Elder Bednar - Gift of Discernment


Guest LiterateParakeet
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest LiterateParakeet

This is the best information on the gift of discernment I think I have ever heard.  Besides the great counsel on discernment, I love that Elder Bednar didn't go for "some generic answer" (his words) and the reasons he stated for not doing so.  

 

https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2015-05-2003-elder-and-sister-bednar-gift-of-discernment?lang=eng

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest, I'm a little disappointed.  He said, "and those are the steps he can take to try and seek for that (gift)".  So I went back to hear again what the steps were.  He never gave any.  I wish...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest LiterateParakeet

The way I understood it was that the step the young man needed to take was to work to be in tune with the Spirit, and through the gift of discernment, he then would know what to do.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Debbie Downer moment: my sociopath SIL, who paints herself as the perfect Mormon, uses her "gift of discernment" to manipulate an argument and insist she's right. "I have the gift of discernment and I know that it's x way." 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Debbie Downer moment: my sociopath SIL, who paints herself as the perfect Mormon, uses her "gift of discernment" to manipulate an argument and insist she's right. "I have the gift of discernment and I know that it's x way." 

 

And people don't just laugh out loud at her?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest LiterateParakeet

Debbie Downer moment: my sociopath SIL, who paints herself as the perfect Mormon, uses her "gift of discernment" to manipulate an argument and insist she's right. "I have the gift of discernment and I know that it's x way."

People could respond to her by saying (not unkindly), "Hmmm, really because that's not what I'm getting from the Spirit."

That would completely be the truth because everyone feels she's lying...thus the Spirit is giving you other guidance.

The way Elder Bedard explained it I thought, isn't that the Holy Ghost? Then, oh I get it now...the gift is to have His constant influence, and the sensitivity to listen, see and act. Therefore it's a gift all members should seek. No reason ALL the church members in your family can't have it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm not understanding the gifts of the Spirit.  My understanding was that the first step is to receive the Holy Ghost, then we "seek after" the gifts of the Spirit. But I was never clear on what we do to "seek" them other than pray.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest LiterateParakeet

Maybe I'm not understanding the gifts of the Spirit. My understanding was that the first step is to receive the Holy Ghost, then we "seek after" the gifts of the Spirit. But I was never clear on what we do to "seek" them other than pray.

That is something I have wondered about as well. I think now, that we seek them by learning about them. I really enjoyed researching the gift of discernment last night. And got some new understanding as to what it means (there are different aspects). I will continue to study it, and pray for it. Then I will keep my eyes open so to speak for ways that it begins to manifest in my life. I will thank Heavenly Father for those, and repeat . . .

Perhaps I could add a fast. My point though is that we need to do more than just ask. You know the old saying the Lord can't guide your foot steps if you don't move your feet.

Back to Elder Bednar, I suspect it was the Spirit of Discernment that caused him to answer the way he did rather than giving a more generic answer. I believe the young man needed the answer he received and not the generic response.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carb, I'm thinking there's more than just praying (though that's important, perhaps most important).  I think if we desire a gift, we'll study it, learn as much as we can about how it's (been) used, how it works, etc.  We also will learn to have faith in the Lord as it relates to the gift - that he has given the gift before, that he's the source of the gift, that if it's his will, we really can receive and use the gift, but that it must be to serve others according to his will.  As we ponder these things, and pray to know his will, and receive the gift (if it's his will), we increase our chances.

 

That's one of the benefits of the video - Elder Bednar explains the workings of this gift.  Without that understanding, one really doesn't know what one is asking for, how to recognize whether one has it, what to do with it once one gets it, etc.

 

(Well LP just stole most of my thunder, but two witnesses, blah blah)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People could respond to her by saying (not unkindly), "Hmmm, really because that's not what I'm getting from the Spirit."

Or... "if you have the gift if discernment then how come you can't discern that we're all rolling our eyes at you behind your back?"

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just like the term "free agency" cannot be found in the scriptures, neither can the terms, "gift of discernment" and "spirit of discernment.".  What you will find in the scriptures is the “gift of the discerning of spirits. “ I believe the reason for this is because when it comes right down to it, "discernment" is all about discerning between both good and evil spirits.

 

The scriptures teach that everything that is good comes from our Heavenly Father and everything evil comes from Satan.  When we receive any revelation or prompting to do good, it comes from God, and he uses not only the Holy Spirit, but primarily messengers to do the prompting for good.  When Satan tries to influence us, he does it himself also, but primarily uses evil and unclean spirits to prompt us to evil, or to deceive us. 

 

One thing that I rarely hear talked about when it comes to increasing one's ability to discern is to gain knowledge.  Joseph Smith was so exorcised over the false spirits the Latter-day Saints were listening to that he wrote an editorial published in the Times and Seasons and included in the History of the Church, Vol. 4:571-581 that was all about discerning between good and evil spirits.

 

Here is a selection of pertinent quotes from that editorial. It can be accessed here http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/TryTheSpirits.pdf

 

There always did, in every age, seem to be a lack of intelligence pertaining to this subject. Spirits of all kinds have been manifested, in every age, and almost amongst all people.

- - - -

One great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence, etc,, and imagine that when there is anything like power, revelation, or vision manifested, that it must be of God.

- - - -

Or who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as "no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God," so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysterious operations of his devices;

- - - -

,,,Nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God.

- - - -

As we have noticed before, the great difficulty lies in the ignorance of the nature of spirits, of the laws by which they are governed, and the signs by which they may be known;

- - - -

It would seem also, that wicked spirits have their bounds, limits, and laws by which they are governed or controlled,

- - - -

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has also had its false spirits; and as it is made up of all those different sects professing every variety of opinion, and having been under the influence of so many kinds of spirits, it is not to be wondered at if there should be found among us false spirits.

 

 

Here are a few other quotes on the subject.

 

 

Wisdom cannot be disassociated from discernment, but it involves some other factors, and its applications are rather more specific. Wisdom is sometimes defined as sound judgment and a high degree of knowledge. I define wisdom as being the beneficent application of knowledge in decision.

Elder Stephen L. Richards

CR, April 1950, Pgs. 162

 

A man, or a woman, desiring to know the will of God, and having an opportunity to know it, will apply their hearts to this wisdom until it becomes easy and familiar to them, and they will love to do good instead of evil. They will love to promote every good principle, and will soon abhor everything that tends to evil; they will gain light and knowledge to discern between evil and good.

The person that applies his heart to wisdom, and seeks diligently for understanding, will grow to be mighty in Israel.

Brigham Young

JD 3:363-4

 

 

...I have discovered that the adversary's agencies, in their promptings, are usually of an urging, crowding, hurrying nature, while the Spirit of the Lord and his agencies are always of a quiet, sweet, peaceful and convincing character,—so that after we have done away with all the excuses, all the alibis that usually support our experiences, we can discover which is the right spirit.

Patriarch Hyrum G. Smith

CR, Oct 1931, Pg. 27

 

The day is fast approaching when the nature of spiritual influences (evil spirits) will be fully recognized and understood and when man, by listening to the teachings of God's Spirit and Priesthood and obtaining a correct knowledge of the laws which govern them, will be freed from the power which in the days of his ignorance they have wielded over him. . . .

 

George Q. Cannon

Gospel Truth

Pg. 500

 

 

 

Joseph Smith said that knowledge was power and knowledge was salvation, and that the first attribute of God was knowledge. He also said that the reason that Satan has so much power is because he has more knowledge than we do. Satan's number one tool he uses to fool everyone, especially Latter-day Saints is deception.

These evil "angels" use deception as their main tool of destruction. They simulate all that is good. They urge the satisfaction of sensual appetites. In the words of Brigham Young, they tell a hundred truths so that the one lie may be accepted. Sometimes they may come as angels of light, in borrowed or stolen raiment. Always they fail to reveal themselves as they are.

Elder John A. Widtsoe

Evidences and Reconciliations, Pg. 109

 

 

If you have knowledge of the Gospel, not just the basic stuff you hear in Sunday school, but the advanced stuff you learn from the GA's, you will be able to spot falsehood at the drop of a hat. One thing that has enhanced my understanding of the scriptures is my study of the writings of the apostles and prophets. There are a number free PDF books that can be downloaded, as well as all 26 volumes of the Journal of Discourses and the seven volumes of the History of the Church. In addition to that are all the general conference reports ever published from 1880, and all the early church magazines. If you want to download them, go to archive.org.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest LiterateParakeet

Just like the term "free agency" cannot be found in the scriptures, neither can the terms, "gift of discernment" and "spirit of discernment.".  What you will find in the scriptures is the “gift of the discerning of spirits. “ I believe the reason for this is because when it comes right down to it, "discernment" is all about discerning between both good and evil spirits.

 

The term "gift of discernment" is not in the scriptures, but "discernment" and variations of "discern" are abundantly.  There is a great list here:

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/discernment-gift-of?lang=eng#

We know that "wisdom" and "faith" are gifts of the Spirit too, but we won't find references in the scriptures to "gift of wisdom" or "gift of faith".  

 

I'm not disagreeing that discernment CAN be about discerning between good and evil spirits, I'm just saying it is more than that.  Discernment is a gift that can be used in many different way.  Elder Bednar outlined some important ways.  I like what he said because I don't recall hearing it describes so plainly before (though perhaps I did, I just wasn't looking for it at the time.)

Discernment of spirits can also mean seeing the Spirits of those who are dead.  I've known a few people who had this gift.  A couple were people who worked in nursing homes, who knew when someone's time on earth was nearly done, because visitors from beyond the veil would be seen in their room.  I would love to have THAT gift, though seeking it feels like seeking for a sign, so I dare not ask.

 

I do feel comfortable asking for the Gift of Discernment though, which I define the way Elder Bednar did.  I think that is a gift we should all seek. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Debbie Downer moment: my sociopath SIL, who paints herself as the perfect Mormon, uses her "gift of discernment" to manipulate an argument and insist she's right. "I have the gift of discernment and I know that it's x way." 

 

Has anyone ever responded back, "Yes, you do, and I do to...it is called the Holy Ghost...we all have it...and your wrong."  ;)

 

EDIT: Word of caution, a great way to increase contention that statement is, so be very cautious.  :D

 

And people don't just laugh out loud at her?

 

If you aren't afraid Vort, as in the words of Yoda, "You will be, you will be." (emphasized in a soft scratchy voice since you can't hear me speaking).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anddenex said this...but everyone has the "gift" of discernment.

 

One thing that people tend to misunderstand, methinks, about "gifts" of the spirit is that they are given to all freely as needed. God is no respecter of persons. When it comes to things like faith or belief there are some (some I've discussed this directly with) who believe that some are just randomly given the gift of greater faith or belief and others just aren't and there's nothing to be done about that.

 

But we know that faith and belief are choices. They are gifts that are granted to anyone for the taking.

 

I wouldn't (and couldn't) argue that it comes as easily to all as to the next. That is clearly not the case. But faith, belief, discernment, wisdom, prophesy, etc...these gifts are ones that are not only available to anyone who will seek them, but are necessary for each to seek for the sake of our eternal welfare.

 

I believe all gifts are free for the taking upon need. Not all have the need for all gifts however. So some of us may never experience the gift of tongues, for example. But if we don't experience the gift of discernment...that's not good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if we don't experience the gift of discernment...that's not good.

I was mostly with you until this line.  And it may just be a semantic issue again.

 

When I think of "discernment" I usually think in terms of (as Jojo said) "discerning of Spirits".  i.e. recognizing when something isn't right.  Or if what you're hearing is not of God.  If that is the defintion you're going for, I'd tend to agree.  Everyone should seek after that kind of guidance and understanding.

 

Elder Bednar, however, talked about it being a gift of hidden knowledge.  I believe his words were "know things that you would otherwise not know."  Whether it is temporal or spiritual, I wonder why this is not wisdom or faith or prophecy.  If it is about people and their private situation (as Bednar spoke of) is this something we all need so much that it is "a bad thing" if we don't have it?

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was mostly with you until this line.  And it may just be a semantic issue again.

 

When I think of "discernment" I usually think in terms of (as Jojo said) "discerning of Spirits".  i.e. recognizing when something isn't right.  Or if what you're hearing is not of God.  If that is the defintion you're going for, I'd tend to agree.  Everyone should seek after that kind of guidance and understanding.

 

Elder Bednar, however, talked about it being a gift of hidden knowledge.  I believe his words were "know things that you would otherwise not know."  Whether it is temporal or spiritual, I wonder why this is not wisdom or faith or prophecy.  If it is about people and their private situation (as Bednar spoke of) is this something we all need so much that it is "a bad thing" if we don't have it?

 

I'm not sure where you'd not be with me on this line. A. I meant the first term. B. Even if we go with the second, all things of God are only known by the discerning of spirits -- including when your friends are guiding you towards wickedness. Being oblivious to this is decidedly and plainly harmful.

 

Moreover, our work and our glory is God's, which is the eternal life of our fellowman. Can we pursue this work and glory without the discerning of spirits as described by Elder Bednar? How can we empathize, sustain, support, stand up against, etc., anyone without this?

 

I'd stand by it's imperative nature even going with the narrow definition. And I stand by it being available to anyone for the seeking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my prayers I always pray for the Spirit to be with me.  And throughout my life it is often hard to know if I actually do have the Spirit.  There have been times when the Spirit has left me, and I could plainly discern that awful feeling.  But, honestly, I sometimes am not aware if I actually have the Spirit with me.  In my dealings with my family, friends, and even those I don't personally know, I want the Spirit.  And, if we have the Spirit of the Holy Ghost with us, doesn't that include the Spirit of Discernment?  I would certainly hope so.  But, since reading this thread, I have thought maybe I should start to also request the Spirit of Discernment in my prayers along with the overall gift of the Spirit.

 

I had a personal experience in actually requesting a specific spiritual gift where I received the gift almost immediately.  It had to do with Family History.  I prayed for a spiritual experience with Family HIstory, and I received a spiritual experience that involved a deceased family member within minutes of my prayer.  I believe it was given me because it was a need that my deceased family member needed in order to progress.  I don't feel I received the experience because I was "special", but because there was a need.

Edited by classylady
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's up to us to ask for the specific gifts we need, primarily because we don't know. The Lord (as the scriptures state) knows our needs before we ask. Therefore it striked me that asking the Lord for the gifts He would have us have is the best course.

Of course that isn't a set rule to live by. Maybe the Spirit is guiding one to ask for a specific thing. So follow the Spirit. But I don't think we'll be deprived for failure to ask specifically if our we ask humbly and sincerely for the Lord's will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator

Everyone is terrified of her. 

 I'd never let anyone control people like that. What is she going to do? Assault you? If she does, call the police. 

We had an issue like that in my family. A manipulative, controlling drama queen.  I told her-out loud and in front of all 25+ people "No one is afraid of you, knock it off" with much harder language than that. Afterwards, people clapped for me. 

 

Might work for you too. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have often wondered if I hadn't asked for the spiritual experience regarding Family History if I would have received the experience that I had.  I asked, and I received.  But, at the same time, there was a need from the deceased family member.  If the need wasn't there, would I have received?  I have my own thoughts on that.  Does this also apply to requesting Spiritual Gifts?  If we ask, will we receive?  Will we receive only if there's a need?  Will we receive only if we are prepared to receive the Gift?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have often wondered if I hadn't asked for the spiritual experience regarding Family History if I would have received the experience that I had.  I asked, and I received.  But, at the same time, there was a need from the deceased family member.  If the need wasn't there, would I have received?  I have my own thoughts on that.  Does this also apply to requesting Spiritual Gifts?  If we ask, will we receive?  Will we receive only if there's a need?  Will we receive only if we are prepared to receive the Gift?

 

I might add...per my previous post... I don't mean to imply that I think your asking was wrong by any means. I just know that we cannot figure out (as mortals) what we really need by way of gifts. But we can all ask that the Lord bless of with whatever gifts He knows will be best for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest LiterateParakeet

In my prayers I always pray for the Spirit to be with me.  And throughout my life it is often hard to know if I actually do have the Spirit.  There have been times when the Spirit has left me, and I could plainly discern that awful feeling.  But, honestly, I sometimes am not aware if I actually have the Spirit with me.  In my dealings with my family, friends, and even those I don't personally know, I want the Spirit.  And, if we have the Spirit of the Holy Ghost with us, doesn't that include the Spirit of Discernment?  I would certainly hope so.  But, since reading this thread, I have thought maybe I should start to also request the Spirit of Discernment in my prayers along with the overall gift of the Spirit.

 

I had a personal experience in actually requesting a specific spiritual gift where I received the gift almost immediately.  It had to do with Family History.  I prayed for a spiritual experience with Family HIstory, and I received a spiritual experience that involved a deceased family member within minutes of my prayer.  I believe it was given me because it was a need that my deceased family member needed in order to progress.  I don't feel I received the experience because I was "special", but because there was a need.

 

I think that we need to ask for specific things just as you did with Family History.    You said you asked because there was a need, that is good, there are needs all around you.  For example, if you are working on the Gift of Discernment (which is different than the Gift of the Holy Ghost that we receive at baptism.  Discernment is one of the gifts that the Holy Ghost can give us.)  So say you are going Visiting Teaching...you could pray before you go to discern the needs of your sisters.  Elder Bednar talked about how his wife always prays before Sacrament meeting to be led to those in need, and she gets those promptings regularly.

 

You see when you ask a generic, "Help me have the Spirit" you don't know for sure if you have it....but when you asked for something very specific about Family History your need was met.  My experience has been that Heavenly Father almost always gives direction when I ask for very specific things.  

A great talk on this topic is How to Receive Spiritual Gifts by Lane Johnson.  In that article Bro. Johnson says, "It seems clear then that all who desire exaltation in the celestial kingdom of our Father must receive spiritual gifts."  

 

And D&C 46:8-9 says "Seek earnestly the best gifts of the Holy Spirit always remembering for what they are given."

 

Heavenly Father wants us to seek these gifts.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share