Update about wife who left church.

[NightSG]

Spend real $$$ on a really good Attorney. 

 

Forget the good attorney.  You want one that Lucifer goes to for advice on how to be more evil.  If Bibles don't burst into flame in his presence, you need a meaner lawyer.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

Sorry you have to go through this, I hope in the long run it leads to something better.

 

As far as the assets go, IMHO since she went and found herself some other guy, he can take care of her.  Get the best deal for yourself you can.

[NightSG]

Emptying accounts could get him in trouble legally in many states.

 

Talk to your lawyer before doing anything.

 

But do keep a close watch on them; it's a common tactic to grab half the balance, then try for the other half on the settlement.  If caught, it's generally "oops, I forgot I already did that."  If not caught, she walks with 3/4 of the money instead of half.  

[000Zero000]

But do keep a close watch on them; it's a common tactic to grab half the balance, then try for the other half on the settlement.  If caught, it's generally "oops, I forgot I already did that."  If not caught, she walks with 3/4 of the money instead of half. 

She already kind of tried to do this.  When she filed she started moving money around in our regular accounts.  I called her on it immediatly. 

 

I mentioned in a previous post in this thread how we sold some rental properties during our six month make it work.  Well, we agreed to set up a high yield savings account to put that in and like an idiot I didn't make sure that my name was on the account too when she set it up.  When she filed her petition for divorce she claimed it was all hers and the proof was that the account was only in her name.  My lawyer has already assured me that would never stand up in court if we get that far.  It does however show how naive I was about our situation.  I'm seeing a lot of things now that I didn't see before.

[Jane_Doe]

She already kind of tried to do this.  When she filed she started moving money around in our regular accounts.  I called her on it immediatly. 

 

I mentioned in a previous post in this thread how we sold some rental properties during our six month make it work.  Well, we agreed to set up a high yield savings account to put that in and like an idiot I didn't make sure that my name was on the account too when she set it up.  When she filed her petition for divorce she claimed it was all hers and the proof was that the account was only in her name.  My lawyer has already assured me that would never stand up in court if we get that far.  It does however show how naive I was about our situation.  I'm seeing a lot of things now that I didn't see before.

 

Morale of the story: Listen to your lawyer.

[000Zero000]

So my younger brother started a new job this week.  Lo and behold he is working for the same company that this guy my wife has been seeing works for.   It is a fairly large company so hopefully their won't be any cross over.   Previous to this knowledge my brother submitted my resume to the company as well.   Hopefully they don't call me but if they do I'm going to have to respectfully decline.  Cross that job off as a possibility.

[Vort]

Lo and behold

 

Apropos of this phrase, and completely off-topic: "Lo", which is used in scripture as well as this expression (but nowhere else in modern English that I can think of), comes from the Middle English word loke, meaning "look". So "lo and behold" means, literally, "Look and see". It is in the imperative mood, of course, as if you are urging someone to look and see. But we don't really use it as anything more than an expression of wonderment -- usually when something surprising happens that, in retrospect, might have been expected.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.

[Guest]

Vort, our lovable resident pedant. 

[mrmarklin]

There is no such thing as a friendly divorce. Don't even think about giving her one more nickel that she is entitled to. No alimony unless mandated.

Here in PRK, all this is done using charts for what is "fair". You were right in seeking mediation. Of course, you have an attorney, correct?

[000Zero000]

There is no such thing as a friendly divorce. Don't even think about giving her one more nickel that she is entitled to. No alimony unless mandated.

Here in PRK, all this is done using charts for what is "fair". You were right in seeking mediation. Of course, you have an attorney, correct?

Yes, I have an attorney.  I had hoped that she and I could work this out without having to have our attorneys do all the talking but I realize now that I was being foolish.  

 

She was actively looking for a job for the last couple of weeks but I noticed that after I said I wanted to do mediation that all stopped.  I think when she was getting everything she wanted from me she was ok with getting a job because she would have what she needed and then some.  Now that I am asking that we do mediation she isn't going to get a job because it would prove she could get a job.  Granted, that job wouldn't pay much.   

 

I'm sticking to my plan.  Mediation whether it hurts or harms my previous position.  It's the only way to be sure I'm not being taken.

[JojoBag]

Why cool down about her cheating on you?  My first wife cheated on me two times, got pregnant by the other guy, and was finally excommunicated for adultery.  Wife after that cheated on me, got pregnant by the other guy and was disfellowshipped.  My feeling is that it's been going on a lot longer than one month.  Personally, I wouldn't give her any more than what is fair for both of you.  She made her bed; now let her sleep in it.

[000Zero000]

Why cool down about her cheating on you?  My first wife cheated on me two times, got pregnant by the other guy, and was finally excommunicated for adultery.  Wife after that cheated on me, got pregnant by the other guy and was disfellowshipped.  My feeling is that it's been going on a lot longer than one month.  Personally, I wouldn't give her any more than what is fair for both of you.  She made her bed; now let her sleep in it.

 

Jojo, I want to cool down about it because when I think about it, it consumes me.  I have important decisions to make and I really just need to move past this if I can.  Trust me, at this point my goodwill has been spent with regards to giving her anything beyond what the law requires.

[JojoBag]

Jojo, I want to cool down about it because when I think about it, it consumes me.  I have important decisions to make and I really just need to move past this if I can.  Trust me, at this point my goodwill has been spent with regards to giving her anything beyond what the law requires.

 

OK, I can truly understand this.  You've got kids to think about.  In my situation, my second ex has consistently tried to cause me trouble even four years after the divorce.  Sometimes the ex won't let things cool down.  I've simply refused to speak to her ever on any subject.  If she has something to tell me, she must go through one of my kids, who are all grown.  This approach finally eliminated most of her schemes.

 

Moving past a cheating spouse is important and your approach will help you in healing.  If you don't heal, you'll  bring a lot of baggage into any future relationship.  What helped me was changing my perspective on a number of things.  I look at things differently now about many aspects of my life. 

[priesthoodpower]

my best of wishes for you zero,

 

I am surprised no one said anything about the Lawyers making out the best on this divorce. They will force you guys to keep dragging this thing on while their pockets are getting fatter.

[000Zero000]

my best of wishes for you zero,

 

I am surprised no one said anything about the Lawyers making out the best on this divorce. They will force you guys to keep dragging this thing on while their pockets are getting fatter.

My wife and I talked about this today.  Her lawyer told her that my lawyer is a "biller".   We talked about how we are buying them new boats.  Ha ha.

 

Another update, I also let her know that I knew about her relationship today.   She denied it until I presented information about it that I could only know if I actually knew.  I know that was probably a mistake but I don't care.  She was a little taken back that I knew the guys name and assumes that one of her friends must have betrayed this information to me.

 

She is meeting with her lawyer tomorrow and assures me that she is going to instruct him to do what we talked about and not come back with the "It isn't enough" reply.    

 

If this in fact happens I would count it as a win.  Asset division would be 35% to 65% with her being the 65%.  There would not be alimony.  Child custody would be 50/50 both legal and physical.  That is it in it's simplest form.  While the asset division seems to be lopsided the no alimony and child custody is huge for me.

 

It was intersting when I put the assets on paper for her today that she said she hadn't done any of the math regarding assets.  She was just doing what her lawyer said to do.   I asked her to please become a little more involved in her divorce.

[yjacket]

If this in fact happens I would count it as a win.  Asset division would be 35% to 65% with her being the 65%.  There would not be alimony.  Child custody would be 50/50 both legal and physical.  That is it in it's simplest form.  While the asset division seems to be lopsided the no alimony and child custody is huge for me.

 

It was intersting when I put the assets on paper for her today that she said she hadn't done any of the math regarding assets.  She was just doing what her lawyer said to do.   I asked her to please become a little more involved in her divorce.

 

I'm going to try and be kind here; but first . . .  you've got to get mad!!

 

First you told us it was a 60/40 split with her being the 60. Now it's 35/65 with her being the 65.

 

She's a lying, cheating, no good . .. .and you are just rolling over and taking it. With her adultery, I don't believe there is any way the judge would award alimony, so forget having to pay more just to make sure she doesn't get alimony.  Unless there is ample reason for you to not have contact with the kids, the judge will give 50/50, legal and physical.

 

She is and has been playing you like a fiddle. Only doing what her lawyer is telling her (right . . .that's a good lie).  The conversation probably went like this her: "lawyer, get me as much as you can".  Lawyer: " Tell him its a 35/65 split". Her: "I'm only doing what my lawyer said".

 

She has most likely walked all over you most of your marriage; you got to get a spine. And at this point, you know without a doubt she can not be trusted. 

 

Unless there is something you're not saying 50/50 asset split, 50/50 custody and you paying child support is way more than your fair share. Anything less favorable for you and you are getting shafted.

 

If your lawyer advises on accepting the 35/65, I need to get his name-so I'll make sure no one I know ever hires him!!! 

Edited December 8, 2015 by yjacket

[Fran]

Zero, so sorry you had to go through this.

 

My advice:

Concentrate all your efforts for the well-being of your 5 children and make decisions accordingly.

 

For example:

1.)  Fight for full custody because it is better for them to be living with you than living with a self-serving mother and her flaky boyfriend.

2.)  Fight for 100% of the assets because you need to have all the money to support your children.

 

This is not the time to be a turtle and hide in your shell until the storm passes.  Your children need you.

 

 

Well we do not know this woman we can't judge if she's a self serving mother or if she's a relationship with a flaky bf ! 

And if you agree that the parent with custody gets 100% of the assets then it means that if it's her she gets it all and Zero gets nothing !

 

Nobody here can really give advices like that, the best is mediation and why not a therapist if it's too hard to go through this alone.

 

My best advice : don't get advice from strangers and people who are too involved (family and friends), get advice from professionnals ! what you can get though is support from your relatives.

 

Divorces end badly only when people put themselves first and children last. So the best would be to talk to the children prepare them for the split (not wait last minute), and ask them what they'd like to do. 

 

Good luck I know too well what's it's like ! 

[000Zero000]

yjacket, I am getting almost everything I asked for initially.  I am willing to concede a small portion if we can be finished with this.  I am asking for what I feel is necessary to provide a home for my children that meets certain requirements.  I don't need anything else and I am not going to fight for more than I feel I need.  The small portion I conceded was what we would have paid our lawyers for a years worth of legal battles fighting over the small portion.  I can either give it to the lawyers or I can give it to her.  

 

This may seem spineless to some.  I'm okay with that.  I don't hate her.   Her actions and choices will bring her more than enough grief, I don't need to be a part of that.   The arrangement we have now will still require her to struggle in signficant ways.  As some other posters pointed out, if I want to help her then, out of my own choice and not forced by law, I can.   It is likely I will.  

 

I am foolish to hope that what she says will happen tomorrow actually will.  I sent an email to my lawyer saying that if what we had talked about showed up in her response on Wednesday that I would sign off on it.  I copied her on that email and she forwarded the email to her lawyer.   I guess we will see. 

[yjacket]

Zero,

 

You've got to do what you feel is in your best interest. Maybe part of this deal is that you get the house; which could be worth the hassle of selling it and splitting up the proceeds. 

 

I'm okay with that.  I don't hate her.   Her actions and choices will bring her more than enough grief, I don't need to be a part of that.   

I think you still are in love with her; which is okay as long as if that is true you recognize it and realize that it may be clouding your judgement.  

 

Like it or not, you will be a part of her actions and choices for the next ~18 years. If part of what you got in consideration for the 35% was stipulations on how the children are to be raised then that might be good leverage.

 

50/50 custody, but during her 50% time you know she will be filling the kids full of anti messages. If part of the agreement is she can't teach anti to the kids and it is enforceable by law; then yeah I'd consider that a fair trade for the money.

 

Good luck, I'm sorry to see this happen to you. 

[yjacket]

Well we do not know this woman we can't judge if she's a self serving mother or if she's a relationship with a flaky bf ! 

 

Unfortunately, IMO a self-serving mother. While married she didn't work yet insisted that she deserved 50% of all take-home pay from her husband to spend as she wished. With that 50% she would go out with her "friends"; this is a mother who has 5 kids under the age of 11.  Anybody who has raised kids knows that when you've got small children, you really don't have "friends" except for play-date moms! Her "friends" consisted of other anti-mormon individuals.  When her husband suggested they do other types of dates-she scoffed at it.

 

Rather than do her motherly job (just like her husband has a job)-she relegated her motherly caretaking duties to her husband while she was out with "friends" drinking, having a good time, etc. And these weren't just a couple of times a month outings, more like a couple of times a week.

 

During these outings she found a "friend" who became her paramour and she has been cheating how her husband for some time now.

 

You decide if those actions are just b/c of some flaky boyfriend (she's cheating for pete's sake) or actions of someone who really doesn't care much about her own responsibilities and just wants a free ride.

[NightSG]

I would also strongly recommend making sure there's some language in the custody agreement that prohibits her from having the kids in a house with any non-family male outside of 7AM-10PM.  You would probably have to have the same restriction regarding non-family females, but it's mainly to keep her from taking them and shacking up with the boyfriend, or having him stay over while she has the kids, and may result in you getting a lot more time with them if she decides she'd rather party or have him sleep over.

 

(Mine technically says 8AM-9PM, but in talking to the judge, he's stated he would never enforce it if I had a date stay until 10 to finish watching a movie, or come in for breakfast when giving me a ride to work at 7:30AM; only if she actually stayed the night in the house.  Both of the above situations arose with a woman I dated shortly after the divorce, so it's worth asking and/or adjusting the times.  I'd say having the restricted time be midnight-6AM is perfectly reasonable, covers any overnight guest, and is very difficult to write off as "just lost track of time."  You can name specific people it won't apply to if there's a distant cousin she treats as close family, for example.)

 

If it results in you having them significantly more than half the time, document that to death, and you might be able to go back to court to have the custody adjusted to match the reality, (meaning she can't change her mind and go back to 50/50) and possibly get some child support since you'd then be bearing the majority of the costs.

Edited December 8, 2015 by NightSG

[unixknight]

Part of the problem is that lawyers make more money if there's more fighting.  It's why both parties might come to an agreement, but then after meeting with a lawyer they come back demanding more.  The lawyers egg them on so there's more to fi ght over, meaning more of their  time is used, meaning they can bill more.

 

Know why divorce lawyers ask for a statement of assets when they get started?  It ain't so they know what's being split.  It's so they know how much they can get out of you.

 

When my ex and I split up, there was no such wrangling at all, because we really didn't have anything of value.  No money for the lawyers to be made, so we just paid them to file the paperwork and that was it.  Done and done. 

[NightSG]

Part of the problem is that lawyers make more money if there's more fighting.  It's why both parties might come to an agreement, but then after meeting with a lawyer they come back demanding more.

 

Which is why I would generally say to get all the little clauses in there from the "easy to get" category as possible; the one about not letting your date stay the night while you have the kids is generally a shoo-in, because if she objects to that in court, it presents her to the judge in a bad light.  Another that's fairly easy is no alcohol within x hours (usually 24, but again, this one is rarely enforced to the letter; what you want is a prior agreement you can use against her if she shows up tipsy to pick them up, or you find her drunk while she has them...especially if she gets picked up for DUI or public intoxication during her parenting time) before having custody of the kids or while they're in her custody.  

 

Look around online and you should be able to find plenty of full texts of both state standard custody agreements, and clauses that have been approved in other divorces.  Pick and choose what you want; preferably clauses you don't mind being bound by as well, as requesting the restriction on both of you shows you're interested in the kids' well being rather than looking for ways to be petty to her.  For me, the no alcohol and no unrelated females in the house overnight were no brainers; I don't drink anymore (and the WoW is only one of several reasons) and the former Sunday school secretary lives close enough to see my driveway, so I'd probably be getting a wake up call from the bishop if someone was there overnight.

[unixknight]

I'm really sorry you're having such a rough time of it.  I really am.  I'll be praying for ya.

[Just_A_Guy]

The small portion I conceded was what we would have paid our lawyers for a years worth of legal battles fighting over the small portion.  I can either give it to the lawyers or I can give it to her. 

 

An excellent analysis, but I hope you've actually run the numbers and know that for sure; because I got the vibe from your earlier posts that this was kind of a high-asset case.  If it is, the lawyers' fees may actually be worth it depending on the size of the marital estate.

 

At least in my state, a 35/65% asset split with the 65% going to a non-working spouse would only make sense in the case of a) severe disability by the non-working spouse, b) the non-working spouse was getting primary (not joint, but primary) custody of the children, c) working spouse is darned sure it's cheaper than paying a lawyer would be, or d) working spouse is being blackmailed.

 

(You did find out about her boytoy through legal means, right?  No snooping around in her email accounts?)

Edited December 8, 2015 by Just_A_Guy