Can't Keep Living Like This

[LRK99]

I'll do my best to give a background without taking too long.

Married 9 years, 1 toddler, 1 on the way. When I met my husband and we were dating, he was very involved in the church. He had a strong testimony, volunteered for everything, and it continued well into our marriage. We fought a lot the first couple years of marriage, as we are both stubborn. I wasn't very good at conflict resolution, as I was always spanked, yelled at, and punished without real talks from my parents. So, my only solution was to yell and try to get the last word. It took me a bit to realize this, and I made major changes. We were actually very happy after those first couple of years. Rarely fought, got along well, spent a lot of time with one another, traveled, etc. Then, 6 1/2 years into our marriage, we had our firstborn, as we had tried for over 4 years. Things changed.

My husband began diving into the online world. Nothing pornographic or social media wise, but spent time watching a lot of YouTube videos and browsing the web, typically guy related humor type sites and news sources.  He had always been a bit of an internet junkie, but it became much worse. I had a hard time with our newborn and felt I was dealing with it all myself while my husband lived in his own world. He hated his job at the time, having a boss who was a serious micromanager. He was not only miserable at work, but I felt he was miserable at home, and suggested he had the male version of postpartum. I advised him to take a visit to his doctor and talk to someone, which he did. He spoke to a counselor for a good year, and was put on anti-depressants. 

Fast forward to almost a year. Knowing how miserable he was in his job, I suggested he start looking for a change. I helped him apply to many places, and he ended up with a wonderful job out of state. He says he's happy here, and about 6 months ago, decided to go off of his medication (we've only been out of state for 6 months, so he went of meds right after the move). 

I feel like we're back to square one. He still says he's happier at his job, but something in him has changed again. He's delved so much into his online world and watches highly profane Youtube videos. He plays them out loud until I ask him to use headphones or turn it off. It's gotten to the point where he says "they're just words". Now, in the past couple of weeks, he will cuss and use the F word toward me when angry, even over something small. His temper is short, his patience is non-existent, and he talks down to me. I feel my son and I take the brunt of whatever is making him angry. Of course, it's always somebody else's fault he's mad. The driver on the road, me, our son, the dog, the tree outside, etc. I suggested he's depressed again and how I'm concerned about his behavior.

To add, he's lost his testimony and interest in the church. He fell behind on tithing, but I pushed it (I stay home with our son) and wouldn't drop it until he caught up again, as I had to plan the budget. I was about to visit our temple for a RS trip, and I told him I didn't feel right because of being behind in tithing. This is when he made changes to catch up, so we are caught up again. Many Sunday mornings he doesn't want to go to church. When I talk to him about my concern, he says he's sacrificed so much for the church already. I feel him pulling away is a huge factor to why our marriage is falling apart. Guilt maybe? I don't know. He's no longer interested in the temple and told me he doesn't miss going (it's been over a year since he's been). When I suggest we read scriptures, he gets defensive and thinks I'm preaching to him.

With his anger, my son gets stuck in the middle. As much as I dislike spanking, his first reaction when angry is to hit. Not slap or do anything hard, but spank his bottom (he's 18 months). I've expressed my discomfort with this. I feel he's too rough with our son. He has zero patience for him and treats him like he's much older, not a baby. I just feel like we are constantly on eggshells around him.

I don't know if I can stick around anymore. I'm tired of this. I'm tired of his short temper. I'm tired of him always being angry. I'm tired of it always being everyone else's fault. He refuses to take responsibility for any of his actions. I'm tired of my son being thrown in the middle of this. I'm tired of the garbage he watches and listens to, and how he exposes it to our boy without a care. I'm tired of the way he speaks to me. I'm not perfect either. I lose my temper with him. I'll say mean things to him as well. I'm not always calm and collected myself. I snap at him when I feel I'm being stretched too thin. We're both conflicting, not just him. I just feel like a perfectly good day can go sour so quickly because of his temper. 

Thanks for reading.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I'm so sorry you and your husband are going through this.  It sounds to me like you are both hurting and suffering.  I think he could use some more counseling, and I think you both need marriage counseling.  (I'm in counseling myself, and it has been a huge help to me that is why I recommend it.  :) )

 

Because of my background, I have very little tolerance for "bad tempers", spanking and yelling.  So in your situation PERHAPS a separation is needed.  I say perhaps, because really I can't make that judgment from one post, and even if I were your best friend and next door neighbor, I would hesitate to say, "You should . . ." that is a decision that is best left between you and the Lord.

 

What I can say is see your Bishop, and get a blessing.  Pray like you've never prayed before, and listen for the Holy Ghost like you have never listened before.  

 

If you do decide that you have to leave, consider separation rather than divorce.  It may be that some time apart could be healing to your marriage.  I've seen that happen more than once, and more than once (twice to be exact) I have known couples to who got divorced, then later fell in love again and remarried.  Some of the best marriages I have seen went through some hellish years to get there.  

The Lord will help you through this whatever comes, as long as you allow Him to. Be patient.  Pres. Uchtdorf said, "Patience can transform ordinary men and women into angels."  But don't allow our son or yourself to be abused.  I know this is hard, and may even get harder before it gets better, but trust in the Lord.  "God can give back more than we lost." Curtis Castillo

 

No one enters into marriage with the idea that it will be a trial or an adversity, but some marriages are very difficult.  They can be an adversity for both partners.  But that doesn't mean that partners in such marriages should give up on each other!  Consider these words from Elder Orson F. Whitney:

 

"No pain that we suffer, no trial that we experience is wasted . . . All that we suffer and all that we endure, especially when we endure it patiently, builds up our characters, purifies our hearts, expands our souls, and makes us more tender and charitable.   . . . It is through sorrow and suffering, toil and tribulation that we gain the education that we came here to acquire."

[Guest]

I find it curious that I keep hearing stories of other marriages and I'm continually reminded of the trials my wife and I have had as well.  In different ways, from different perspectives, and levels, I believe my wife and I have had all these experiences as well.

 

No marriage is perfect.  No couple is perfect.  The primary characteristic that must be developed in a marriage is not faith, hope, or charity.  It is unselfishness.  And it MUST go both ways.  If only one party is unselfish, this will lead to abuse.  If neither is unselfish, it will lead to divorce.  Hopefully, as you develop faith, hope, and charity together as a couple, you will also develop unselfishness.  Service to one another is the key.  What are you doing to share one another's burdens that they may be light?

 

As far as divorce, my policy has always been abuse, addiction, adultery, or a serious felony.  Abuse and addiction can be very vague and therefore difficult to determine if it is serious enough to warrant a divorce.  So, I warn that a very high bar must be set for these two.  If you value the institution of marriage, it must be a high priority.  The bar you set for the standards of divorce must be equally high.  So far, from the minimal detail in your post, I can't tell.  But the fact that the title of the OP was "Can't keep living like this" means that you at least need help.  And I say that hopefully.

 

It is unrealistic to expect two "stubborn" people (as you've called yourselves) to get along all the time.  So, you (both) need to either lessen the stubbornness or lower your standard for "getting along".  I'd suggest a healthy dose of both.  And don't expect this to happen overnight.  Such characteristics have been learned over a lifetime.  It may take a lifetime to unlearn them.

 

I'd suggest doing several healthy activities together.  One such thing may be to read marriage books together.  Discuss them.  The details of how to do that are the mystery.  It must be a solution that is right for you and your situation.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

No marriage is perfect.  No couple is perfect.  The primary characteristic that must be developed in a marriage is not faith, hope, or charity.  It is unselfishness.  And it MUST go both ways.  If only one party is unselfish, this will lead to abuse.  If neither is unselfish, it will lead to divorce.  

 

I love this.  I have long thought selfishness, not lack of communication (as others have said) is the biggest problem in marriage.    I hadn't taken it to the next level though to see the connection that if only one of the partners is unselfish, that can lead to abuse.  I totally agree, however. 

[Guest]

I love this.  I have long thought selfishness, not lack of communication (as others have said) is the biggest problem in marriage.    I hadn't taken it to the next level though to see the connection that if only one of the partners is unselfish, that can lead to abuse.  I totally agree, however. 

 

It doesn't have to lead to abuse.

 

The first element is LOVE your spouse as you love yourself.  That pure love that brings your spouse and yourself closer to Christ.  Unselfishness is LOVE.  BUT, there are many ways to be unselfish.  Giving somebody else your food for the day is unselfish.  But, is it loving others as you love yourself?  It might be that giving him your food would lead him or you farther from Christ - for example, giving him food would make him full today but then he'd still be hungry tomorrow; and giving him food would make you hungry today which at this point in your life would lead you farther from Christ.  So... it could be that giving him food is not the unselfish act that leads you both to Christ.  It could be that giving him a fishing pole is the unselfish act that could lead you both to Christ.  Make sense?

 

As far as the OP... the husband needs help.  A loving wife would help her husband get through this that he might be brought closer to Christ.  Go on your knees and ask God what's the best way to do this.  The Celestial Room of the temple could be a good place to plead for His guidance and mercy.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

It doesn't have to lead to abuse.

 

I agree.  

[Guest]

Would you feel better if I said "tends to lead..."?  Sheesh!  You'd think I was writing a sermon for General Conference.

[Guest]

Would you feel better if I said "tends to lead..."?  Sheesh!  You'd think I was writing a sermon for General Conference.

 

Feel better about what?

[Backroads]

Allowing your husband to treat you and your son so abysmally is not bringing him closer to Christ. I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. Pray and seek counseling at least for yourself.

[Guest MormonGator]

 

 

Because of my background, I have very little tolerance for "bad tempers", spanking and yelling.  

Oh it's all of us Lit. A sort temper, spanking and yelling-they make a fool out of you eventually.   

 

And believe me, when the Canadians miss a goal or the Gators an easy play, I can out yell anyone, so I guess I shouldn't talk. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by MormonGator

[mdfxdb]

With his anger, my son gets stuck in the middle. As much as I dislike spanking, his first reaction when angry is to hit. Not slap or do anything hard, but spank his bottom (he's 18 months). I've expressed my discomfort with this. I feel he's too rough with our son. He has zero patience for him and treats him like he's much older, not a baby. I just feel like we are constantly on eggshells around him.

I don't know if I can stick around anymore. I'm tired of this. I'm tired of his short temper. I'm tired of him always being angry. I'm tired of it always being everyone else's fault. He refuses to take responsibility for any of his actions. I'm tired of my son being thrown in the middle of this. I'm tired of the garbage he watches and listens to, and how he exposes it to our boy without a care. I'm tired of the way he speaks to me. I'm not perfect either. I lose my temper with him. I'll say mean things to him as well. I'm not always calm and collected myself. I snap at him when I feel I'm being stretched too thin. We're both conflicting, not just him. I just feel like a perfectly good day can go sour so quickly because of his temper. 

Thanks for reading.

 I'm not sure how corporal punishment benefits a 18 month old.....

 

You need to set some boundaries.  Real things he needs to change, or get help with.  Also, look in the mirror, and look closely.  Are you giving your best?

 

I wouldn't leave/bring up the big D word at this point, but I would at a minimum seek out marital counseling from a qualified professional.  If he wont go, then you should go for yourself.  Decide now what your deal breakers are, and make sure they are good ones.  Make sure to communicate your deal breakers with your husband.  

[heinzlet]

I know from personal experience that when we rely on the Lord at times like these, He can help us. No matter how bitter or hopeless it may seem, I know that the Lord can change our natures. Pray like never before, and strengthen your testimony. Let His light not only heal you but those around you. He's the only way, and I know, and I've seen how people have changed because of Him. Be strong and of good courage, I'll be praying for you and for your family.

 

All best,

Alberto

[Latter-Day Marriage]

Have you talked with your Bishop about this?  Would he be willing to go to a marriage counselor?

[LRK99]

Thanks for your input, everyone. On a regular day, I don't think about leaving him or leaving the marriage, but often it gets to the point where I'm so tired of dealing with him, I think about it. I would much rather work through our differences.

I have mentioned marital counseling more than once to him. He's not much of a fan and thinks he already knows what's wrong (which typically revolves around me and not "us"). "If you would just do this...", etc. Every fight and disagreement is because of me. He won't take credit for his role, which is by far the most frustrating thing.

He has the entire week off for Christmas. Yesterday morning, while I was trying to feed our toddler, clean up the kitchen mess from the big breakfast I made, trying to get my own food together, and dealing with a puppy who was pooping all over the floor, my husband began complaining about how I never do any chores around here and what a mess the place was. He started vacuuming, going off about how I just let things get so messy, etc. After about 5 minutes, I began to tune him out as I had other things to deal with. My toddler was now being clingy and whiny and wanted to be held while I tried to clean up after he ate, and I was putting the puppy away in her crate. His complaining probably lasted a good 30 minutes. After, he was angry at me for ignoring him and not acknowledging him, stating I just never listen. I simply told him I heard everything he said, but was not in the mood to discuss it right away. He told me I couldn't take criticism well. I told him what he was doing was not criticism, but complaining. If he really has a concern about what I do or don't do around here, it would be best to wait for a time where everything is calm, I'm not multi-tasking, he's calm, and we can discuss it like adults. Otherwise, he would not be receiving a desired response.

I feel he does this often. Brings things up at the worst times, expecting me to drop everything and apologize for my flaws. We could be having a discussion about car batteries and he'll find a way to sneak in some sort of insult or point out a flaw of mine. I simply shut down and don't want to be around him when he does this, which to him makes him feel like I'm not listening or acknowledging anything he says.

Anyway, I know I have my flaws too. Most days I really DON'T want to be around him. I don't want to fight. I don't want to listen to him. Often, I'll admit, I do start ignoring him and getting defensive. I know there's more I can do on my part. I know I can be more affectionate with him. I used to be very affectionate and always paid attention to him, but I've been staying away from him lately. I'm too exhausted to get into anything. I don't serve him as I used to. 

Again, I appreciate the advice. I will pray and seek guidance from the Lord. I will step up and do my part to be a better wife. I love how many of you mentioned selfishness as being a main culprit of divorce. I agree. I've become selfish. We're both stubborn and selfish. Often I feel I'm giving so much of myself to our son, he's been cut out. I can't say if that has triggered his behavior, or his behavior has triggered me to stay away from him. Like he says, we don't have much of a marriage anymore. We just live together. 

Okay, back to Christmas. Merry Christmas, everyone! This is the only time I've had to respond, so it's out now. :)

[yjacket]

Yesterday morning, while I was trying to feed our toddler, clean up the kitchen mess from the big breakfast I made, trying to get my own food together, and dealing with a puppy who was pooping all over the floor, my husband began complaining about how I never do any chores around here and what a mess the place was. 

When children enter into a marriage a lot of additional stress can accumulate. It is my personal belief that as a society and culture we have completely forgotten how to parent. How many times to people say STTE "raising 2 kids is soooo hard"!  Yet just two generations ago people were raising 8+ kids.

 

Up until a child is 2 they are the center of the universe, simply because they have to be b/c if they aren't bad things happen to them. From 18+ months on is the time to start training a child that they are no longer the center of the universe. The person that is the center of the universe is the spouse.

 

A child can easily be potty trained @ 2, trained to pick up toys, etc. can speak, etc. Once they are walking they can start obeying simple commands and can be enlisted in helping around the house.

 

If your husband complains about chores . . .well there is an easy fix to that.  Show him that you've got the house handled, which doesn't mean you have to be doing it all, but that you are in charge of it.  I bet if you had a chore todo list of things that need to get done and he starts to complain about chores, just show him your list. Well, honey this is my list of things to do today, I really could use your help doing xyz (clean bathrooms, vacuum, etc.).

 

As for the toddler being clingy and whining . . .I'd put a stop to that real fast.  The terrible two's are really more like 18 months to 3 years. As soon as any of my kids get clingy or whining, they are going down and to their room or in a corner, because sometimes Mom and Dad have more important things to do than hold a whining child and I will not hold a child like that.

 

The great thing is that when my little toddler gets fussy, she will actually go sit herself in a corner without me telling her! I love it!

 

Seriously, for raising adults, John Rosemond.

https://www.facebook.com/johnkrosemond/?fref=ts

Absolutely IMO no better. Read his books: http://www.amazon.com/Making-Terrible-Twos-Terrific-Rosemond/dp/0836228111

 

You can attend his parenting classes, the guy literally saved my marriage and my wife's mental sanity.