NeuroTypical Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) My other-side-of-the-fence facebook buddies are all up in my face for the supposed upswell of right-wing Christian terrorism. They tell me that a certain Republican Presidential candidate is responsible for the killing, because of public statements about the undercover PP videos. They tell me PP protesters, those who advocate to end federal funding to PP, are to blame for the killing, because of their supposed vocal hate speech against PP. I found the following quote: In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? ... We must come to see that, as the federal courts have consistently affirmed, it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence.- People who protest Planned Parenthood, and public figures who commented on the PP videos. Oh, wait - sorry. I've misattributed that quote. It wasn't from anyone against Planed Parenthood. It's a direct quote from Martin Luther King's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail". My bad. Edited December 2, 2015 by NeuroTypical prisonchaplain, Windseeker and NightSG 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 My other-side-of-the-fence facebook buddies are all up in my face for the supposed upswell of right-wing Christian terrorism. They tell me that a certain Republican Presidential candidate is responsible for the killing, because of public statements about the undercover PP videos. They tell me PP protesters, those who advocate to end federal funding to PP, are to blame for the killing, because of their supposed vocal hate speech against PP. Wow. Some friends. I'd hate to meet your enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Tell them to go hide in their safe place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Wow. Some friends. I'd hate to meet your enemies. Yeah. Thank God my friends and I can disagree (sometimes strongly) on politics and still remain civil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkstpaul Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 PP caused the violence at PP. Why they don't think the scraping of a person out of woman's womb isn't violent, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 While I'm certainly not one to blame peaceful protesters for violence, it is a sad reality that this shooting was not an isolated incident of violence/terrorism against PP. In the 30 years after abortion was legalized, there have been over 300 violent attacks against clinics (source). And while (to the best of my knowledge), there haven't been any violent attacks against American Muslims in the wake of the Paris attacks, one doesn't need to dig very deep on social media to uncover very hateful remarks and threats of violence. Words, when repeated frequently enough by a large number of a population, can be just as much a weapon of terrorism as a bomb or an assault rifle. So yes, I would say there's definitely a right-wing Christian terrorist movement in this country, and I would argue that it poses a greater threat to public safety in the US than Islamic terrorism. The glaring difference is that I frequently see peaceful Muslims condemning attacks carried out by extremists. I rarely see such condemnation from Christians when people are murdered in a PP clinic or when threats of violence are made against Muslim communities in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Words, when repeated frequently enough by a large number of a population, can be just as much a weapon of terrorism as a bomb or an assault rifle. This is an unabashed falsehood. LeSellers, carlimac, David13 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 This is an unabashed falsehood. How so? The goal of terrorism is to intimidate and threaten a population to the point of ideological surrender. Hate speech, when amplified through social media and echoed by politicians and would-be heads-of-state, can achieve that end without the use of violence. We're not talking about fringe hate groups with Twitter accounts. We're talking about large factions of our society, from a wide range of demographics, collectively speaking out in hate against an entire religion, a religion whose adherents walk peacefully among us every day. We're talking about calls for "religious tests" to qualify entry into the US being condoned and echoed by our friends and family members. How is it possible for members of the Muslim community to not fear for their lives in light of amplified rhetoric since the Paris attack? And how long will it be until rhetoric translates into violent action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 The glaring difference is that I frequently see peaceful Muslims condemning attacks carried out by extremists. I rarely see such condemnation from Christians when people are murdered in a PP clinic or when threats of violence are made against Muslim communities in the US. Ok, Godless, here you go. I'm a white Christian right-wing gun-owning male. I oppose abortion in almost every case. I oppose PP (or any other entity that performs abortions) receiving government funds, of any kind, in any amount, whether or not those funds are directly used for abortion work or not. Here's what I think about last week's PP killing:* It is a horrible thing. I utterly denounce the killing.* If I had been there, I would have tried to stop the killer.* If I knew the guy and had seen red flags, I would have reported them, or otherwise tried to stop the killer.* No really, I utterly reject Robert Dear Jr's alleged use of deadly violence. It's totally inappropriate. It's the opposite of what Jesus wants from His disciples. He is not one of me. I utterly reject, without condition, the use of violence or terrorism on law-abiding people, even if they are practicing what I believe to be legal killing of innocent children.* If you want to see the kind of Christian I support, think of Officer Swasey, one of the three victims that day. When not on the job as a cop, he was a co-pastor at his church, a homeschooling daddy, and pro-life. He didn't seem to hesitate a single second to put himself in harms way to stop the killer in the Planned Parenthood building, and he paid for his attempts to save pro-abortion people with his life. How's that? David13 and carlimac 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 How so? To equate speech with overt violence is reckless, immoral, and false. If you were talking about speech that encouraged people to go out and kill other people, that's one thing. But you are not talking about that. You are talking about people who say, truthfully, that PP is a butcher of human babies. That doesn't encourage anyone to go out and kill people; it simply states a fact. kapikui, carlimac and LeSellers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 I rarely see such condemnation from Christians when people are murdered in a PP clinic or when threats of violence are made against Muslim communities in the US. Then you are closing your eyes, plugging your ears, and intentionally blocking out anything that doesn't further your narrative. LeSellers, David13 and prisonchaplain 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 To equate speech with overt violence is reckless, immoral, and false. If you were talking about speech that encouraged people to go out and kill other people, that's one thing. But you are not talking about that. You are talking about people who say, truthfully, that PP is a butcher of human babies. That doesn't encourage anyone to go out and kill people; it simply states a fact. My hate speech remarks were aimed more towards the Syrian refugee controversy we've been seeing recently. A bit off-topic, I know (sorry), but it's been a real hot-button issue for me lately. As I said, there have been hundreds of (mostly non-fatal) attacks on PP clinics over the years. Those are acts of domestic terrorism. And as I said, I don't blame those attacks on the pro-life community at large. Pro-life rhetoric, in my opinion, hasn't reached the level of extremity and hate that recent anti-Muslim rhetoric has. After all, foreigners are a lot easier to hate than pregnant women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) In the 30 years after abortion was legalized, there have been over 300 violent attacks against clinics (source). Not to excuse anything, but this is a bit of an apples-and-oranges comparison since you're apparently comparing a relative dearth of Muslim-instigated murders on American soil (well, except for that unpleasantness in New York a decade and a half ago, and that Fort Hood nonsense . . .), with a hodge-podge of offenses against both persons and property that run the gamut from murder all the way down to eggings and the release of stink bombs. Edited December 2, 2015 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) My hate speech remarks were aimed more towards the Syrian refugee controversy we've been seeing recently. A bit off-topic, I know (sorry), but it's been a real hot-button issue for me lately. As I said, there have been hundreds of (mostly non-fatal) attacks on PP clinics over the years. Those are acts of domestic terrorism. And as I said, I don't blame those attacks on the pro-life community at large. Pro-life rhetoric, in my opinion, hasn't reached the level of extremity and hate that recent anti-Muslim rhetoric has. After all, foreigners are a lot easier to hate than pregnant women. If you're talking about what the top contenders for the GOP Primaries are saying then you've been swayed by a media both left and right trying to execute blatant character assassination by painting their statements as anti-muslim extremism. No prominent group is hating on Syrian refugees. No prominent group is hating on pregnant women. Just because people have a different plan on how to mitigate the infiltration of terrorists into the Syrian refugee crisis doesn't mean that they hate Syrian refugees or Muslims. And just because people do not want Tax Revenues to fund Planned Parenthood does not mean that they hate pregnant women. Regardless of what CNN, Fox, Facebook, or Harry Reid want to make you believe. Edited December 2, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 As far as PP and "Right Wing Christian Terrorism"... It is quite difficult for me to believe that ONLY Right Wing Christians are against the practice of fetal harvesting. If this is so, then we are truly lost as a society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I read an opinion piece today that blew my mind. The author correctly re-iterated the Pro-life position, stating the number of babies killed, the complicity of government, and what a horror this must be to us. Then he turned and said that speaking such beliefs would, of course, motivate some to kill, in response to such baby killing. So, yes Pro-lifers are irresponsible for saying what they believe, knowing that a few crazies will act out on those beliefs. Of course, my first question was--you are focusing on the gnat in my eye (speaking opinions that might cause a crazy to kill), and ignoring the plank in society's eye (killing all those babies). Then I thought: Wow, we can now suppress speech by saying it must never inflame the crazies. Hate to go all bumperstickerish, but: THE CONSTITUTION -- FRUSTRATING LIBERALS SINCE 1789 David13, Blackmarch, LeSellers and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I can name quite a few atheists and Liberals I've met who are pro-life LeSellers and David13 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 funny how crazies who open up on churches and church members are not called radical leftists in the media... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.