DH's internet habits...how worried should I be?

[MormonMama]

 

When anyone accesses porn they invite, I mean they give an invitation for evil spirits to invade your home. These spirits will try to destroy your husband, you and your children. Once his addiction becomes compulsive he has already become possessed with an unclean spirit and needs it cast out. Your house will have to be blessed as well as you and your children.

 

 

This is probably why I felt prompted to check.  Something just didn't feel "right" in our home.  There has definitely been more contention lately, but I'd initially chalked that up to the whole holiday rush thing.  DH has seemed on edge and defensive about everything the past few weeks.  My teenager and I have been having trouble sleeping and we didn't know why.  Our home just felt "unsettled".  Now I guess I know why.

 

Since I confronted DH and he confessed, things have felt more peaceful in our home.  You would think it wouldn't be, that there would be more tension, but there's been less since that point. 

 

I've asked DH what drove him to look at these pictures this time and he says he just doesn't know.  He insists it's not me, the pregnancy or my weight gain (we've both gained quite a bit of weight over the years of our marriage), but he just can't identify any one thing that caused him to start again.  I personally think it could be stress.  He got laid off from a good job several months ago and the only job he has been able to get since then doesn't pay nearly enough to cover our expenses and will most likely be dropping hours starting in January.  With a baby on the way, I know that has to be stressing him out a lot more than he lets on.

 

DH has decided he wants us to talk to the bishop together, which I'm happy to do.  I don't think I'd want to do this alone either, if it were me in his shoes.  Hopefully the bishop can get to the root of the initial problem and help us sort this out.  DH did learn some coping mechanisms from our previous bishop during his last battle with porn years ago, but he says they are not working this time around.

 

I'm just glad we caught it early this time around, before it moved on to harder things.  Hopefully that will make it easier for DH to overcome this time. 

[jerome1232]

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."  Matthew 5:28.  Directly from the mouth of Jesus.

By directly from the mouth of Jesus you mean to say written down by an anonymous author at least 50 years after the crucifixion.

Yeah sure, real direct.

[Vort]

Okay, you and I get something VERY different from that scripture.  Jesus DOES equate it with adultery.  He says that person has committed adultery already.  The fact that it's "in his heart" makes no difference.  I have been taught this in Sunday School as well, so clearly I am not the only person in the church who believes this.

 

Whether or not you are the only one to believe this, whether or not it was taught in a Sunday School class -- these things are irrelevant. It's a false statement.

 

Tell me, MM: Will a man risk excommunication if he tells his bishop or stake president that he lusted after a woman who was not his wife? Do you honestly believe that the path to repentance for a man guilty of committing adultery in his heart is exactly the same as that of a man guilty of committing adultery in his bed?

 

I sympathize with you, and am sorry for your pain. But useless hyperbole will not help you understand this situation any better or heal any faster. You yourself quoted the Biblical passage. Read it again, and without your preconceptions. Jesus did not say, "Lust is adultery." This is simply false.

[Guest]

Well, considering that the male brain and female brain are scientifically different and that the male brain is more oriented towards logic and rationality and the female brain is more oriented towards emotion. 

 

If you've got the time, it is well worth the watch.

 

 

It is not about emotion vs. logic.  I find that to be a sexist statement.  It is about our steps of logic and seeing the relationships between domino one and domino two.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Guest

[yjacket]

 

It is not about emotion vs. logic.  I find that to be a sexist statement.  

I'll take a look at it thank you.  Okay, I've been married 10+ years, have both boys and girls. Call it however you want, male brain and female brains work differently and men and women are physically different. No women can't do the same things men can and no men can't do the same things women can. My girls act quite differently then my boys.

 

It's called sexual dimorphism, it's exhibited in just about all species.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism

 

Sexism is about believing that one sex is better than the other.

 

I need my wife just as much as she needs me; I play different roles than she does but we both need each other and are both the same in God's eyes.

 

You can take your sexism claim and shove it.

[Guest]

You can take your sexism claim and shove it.

 

As long as you're an equal opportunity hater. :)

[Backroads]

I'm not quite following. Christ was pretty blunt at times, at other times use metaphors.

This whole issue is about gender; porn is one of those things that is literally processed differently for men and woman. It is bad, no doubt. However, when a woman sees her husband using porn it is seen as "I'm not good enough not pretty enough, it's my fault etc." as in the porn has to deal with personally with her. Her self-image is wrapped up in it and she sees herself as less of a person, degraded, etc. when her husband uses porn.

When in reality, the porn has very little if anything to do with her as a person. As far as the actual science of it goes, it is still pretty muddled and honestly society nor actual science as a whole really has figured it all out yet what the effects are. The only thing we do know for sure is that the prophets and Christ have told us pornography/lust is bad. The internet and mass porn production has really only been around for max 20 years and really 15 years since internet became available to just about everyone.

So why would a man look at porn? Quite frankly and bluntly because for a very short period of time it makes them feel better. Why do people watch movies? Because it is exciting and in general makes them feel good.

Some men get addicted to it; some men do not. Just because a man uses porn does not necessarily mean he is addicted to it. Now it is certainly very addictive and the chances are high that one will get addicted but not necessarily.

And it's actually a good thing that the female form makes men feel better, otherwise the human race might have gone extinct a long time ago.

So two questions, why do people get addicted to things and if a man is not addicted to porn, why would he look at it? Both of them have the same root. If a man is addicted to it, just like all addictions he will need some outside help to overcome it. But just like all addictions, while he will need outside help-only he can make the decisions to change or start to change.

The reasons why he would look at it is simple-there is something broken inside of him; whether it is depression, sadness, loneliness, lack of emotional connection, etc. There is something lacking and to cover it up he uses porn. It's better than a drug as you don't have to deal with needles, cops, etc. It uses the most powerful feelings and emotions to make a man feel good (even if it is for just a short period of time).

So how do you "fix" it? Well if he's an addict, there are groups. But otherwise, he has to figure out how to fix himself.

So what can a spouse do? Stomp her foot and say respect me and if you don't stop I'll kick you out of the house? Even if it works for this particular problem, it will still most likely exacerbate the underlying issues.

So what can a spouse really do? While the problem is something only he can fix, what a spouse can do is provide a home base where the underlying drivers for this behavior can be fixed and mitigated. So how does a spouse provide a home base where depression, loneliness, lack of emotional connection, etc. can be fixed?

By being the best spouse possible.

It is my firm believe that no man in a solid happy marriage would find much pleasure in porn. Why? because he doesn't need it. Why would he go look at pictures when he can find so much more enjoyment with his spouse, by talking through the things of life, enjoying a good relationship, etc.

I know this isn't what you're saying, but the very idea of a man not needing porn if his home life and marriage are secure can put, at least the image of, a lot of pressure on a wife. In that scenario she can be led to believe she just isn't being good enough: if she were just more nurturing, more loving, more supportive, more spiritual, more whatever, the porn problem wouldn't continue.

And again, I know you don't mean to put any blame on a spouse for a partner's porn issues which are ultimately that partner's alone.

Just pointing out it's difficult to get around female instinctive guilt.

[estradling75]

Porn use is a spectrum.  It can range from occasional/recreational use, to full blown addiction. (Addiction in the true sense of the word were it impairs major life functions like holding a job)  To help you kind of need to get a feel for were the person is on the scale. 

 

The closer they are to the occasional/recreational end the easier it is for them to get away, the hooks haven't set or really found much purchase.  The farther along the spectrum the more likely it is that it has got a good hook in.  Usually by creating or exploiting an existing weakness, lack, or void.  The precise nature of the deficit can vary from person to person.  This make porn use a symptom of an underlining problem not the cause.  This means you simply can't will it away.  No matter how much they might love their spouse, no matter how much they might want to simply stop... The best they can do is mask the symptoms for while, until and unless they fix the root problem.

 

Many carry this into marriage thinking marriage will fix it, because they are addressing the symptom.  This fails.  Spouses are not responsible for the mess.  But they are a help-meet and they have in their power to make things harder or easier.  But harder or easier it still falls on the one who as the problem to work out how to fix it.

[Guest]

Vort, what did Jesus mean when he said, "...he hath already committed adultery in his heart."?

[Vort]

Vort, what did Jesus mean when he said, "...he hath already committed adultery in his heart."?

 

It seems clear to me that he was saying, "You have already taken the first step." If you want to avoid adultery, don't start down the path. If you lust after a woman, you have taken the first step; you have committed adultery with her in your heart. This is a very bad thing. Don't do it.

 

But I maintain that no reasonable person believes that committing adultery in your heart is the same as (or as bad as) committing adultery in your bed.

[estradling75]

 

 

But I maintain that no reasonable person believes that committing adultery in your heart is the same as (or as bad as) committing adultery in your bed.

 

If they did... Most of us would not get pass our teenage years without needing a Church Court

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I get where MM is coming from because that was always the way I thought of it too. But reading Vort's comments made me realize that I never really thought it through. Vort is right.

I think this kind of misunderstanding with the gospel and the scriptures happens more often than we would like to think....at least it does for me. I count that as a good thing. When I was a child, I thought as a child, now I am an adult and I'm beginning to see deeper meanings than I did before.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I get where MM is coming from because that was always the way I thought of it too. But reading Vort's comments made me realize that I never really thought it through. Vort is right.

I think this kind of misunderstanding with the gospel and the scriptures happens more often than we would like to think....at least it does for me. I count that as a good thing. When I was a child, I thought as a child, now I am an adult and I'm beginning to see deeper meanings than I did before.

[Guest]

It really is no different than the "don't go too close to the cliff".

 

I give the analogy of the dominoes.  Some simple sins only have a couple of dominoes.  There is very little warning before the final domino will fall.  But serious sins have many dominoes fall before the deed is done.  The "looking on a woman..." is already a few dominoes down the road.  He should back up to before the first one.  But yes, the later dominoes have not fallen...yet.  Get back before it is too late.

 

Take a look at the context of the scripture in question.  Jesus was giving a series of statements on what the Law of Moses said vs. the Law of the Gospel.  

 

Moses: Thou shalt not kill

Gospel: Thou shalt not be angry with your brother

Moses: Foreswear thyself

Gospel: Swear not at all.  Just do what you say you'll do.

Moses: Eye for an eye

Gospel: Turn the other cheek

 

Does anyone here believe that if you're angry with your brother then you are guilty of murder?  Of course not.  But it is a first step.  So as Pres. Uchdorf says: STOP IT.

[Aussie Mongrel]

The first step towards porn addiction for men is to lust after women and visa versa. The WORLD says men and women have different brains and men are more visual, physical and sexual LOL. My libido is ten times that of my husbands but I do not lust after other men. I control my desires that are only for my husband. Worldly wisdom says men look at women and that's just what they do and they are also permitted when they are young to urinate in the bushes even when there is a toilet available?

 

When men / women start to look to long and lust at the opposite sex it causes adrenaline to flow in the brain. Once evil and unclean spirits are aware of this they hover over their victim / sinner and project more imagery which causes more adrenaline. This adrenaline becomes like a drug to them and before you know you can easily get possessed because of the sin.

 

When the victim / sinner is possessed the evil and unclean spirit causes them to become compulsive by also projecting their own desires onto them and then they need more and more new and different filth to get the same desired result.

 

As far as I know there are no scriptures or church leaders who have stated that men and women are different in their brains and men have  higher physical or sexual desires therefore they are more likely to look at women and lust after them, so as a result it is harder for men and they need to trivialize the sin?  

 

I truly believe that Jesus wanted us all to understand that lust is a deadly sin that can and does have deadly consequences. If you don't conquer your porn addiction or looking around and lusting here in this world it will be so much harder in the spirit world when our desires for good or evil are magnified. Those who die in their sins become subject to Satan LDS or not.

[omegaseamaster75]

The first step towards porn addiction for men is to lust after women and visa versa. The WORLD says men and women have different brains and men are more visual, physical and sexual LOL. My libido is ten times that of my husbands but I do not lust after other men. I control my desires that are only for my husband. Worldly wisdom says men look at women and that's just what they do and they are also permitted when they are young to urinate in the bushes even when there is a toilet available?

 

Men's and Women's brains do work differently. It's called science. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders. You libido is specific to you and you only. 

 

When men / women start to look to long and lust at the opposite sex it causes adrenaline to flow in the brain. Once evil and unclean spirits are aware of this they hover over their victim / sinner and project more imagery which causes more adrenaline. This adrenaline becomes like a drug to them and before you know you can easily get possessed because of the sin.

 

When the victim / sinner is possessed the evil and unclean spirit causes them to become compulsive by also projecting their own desires onto them and then they need more and more new and different filth to get the same desired result.

 

 

Are you saying that porn addicts are possessed? I think that this is what your saying.  What a cop out for any porn addict. "The devil made me do it" That's great, how about the individual taking some personal responsibility for their actions?

 

 

As far as I know there are no scriptures or church leaders who have stated that men and women are different in their brains and men have  higher physical or sexual desires therefore they are more likely to look at women and lust after them, so as a result it is harder for men and they need to trivialize the sin?  

 

I truly believe that Jesus wanted us all to understand that lust is a deadly sin that can and does have deadly consequences. If you don't conquer your porn addiction or looking around and lusting here in this world it will be so much harder in the spirit world when our desires for good or evil are magnified. Those who die in their sins become subject to Satan LDS or not.

https://www.lds.org/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/differences-inherent-between-men-and-women?lang=eng

 

We are different even our general authorities recognize it.

[LeSellers]

Pornography is a male thing. It is dangerous to the man, to his family, and to society as a whole.

It makes him immune to "real" women, and, particularly, to his wife. The air-brushed hotties on the page/screen are beyond real, and the original woman in the picture is only the canvas on which the pornographer paints his images. (Other, similar points can be raised about videoporn, but we need not explore them independently.)

However, what escapes too many is the fact that "romance novels" (and other like kinds of "art", e.g., soap operas and many "chick flicks") fulfill the same role for women as porn does for men: the "heroes" are not real men, either. They make women immune to real men, they are dangerous to the women reader and to her family, to her husband, and to society.

In either case they set up a "standard" no human being can achieve, and the reader/viewer contrasts his spouse with the imaginary, "perfected" man or woman in his mind with the one he's "stuck" with. Invariably, the spouse falls short, and the addict is dissatisfied with his own life. He turns to more and more of the imaginary world, where everyone fulfills fantasies and there are no obligations or costs.

Porn is more visible, less accepted (in the Church and "polite society"), and the user can safely be disparaged. Romance novels, just as powerful and destructive, are seen as harmless, and no one (a few of us excepted) castigates the reader.

Unless and until we also level the guns of morality on these targets as well, we will have the continuation of the destruction of the Family and of our culture and society.

Lehi

Edited December 23, 2015 by LeSellers

[Guest]

 

 

Are you saying that porn addicts are possessed? I think that this is what your saying.  What a cop out for any porn addict. "The devil made me do it" That's great, how about the individual taking some personal responsibility for their actions?

 

I believe it was meant the other way around: pornography addiction can make a person vulnerable to the influence, certainly, and possibly the possession of the addict by evil spirits who stand in wait. 

 

Pornography is spiritual poison. It is destructive. It's not just a bad habit, or a replacement for a man desperate to fill in the holes of an imperfect marriage. It is brain-altering, spirit-decimating poison. 

[Aussie Mongrel]

When you keep looking at porn you open yourself up to becoming possessed by evil and unclean spirits! Of course its your fault there's no cop out here. Like if you delve into voodoo or black magic you open yourself up for possession. Evil spirits will possess you and invade your home and afflict your wife and children also.

 

When these evil spirits have successfully possessed you they go after the rest of your family especially your wife and your children. I believe that they want to destroy the children more than anything else. So really porn addiction is a very selfish and family destructive tool used by Satan to destroy the family, the souls of men and future generations.

 

Pornography use to be more a mans problem but apparently around 50% of Christian men and 30% of Christian women have problems with porn. So women are catching up. One in three referrals to LDS social services is for porn related addictions / problems.

 

I know several men who have had evil spirits cast out of them because they had been fighting porn addictions since childhood. They have said that when the evil spirits were cast out, the overwhelming compulsion feelings left with the evil spirits. What they were left with was the bad habits and conditioning that they were able to fight because they stopped themselves from looking around at women which reduced the adrenaline; which in turn stopped the desire for more explicit pornography.

 

This brings us back to Jesus and our church leaders who have encouraged us to nip any inappropriate thought in the bud before it takes hold. If you don't entertain inappropriate thoughts they wont be able to constantly entertain / destroy you. In our mind is were it all starts for both men and women. I do believe men and women have different brains, however it goes much deeper than that everyone on the planet has a different brain?  That is why we are individuals!

 

My husband tells me all the time that he has never ever met anyone like me before male or female. The closest person he knows who is somewhat similar to me is his best male friend? Obviously our Father in Heaven knows that we are all different but he also knows that if we all try to keep our minds pure and clean it will be much harder for evil spirits to possess us and destroy our families.

[jerome1232]

So like, according to you when I go running and adrenaline starts getting pumped out through my veins I am opening myself to possession by evil spirits?

I knew runners were possessed!

Now I'm no biological expert but I'm not familiar with adrenaline being associated with sexual excitment, I recall dopamine and oxytocin... But adrenaline doesn't sound right at all.

[jerome1232]

[Double post]

Edited December 23, 2015 by jerome1232

[JojoBag]

WOW....I read through most of these posts SMH

 

MM are your his mom or his wife? "I'm gonna brown you out to the bishop, so you better talk to him first" He is a grown man he knows the deal and can go to the bishop if he decides that he needs to. I don't think that looking at racy pictures, and a couple instances of self abuse rise to the level of seeing the bishop. Don't get me wrong I am not excusing his behavior not at all. He needs to stop and stop right now.

 

Sure sounds like you are making excuses or at least trivializing the behavior.  You make it sound as if it's no big deal looking at filth. In this justification, you make it sound as it the Savior would just love to be sitting right by the man while he lusts after a woman who isn't his wife.  And that's the standard we all should be striving for: would I do these behaviors if the Savior was next to me.

 

 

What you have are communication problems, a fundamental failure to express to him how hurtful and painful it is when he looks at these images. When you get upset, make threats, shame him, you accomplish nothing. In fact you make it harder for him to want to stop. You create resentment and he will close you out. 

 

I recommend you see a MFT not the bishop unless your husband decides on his own that he wants to do so (I don't think that it rises to that level). Most bishops are not MFT's and he will tell your guy  to knock it off and throw a copy of Spencer W. Kimballs book at him. Telling him how he will turn gay if he keeps it up.

 

Lastly next time your in church surrounded by all of these "worthy" guys think about this.....all of them have looked at porn in the past (some currently), and all of them have self abused some not for may years and some quite recently. I can guarantee you they didn't see the bishop every time it happened. Don't judge and don't compare him to others. 

 

Ok. I shouldn't say all, someone on this site who grew up in a cardboard box, in a cave on a mountain top, will pop up and say what I have posted is untrue.

 

This is pathetic.  That's about the only word I can say for it.  All you are doing is to minimizing and trivializing this man's behavior.  It is flat out wrong and would keep him from getting a temple recommend.  That requires him to see the bishop.  You can give all the justifications in the world, but it won't change the seriousness of the situation.

[JojoBag]

Well it's not porn, it's not and that's not justifying anything, dwelling on semantics or using worldly definitions. 

 

It can be made to be porn depending on usage of the materials.

 

This is a very large pile of extremely smelly organic waste products.  This is nothing more than the wisdom of the world speaking.  Based on this, I suppose the Savior would be surfing through the same material.  Sure, right, keep on minimizing this.

[JojoBag]

So out of curiosity, what happens if one spouse refuses flat-out to stop looking at whatever level of porn or similar, giving a simple "I understand where you are coming from and I love you, but I choose this and it's not stopping in the forseen future." Does a good wife just learn to live with it and be miserable? It seems the "don't divorce" idea puts all power with one spouse who can then do whatever he or she wants short of abuse and adultery and the partner just has to deal with it.

 

This is a typical worldly interpretation of the doctrine of forgiveness.  A spouse must endure abuse, which is what looking at porn is, in the eyes of these type of LDS.  This goes against the counsel of Brigham Young when he told women to follow their husbands, but not to hell.  This is exactly what looking at porn, euphemistically trivialized as "racy photos," leads to if the offender does not repent.  And if they don't repent, then divorce is justified.

[JojoBag]

Wow you must never leave your house or turn on the TV ever. How do you eat? Just curious? I mean when your buying groceries and the latest issue of Cosmopolitan is staring at you in the check out line do you rush to your car and call the bishop because you glanced at a magazine cover? What about Woman's health? Golf digest when they have a female cover? (see the Lexi Thompson cover).

 

My goodness people.....

 

Once again, you are justifying looking at porn.  This response is simply saying, "It's all around me so I have no choice but to look."    This basically says that the publishers of these magazines have a gun in your back forcing you to look at the immodestly dressed models.  The April 2010 New Era published a reply to a question posed by a young man.

 

 

Questions and Answers

New Era Apr 2010, Pg. 10

“How can I have clean thoughts when I see so much immodesty around me?”

It may seem like you can’t go anywhere today without seeing people immodestly dressed, whether in person or in the media. You may not always be able to control your surroundings, but you can control your thoughts.

If you see an immodestly dressed person, you can quickly look away or remove yourself from the situation. If an unclean thought comes to mind, choose not to dwell on it, but rather crowd it out with clean thoughts. “Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then … the Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion” (D&C 121:45–46). Having clean thoughts will help you be happier and have the influence of the Spirit with you.

Make it a habit always to have clean thoughts. Try to be around people who dress modestly, and avoid situations where you might see immodest dress. Pray for Heavenly Father to help you. Memorize hymns or scriptures so you have good things to think of when you are tempted. Read the scriptures regularly, and attend the temple if possible. Then when you see someone dressed immodestly, you can think of something positive.

 

Just don't look.  Look at the floor and count the tiles, read the ingredients on a can of chili, talk to yourself, look at a picture of Christ on your cell phone - anything other than lust at the models on the magazines.  It's called self-control.