 

She has demonstrated by word and deed that all you are to her is a money tree-all she sees when she looks at you is dollar signs. And she will do whatever she can to get a free ride from you for the next 15+ years.

 

Your goal now is to maximize to the extent possible keeping the amount of assets that you have worked so very hard for and to minimize what she gets.  Hold your ground, go for blood. It is really sad this is what it has come to; but with the screwed up laws in this country if you do not it will affect you for the rest of your life. 60/40 with you being the 40?  She hasn't worked a day in your marriage and she gets 60% . . . on what planet does she think this is? More like 75/25, with you being the 75%.

 

And while it is hard to hear now, when the dust has settled, and your life is somewhat stable again and if you keep doing what is right you'll meet a wonderful woman. When that time comes, you'll want as much financial resources to support her rather than someone who has no regard for their marital vows or children.

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Then be prepared for a major depression to hit you and your kids.  Make as many of your loved ones aware so they can support you emotionally.

 

The kids are the worst; they don't understand anything.  All they know is that they came from both mom and dad. For mom and dad to split is like saying to them part of them isn't good.

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My suggestion (and I am no lawyer, so you should probably talk with him): Propose a division of assets as you did. When she refuses, propose another division of assets more in your favor. If/when she refuses again, propose another division of assets even more in your favor. Whatever you do, do not back down, ever. If you do not hold your ground, she will happily take you to the cleaners, and don't deceive yourself that she will feel bad about it some day. She will not.

 

Western men, especially Mormon men, are taught to be deferential and sacrificing to their women. Your situation at present is a very bad time to be acting that script. For the time being, throw it out. She is not "your woman"; she is an adversary, and this is a dogfight. You must treat her as such. You can be sure she will be treating you as such.

Vort,  You are exactly right about my initial thought process with regards to being deferential and sacrificing.  Before I found out about this relationship I was trying to make sure that she wouldn't have to suffer to much financially.  The amazing thing is that at every concession I made she just wanted more.  I was living under the assumption that while she didn't wish to have a relationship with me that she still cared about me and the kids and that she would try to work to make this as good for everybody as it could be.  Now I see it differently.

 

My parents are telling me that I need to stop trying to make sure that she doesn't suffer when this is all said and done.  I think finding out about this relationship has given me what I need to make that happen.

 

I'm trying to just let this go.  Most everybody is telling me it won't make a difference with divorce proceedings that she has started this relationship.   I'm not going to pursue it any further.    

 

Also, thanks for the comments.  Even the person who said I was torturing my kids with the wheel and deal I was content with carrying on (not even close to what I have been doing by the way)  gave me a chance to stop and think about whether what was said was true. 

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Vort,  You are exactly right about my initial thought process with regards to being deferential and sacrificing.  Before I found out about this relationship I was trying to make sure that she wouldn't have to suffer to much financially.  The amazing thing is that at every concession I made she just wanted more.  I was living under the assumption that while she didn't wish to have a relationship with me that she still cared about me and the kids and that she would try to work to make this as good for everybody as it could be.  Now I see it differently.

 

 

Remember: after things are settled in court, you can always give more if you choose.  But if you give too much during court, you can never go back on it.

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Zero, so sorry you had to go through this.

 

My advice:

Concentrate all your efforts for the well-being of your 5 children and make decisions accordingly.

 

For example:

1.)  Fight for full custody because it is better for them to be living with you than living with a self-serving mother and her flaky boyfriend.

2.)  Fight for 100% of the assets because you need to have all the money to support your children.

 

This is not the time to be a turtle and hide in your shell until the storm passes.  Your children need you.

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Also, thanks for the comments.  Even the person who said I was torturing my kids with the wheel and deal I was content with carrying on (not even close to what I have been doing by the way)  gave me a chance to stop and think about whether what was said was true. 

I wasn't accusing you of wheeling and dealing now. I am saying that is what it would become if you separate now and then work out the divorce.

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I wasn't accusing you of wheeling and dealing now. I am saying that is what it would become if you separate now and then work out the divorce.

Sorry pkstpaul, I misunderstood what you were saying.  It is good to think about both ways though and the other way did give me pause to think about whether I was harming my kids to satisfy my own ego or a spiteful attitude.   I'm trying to avoid that at all costs.

 

I don't want to blow this up.  Right now we have agreed to a 50/50 split on custody of the kids.  From our first "agreement" that has never changed.  I am hoping that with mediation that situation won't change.   It's a risk. 

 

Luckily for me in our six month "try to make it work period" a number of things happened in my favor.  First, a law went into effect in Uah that was intended to equalize or at least decrease the inequality related to custody of children.  The new law attempts to give men a greater percentage with regards to custody.  Sorry I can't explain it very well. 

 

Second, I lost my job.  That may not seem like a good thing but it was better that it happened when it did.  After losing my job she and I decided it would be a good idea for me to go back to school to get that ever elusive degree.  I had been telling her for a while that if I ever lost my job that my pay at a new place of employement would be 20 to 40 percent lower than I was making.  The good thing about this is that it makes it more difficult to impute my wages at my last pay scale.  Imagine what would have happened if we had divorced back then and then I lost my high paying job that took 10 years to work up to.  

 

Third, we sold the remaining rental properties we owned.  This put a sizable amount of money in our bank account and is what made it possible for me to go back to school without needing to work.  Ironically enough, it is also a major reason she feels like she can divorce me.  She has stated that if we didn't have the assets we have that she would be "trapped" in a marriage to me. 

 

Fourth, my parents inherited my grandmother's home after her death.   This will allow them to be in Utah for six months of each year.  My mom has already asked if she can be daycare for the kids when she is here and it is my week to have the kids. 

 

Anyway, just me trying to put a positive spin on an absolutely terrible year.  Imagine the Christmas card I'll send out.

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I'm trying to just let this go.  Most everybody is telling me it won't make a difference with divorce proceedings that she has started this relationship.   I'm not going to pursue it any further.    

 

Spend real $$$ on a really good Attorney.  Don't listen to everybody.  Don't pursue/not pursue anything unless your Attorney instructs you to do so.  Protect your assets and your rights.  

 

I would give your wife the same advice.....

 

since she clearly doesn't want to be amicable, then you have to let it not be amicable.....

Edited by mdfxdb
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My lawyer is almost double hers per hour and the firm cators to men going through divorce. She freaked out when she saw the retainer hit our account. Her lawyer is the youngest and cheapest one at the firm he works for. My lawyer has worked with that firm many times and didnt know who he was. Interestingly enough my father in law recomended the firm I am using as it is who he used when he divorced my mother in law a year or so ago.

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My brother is going through very similar, except he left the church with her a couple of years ago. He maintained his ability to be a good and moral person, she didn't. Now she's running around on him and what started as an amicable divorce gets increasingly uglier. It's sad, especially with five kids in the crosshairs. 

 

My brother is doing everything he can to provide his kids with stability and love, and we're doing our best to help him in that. You sound like you're doing the same. Kudos for that.

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Honestly, if I had left the church it would have prolonged our marriage but Im sure the result would have been the same after a couple of years. You dont know how hard she worked me over for those six months. The last 'date' we went on a couple of weeks before she filed was with another couple where the husband had left the church and the wife was close. I thought we were just going out to dinner with some people in a similar situation to us and had made it clear I didnt want any more dinners with people where everybody shared their deconversion story. This had already happened three or four times previously. As soon as we sat down with this couple at the restraunt she asked the man what his experience was leaving the Church. I couldnt believe it. I spent the next 30 minutes listening to this guy ramble on and just when he finished she looked at his wife and asked her what her experience was. At this point I nudged her under the table so she would look at me to see I was not enjoying what was happening. The wife talked for about two minutes then the husband took over again for twenty more minutes. When we left the restraunt I was angry about what had just happened. When I let her know that I felt it wasnt right to do that to me she could only focus on the nudge I gave . She said she didnt mean for the conversation to go the way it did and when I asked her why she she asked the question and why she didnt stop it she could only say she was trying to get to know them better and didnt want to be rude by stopping it. Before that dinner was the last time we had physical contact. I realized then that she was never going to be ok with me being a member of the church and it was just a few weeks later that she filed for divorce. Interestingly enough, a few days after coming to that realization I was thinking about the ramifications of my not leaving the Church with regards to our marriage and knew divorce was probably coming soon. While thinking about this I knew I had a decision to make. I could backtrack on my position that what she did was wrong and smooth things over or I could hold my ground that the constant barrage of trying to get me to leave the church was not ok. I knew that holding my ground would lead to divorce but I had the distinct thought that that was what I was supposed to do and that I would be ok. There have been a handful of pivotal points in my life when I knew exactly what the outcome of a decision would be and I was left to make that decision for myself. One other time that comes to mind was when she and I were dating. I dont remember many of our dates but I do remember one specifically where I knew that if we continued dating beyond that point that we would get married. It was still early in our relationship so it wouldnt have been hard to break it off but I chose to continue. Anyway sorry for the ramble and no paragraphs. Like I said this is very therapeutic for me.

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My lawyer is almost double hers per hour and the firm cators to men going through divorce. She freaked out when she saw the retainer hit our account. Her lawyer is the youngest and cheapest one at the firm he works for. My lawyer has worked with that firm many times and didnt know who he was. Interestingly enough my father in law recomended the firm I am using as it is who he used when he divorced my mother in law a year or so ago.

I don't like to use derogatory terms, but everything points to a money-grubbing . . . person . . . . This behavior is typical of someone who has no desire to to the right thing all they see is getting as much as they can for as little as they can.

 

Your house is paid for-that speaks to someone who either has lived very frugally, made lots of money, or done both.

 

This is not advice, and I don't know what the law says, but if it were me.  I'd take all my bank accounts, stocks etc. I'd cash them out and I'd buy gold in cash. The only thing that is traceable is the cash-out.  You can sue me, garnish my wages, etc., but the gold is untraceable-ain't getting it. I can hold a lot of value in very little space with it. If they knew I'd bought metals-I'd level my backyard, I'd put the amount that I decide she should get in the backyard for her to find good and deep. I would hand her a shovel to my backyard and say

 

"You want it, dig for it; it's a perfect metaphor for you". 

 

Yes, I am ruthless at protecting what's mine :-). And yes I really would do that.

Edited by yjacket
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Anyway sorry for the ramble and no paragraphs. Like I said this is very therapeutic for me.

 

I believe it was President Monson who said a long time ago that the man was the head of the household and the woman the heart of the household. Losing your heart or about to lose your heart (whether through death or divorce) is one of the most gut-wrenching, horrible experiences one can ever possibly face in this lifetime. Sadness, depression, lack of will are all things that will follow and it is okay-it is part of the natural human grieving process.

 

While you will lose your heart, never forget you are the head and must do all you can to protect your household (which includes you and your children).

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