Do you love the temple?


Sunday21
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Guest MormonGator

Glad you liked it. Just answering the question, no, I'm not a big fan of them. I see the value, but I don't really like going. 

 

I don't like being told what to do, were to go, how to do it, etc. I'm very uncomfortable in temples, actually. 

I stand totally alone on this. People wrongly say "Oh, you are a bad LDS" or "Oh, you just don't have a recommend". While I am a bad LDS for other reasons, I do have a temple recommend. I've been three times to one temple. So I didn't say I won't go. Yes, I see the value and reason to go. I'm glad people do enjoy it. 

Edited by MormonGator
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Glad you liked it. Just answering the question, no, I'm not a big fan of them. I see the value, but I don't really like going. 

 

I don't like being told what to do, were to go, how to do it, etc. I'm very uncomfortable in temples, actually. 

I stand totally alone on this. People wrongly say "Oh, you are a bad LDS" or "Oh, you just don't have a recommend". While I am a bad LDS for other reasons, I do have a temple recommend. I've been three times to one temple. So I didn't say I won't go. Yes, I see the value and reason to go. I'm glad people do enjoy it. 

 

 

Ok, Gatorman, I'm going to chastise you a bit here, but it's done in a loving spirit.

 

Stop saying you are a bad Mormon. We are ALL sinners. Every last one of us. But, if you are trying to be the best person YOU can be, trying to be a worthy member (and to me, having a valid temple recommend is one way to help on being worthy), and work on becoming like Christ, then regardless of your weaknesses, failings, mistakes, or habits, you are NOT a bad Mormon.  

 

Just because you don't fall within the "cookie-cutter" Mormon view doesn't make you bad.  You are needed in the body of Christ. Your weirdness, non-conformity, and other unique personality quirks are needed in God's kingdom. By labeling yourself "bad", it gives the impression of being worth less than others. And that's not true.

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no, I'm not a big fan of [Temples]. I see the value, but I don't really like going. 

 

… I'm very uncomfortable in temples, actually.

While I have a hard time envisioning this (loving going to, being in, and reflecting on the Temple, as I do), it seems you are not alone. (There are people who've left the Church over this.)

But those I've spoken to who shared your feelings, the way they "get over it" is to go more often.

We are most comfortable doing things and in environments we are most familiar with. Going to the Temple often can make you feel more "friendly" there.

All the best,

Lehi

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Guest MormonGator

 (There are people who've left the Church over this.)

 

You guys are stuck with me. :-)  

 

Wow. I totally hijacked this thread. 

Thank you Sunday for posting this. 

 

Everyone on here truly rocks. 

Edited by MormonGator
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But those I've spoken to who shared your feelings, the way they "get over it" is to go more often.

Gator,

 

We love you whether you love the temple or not.

 

FWIW, over the years, I've seen various sciencey shows about how the brain works and it turns out what Lehi says above is true not just for spiritual reasons, but neurological.  When something is new to a person (music, behavior, language, etc.), the brain doesn't have neural pathways for (automated) processing said new thing.  Therefore, the brain doesn't know how to handle it, and so it doesn't like it.  As exposure to this new thing is repeated, the brain forms pathways so that processing can be automatic.  Once these are established, the thing is not "new" anymore, and the brain "likes" it.  (I find this fascinating, even if it seems obvious after learning it.)

 

Anywho, learning this has been useful for me when trying to make or break habits - it's just a matter of repetition until my brain literally gets used to it. :)

 

(This process of making new pathways is good exercise for the brain and one of the reasons doctors recommend constantly learning / trying new things - to maintain brain health.)

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I attended an open house in one of the newer, smaller temples (Langley, BC).  It was impressive, and I easily envisioned members finding great spiritual strength in such places. There was a sense of being separated from outside (a very physical, literal understanding of holiness).  Catholics have retreat centers, and Evangelicals have Bible camp.  These are quite different from temples, of course.  However, the idea of going to a place, staying for a season (whether hours or perhaps over a few days), and being totally concentrated on communing with God is something shared in all such places.  Like Lehi, I've encountered some critics who were really disturbed by their initial temple experience.  Many seem to come to terms with this discomfort through repeated visits.  Others seem to become so distraught they leave.

 

So, as an outsider I can say I get the idea of temple.  It is easy for me to see why many find great blessing from them.  During my visit I ended up feeling very neutral spiritually.  Some would say I was not open enough. Others might find it blessing enough that a Protestant clergy person did not coming away claiming to sense something wrong. 

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I do love the temple. I don't feel greater peace and clarity anywhere else. It's the best place for me to see things as they are and course-correct as needed. I've been longing to go for awhile now, but haven't been able to because of my husband's work schedule. I hope I can in the next couple of weeks. 

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Glad you liked it. Just answering the question, no, I'm not a big fan of them. I see the value, but I don't really like going. 

 

I don't like being told what to do, were to go, how to do it, etc. I'm very uncomfortable in temples, actually. 

I stand totally alone on this. People wrongly say "Oh, you are a bad LDS" or "Oh, you just don't have a recommend". While I am a bad LDS for other reasons, I do have a temple recommend. I've been three times to one temple. So I didn't say I won't go. Yes, I see the value and reason to go. I'm glad people do enjoy it. 

 

I'm the same, I don't like going to the temple much either. I'm not comfortable with large groups of people, or with repeated ritual, and all the hustle and bustle moving around from one thing to the other leaves me feeling bothered every single time I go. I've tried to like the experience, but really, if I'm honest, I just don't. 

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Gator, some months ago an older gentleman in my ward presented at Enrichment night. I didn't know him, just had seen him about on Sundays. For the self-defense class he was teaching, he was wearing a muscle shirt displaying his tattoos from his wild youth. Still didn't think anything of it. He later mentioned the martial arts instructor who had introduced him to the church... and described him as a man who, if one could be excommunicated for being scary-looking, would have been kicked out long ago

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Gator, some months ago an older gentleman in my ward presented at Enrichment night. I didn't know him, just had seen him about on Sundays. For the self-defense class he was teaching, he was wearing a muscle shirt displaying his tattoos from his wild youth. Still didn't think anything of it. He later mentioned the martial arts instructor who had introduced him to the church... and described him as a man who, if one could be excommunicated for being scary-looking, would have been kicked out long ago

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If I can point to some very practical reasons to enjoy the temple experience, we may have an understanding of the spiritual aspects as well.

 

"Studies show" (I seem to be saying that a lot lately) that a repeated ritual will get you into the right frame of mind for whatever follows.  Example: If you have a repeated ritual before you go to bed each night, it will help you sleep better. :cloud9: .  This is one benefit of nightly prayer :pray: .  But I'm often so tired that it really doesn't matter. :zzz:

 

The primary purpose of the repeated ritual of the temple ceremony is to get us into the right frame of mind as we enter the celestial room.  :angel:   Think about what it takes to go anywhere these days.  We have to plan; we have to get dressed for the occasion; we have to drive through what is usually stressful traffic; find parking; go into a common location, often with people we don't know; and the temple then requires that we change our clothes again!  :bonk:

 

But then we are told a story that has all the elements of a classical short story that is rich in metaphor and spiritual meaning. (BTW, if you think this is the story of Adam and Eve, you're missing the most important point of the story).  We  :hmmm: do various mini-rituals that focus our minds on our relationship with God.  And we are led to one of the most beautiful and clean rooms we can regularly experience. :winner:

 

Imagine the peace Sis. Carb and I feel when we go somewhere that is so clean, peaceful, and beautiful.  I don't have a dozen people from work asking me to approve stuff, or tell them how something is done, or clients telling me to justify my designs.  She doesn't have 7 children pulling her in all different directions while making messes in rooms that she just got cleaned up 5 minutes before, or the constant fighting, yelling, and mom, can I...? or better yet -- where is my...? :fullband:

 

And did I mention we are a homeschooling family?

 

In the Celestial Room, it's just us and a few other people sitting in a room that we can just sit and recognize what peace really feels like.  We can discuss our journey together on our road toward our Father in Heaven.  We live close enough that we can do this once a week.  And it is certainly a different experience than church attendance.

Edited by Guest
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The primary purpose of the repeated ritual of the temple ceremony is to get us into the right frame of mind as we enter the celestial room.

I see your point, but I'd dispute that it is the "primary reason" is to get one in the proper frame of mind.

The primary reason for going often is to serve others, to become "saviors on Mount Zion", to do for them what they cannot do for themselves.

The majority of the Christian world rejects proxy work for the dead (all the while accepting the proxy work of Christ for the spiritually dead), but it has a purpose they simply cannot grasp: we are creating a web with Christ and Father at the center and that connects us with the entire human family. Each knot in this web is a sealing of spouses, of parents and children. And the web is the Kingdom of God, the very "world" for which Christ offered Himself because of His love for His Father.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
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Just before going through the temple my first time one of my friends had just finished going through in preparation for his mission. He ended up leaving the church instead saying that freaky expletive stuff went on in their and he wanted nothing to do with it. He was still down with the rest of the church but didn't like the temple or agree with what goes on in there. His parents felt bad that they had not helped prepare him better and had a brief conversation with me about how everything there just builds on gospel principles already taught and that there should be no surprises.

 

I went to the temple the first time wondering what on earth would happen in there that no one was allowed to talk about, but also trusting that it must be sacred - I never believed the nonsense that goes around about what happens. I felt it was an interesting experience, but it didn't ever bother me. A nice Elders Quorum President wanted to ensure I became more comfortable with going and set time aside to take me on a few more occasions. He even took me for chinese food to discuss things about it. These early temple experiences were nice, even if unfamiliar to me.

 

On my mission we could go to the temple on preparation day. My trainer would make us get at 5:30 am to travel to the bountiful temple from near Hill AFB (Clinton, Sunset, Clearfield all runs together). I ended up sick and really needed to rest on P-day, but my trainer would have none of it and as a greenie I wasn't ready to stand up to him so I went along and didn't get my rest which kept me ill for six-weeks. I was too tired and unwell to ever get anything out of it and started to despise being there.

 

I later regained some enjoyment of the temple - especially doing initiatory and baptisms. I can tend to struggle with the changes that have taken place over time, even since I've been attending. I suppose this is what ongoing revelation is for, but it seems like ordinances aren't supposed to change; hence we don't Baptize by sprinkling and so on. So it eats away at me when I'm there remembering how certain things were done and how they are done and knowing that many changes have happened along the way.

 

I also had the unfortunate experience of a terrible wedding day that further taints my temple experience somewhat, because even to go do sealings there is always a part of me that feels like I missed out on something special that day. My wife and her family insisted that we had to have the day over-full of non-essential crap so we didn't have time to enjoy the actually important part of the day and reflect on the commitment/covenant being made. Maybe I'm just weak minded but I always feel like going to the temple re-opens wounds and hurt feelings.

 

I also find that so many people seem to talk about how much they learn in the temple - I can't say I've ever felt this way either. I learn more reading in the scriptures than I do attending the temple. I might not be wired to pick up the lessons that are supposedly there for me and it makes me feel stupid - even with an IQ score and patriarchal blessing that suggest I'm actually quite bright.

 

I have the further trouble of having lived so close to a temple that I could literally walk there within five minutes, that the idea of driving for an hour both ways makes it hard to pull off - there is pretty much only time on Saturday and I have so much other stuff to catch up on Saturday that my temple attendance is woefully infrequent these days. Add a wife that takes two-years to get ready and is incapable of being punctual and the added blessing of a little baby and my outlook of improving attendance doesn't appear to be going up.

 

To summarize, I know I should love the temple, I would like to say I love the temple, I have felt the peace the temple has to offer (but inconsistently), I love to go for walks around the temple, but I don't love going through the temple.

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I also find that so many people seem to talk about how much they learn in the temple - I can't say I've ever felt this way either. I learn more reading in the scriptures than I do attending the temple. I might not be wired to pick up the lessons that are supposedly there for me and it makes me feel stupid - even with an IQ score and patriarchal blessing that suggest I'm actually quite bright.

 

I'm wondering how this compares with you reading scripture in the temple. For you does there seem to be any difference?

While temple ritual touches on many of the ways people learn (Far more than Sunday school classes) Reading would be one of the weaker learning aspects in this situation.

(I'm talking about methods of learning such as reading, seeing, hearing, doing etc...)

Edited by Crypto
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I'm wondering how this compares with you reading scripture in the temple. For you does there seem to be any difference?

While temple ritual touches on many of the ways people learn (Far more than Sunday school classes) Reading would be one of the weaker learning aspects in this situation.

(I'm talking about methods of learning such as reading, seeing, hearing, doing etc...)

 

Reading scriptures in the temple is nice, but it's generally just reading while waiting for a session to begin or my wife to finish changing so we can go. There apparently used to be a study area in the temple closest to my home where people could just go and soak up the temple experience and study scriptures. I would have enjoyed this.

 

When I study the scriptures I can stop at any time I want and think over a particular point and write down notes and then proceed to dig further and increase my understanding. I can also discuss what I read with family and friends or bring things up here. When I go to the temple it is like I'm sitting in on a lecture where I can't take notes and I can't stop the lecture to think about certain points in much greater detail. By the time I get to the Celestial room I've lost a lot of what I was hoping to retain and think on further. On top of all that I'm not really supposed to discuss much of it outside the temple setting. It's a real struggle for me. I feel like if my only access to scriptures involved listening to them in 2-3 hour blocks without pausing I'd find it more difficult as well and would get much less from it. I'd actually love to be able to read a manuscript of the endowment while there and perhaps only focus on one area while cross referencing with other scriptures (taking notes would help a lot too) to establish connections I hadn't yet considered. Alas I'm left with this weakness always feeling like I'm supposed to be learning something that I probably never will.

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Reading scriptures in the temple is nice, but it's generally just reading while waiting for a session to begin or my wife to finish changing so we can go. .... Alas I'm left with this weakness always feeling like I'm supposed to be learning something that I probably never will.

SpiritDragon: I think this is what Crypto was saying.  If your strongest learning method is by reading (appears to be so, as is mine), then the temple ceremony doesn't include your strongest learning method (it includes pretty much all the others - watching/listening, some doing, some moving while learning).

 

I don't feel like I learn a lot during any given session, but the more often I go, the more easily I can remember what I heard so that I can ponder what was said, and study the scriptures that seem related, then when I go back, I try to double-check what I think I remembered.  It's slow going.  Your description of what you wish it was like sounds downright heavenly.

 

Mostly, I just enjoy the peace, the Spirit, and the knowledge that I'm providing an ordinance someone on the other side needs to progress.

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I was taught by my mission president that preparing your mind body and spirit a few days before attending a temple session was preferred. I kind of fail at that part but at the very least I feel good about being a proxy and completing the session physically for someone deceased who couldnt do it for themselves. As a matter of fact I always say a prayer in the waiting room just before we get ushered into the session, asking the Lord to bless the deceased to accept the ordinance. I find great comfort in knowing that whomever the deceased person is that I am performing the work for would be very grateful for my efforts - whether they accept it or not I imagine making a new eternal friend and possibly a new guardian angel to watch over me while I live on this earth.

 

 

As far as the session goes, I fall asleep for about 50% of the presentation. The times that I attended temples in Utah no one really falls asleep but the Further you get outside of Utah (more specifically outside of the continental US) I notice more people with their heads down and eyes closed. I remember in Japan the temple workers facilitating the session sleeping. :)

 

...different places. different cultures. One true church. :)

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Alma 12:And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

 

Edited by brrgilbert
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I love the temple because I love the endowment presentation. I think it is beautiful and profoundly meaningful. I think that I would probably love the washings and anointings to the same degree if I did them a whole lot.

The whole thing, from Ordination (for men) through Clothing to sealing, is the Endowment.

The Washings and Anointings are part of the ceremony, and they are where the vast majority of the blessings (by both count, at least) are offered.

Lehi

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