Sins & depression


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The counsel of those who represent the Lord's will to us is back up enough.

 

 

The only thing I'm passionate about is decrying ridiculous fanatical logic that both defies actual logic and wisdom and goes against the counsel we are given by the leaders of the church.

 

As to defending psychiatry as an overall practice...I'm more, "meh".

 

As I've said, you have some ideas that are reasonable mixed into all the over-the-topness of it all. There is evil in all the world. Clearly there are evil intentions in psychiatry and medicine -- also in the food industry, the auto industry, the clothing industry, etc., etc. There is evil everywhere. It's simply unreasonable to presume from that a status of absolute no-good-therein.

 

The bottom line is this: Anyone who's trying to make such a ludicrous claim that medicine doesn't help when it comes to mental and/or emotional disorders has clearly never known anyone with an extreme disorder both on and off their medicine.

 

You may be right that some mental illnesses may be treatable with drugs – if – those illnesses are physiological in nature. I still will say that man made chemicals are not the answer, well, not the answer the overwhelming majority of the time. There are natural remedies for depression that I would take, specifically, St. Johns Wort and DL phenylalanine (DLPA). This herb is recognized throughout Europe, especially Germany, for treating depression as is DLPA.

 

However, let's take a closer look at Elder Holand's advice.

 

If things continue to be debilitating, seek the advice of reputable people with certified training, professional skills, and good values. Be honest with them about your history and your struggles. Prayerfully and responsibly consider the counsel they give and the solutions they prescribe.

 

 

Note the areas I've highlighted. I fully support cognitive therapy from “reputable people” who have “good values.” We are to prayerfully consider their counsel and what they prescribe.  If what they are telling you is bunk, then find another doctor. This is right in line with Brigham Young's counsel when he said.

 

Who is the real doctor? That man who knows by the Spirit of revelation what ails an individual, and by the same Spirit knows what medicine to administer. That is the real doctor, the others are quacks.

JD 15:226

 

 

I have a serious problem with counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists who disregard the role of our spirit, the Holy Spirit, and evil spirits when it comes to mental illnesses. A psychiatrist's idea of treating someone is shovel out the drugs (for which many get a kick-back from big pharma), all of which have very serious and dangerous side effects. Have you ever read the warnings included with them?

 

I also have a major problem with LDS counselors who “Mormonize” their secular education. They are enamored by their secular education in psychology, and psychology denies the existence of God, the Savior, the Holy Spirit, and Satan. That is the flawed foundation I was referring to and LDS counselors are taken in by it. They try and use some secular principles that are contradictory to the Gospel. I know because more than one LDS counselor, who lacked any discernment whatsoever, put back my recovery from porn because of a bad diagnosis and advice.

 

Here are a couple of interesting quotes from an LDS psychologist, Dr. Genevieve De Hoyos.

 

Mormonizing of Secular Models

Early in my life, I filtered everything I read and heard through my belief in God and the awareness of a plan of salvation. At that time I could look at and explain my reality through these emerging "Mormonized" models, with no sense of dissonance.

I am sure I still do that. But I can no longer feel totally comfortable doing it. This is because so many of us are Mormonizing any and all models even when these models are based on basic assumptions that are totally inimical to Mormon thinking. When I hear other professionals present their Mormonized versions of Humanism, of Behaviorism, and of the Conflict school, totally ignoring their false theoretical underpinnings, I shudder-I shudder because I strongly suspect that I do the same. I have no problem with the story of the broken mirror which explains the presence of some truth everywhere in the world. However, by now I feel that, as a group of Mormon psychotherapists who believe that the whole truth has been given to us through the gospel, we could do better than simply distorting secular knowledge to make it fit, one way or another into our idea of truth.

Psychotherapy and the Gospel

AMCAP JOURNAL I VOL. 17, NO. 1-1991, Pgs. 64-65

 

2. "Mormonizing" Secular Models

In this subgroup, we find a few AMCAP writers who follow a very common practice in order to avoid feelings of dissonance. They have studied a particular model and have found it attractive. By ignoring inimical assumptions, or emphasizing a few specific aspects of the gospel, they integrate this secular model into their religious thinking. Now they are at peace, feeling secure that their work reflects both good secular therapy and gospel thinking.

Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial Therapy: A Mormon Therapeutic Model

AMCAP JOURNAL/VOL. 12, NO. 2-1986, Pg. 118

 

 

I trust secular education when it comes to the physical sciences, but when it comes to psychology, I take it was a couple pounds of salt. If all secular education is not filtered through the Holy Spirit, then those who trust it will be deceived. They will be , “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

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I still will say that man made chemicals are not the answer, well, not the answer the overwhelming majority of the time. There are natural remedies for depression that I would take, specifically, St. Johns Wort and DL phenylalanine (DLPA). This herb is recognized throughout Europe, especially Germany, for treating depression as is DLPA.

 

In my opinion the entire natural=better thing is a whole lot of bunk. There is simply no validity to the thinking whatsoever. Some natural things are useful. But that doesn't have anything to do with better or worse. Better or worse stands alone with each item. Some man made things are harmful. Some natural things are deadly. Natural has no bearing whatsoever on the good/bad of a thing. 

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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Guest MormonGator

In my opinion the entire natural=better thing is a whole lot of bunk. There is simply no validity to the thinking whatsoever. Some natural things are useful. But that doesn't have anything to do with better or worse. Better or worse stands alone with each item. Some man made things are harmful. Some natural things are deadly. Natural has no bearing whatsoever on the good/bad of a thing. 

 When people say that the natural world is "peaceful" I always ask if they've seen Nat Geo Wild. 

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Psychiatrists often treat patients with psychotic disorders who are religious or spiritual in some way. Most scientifically trained psychiatrists and other mental health professionals believe in a scientific, secular world-view. Sigmund Freud thought that religion caused neurotic and possibly even psychotic symptoms. In Future of an Illusion, Freud (1927) wrote:

"Religion would thus be the universal obsessional neurosis of humanity... If this view is right, it is to be supposed that a turning-away from religion is bound to occur with the fatal inevitability of a process of growth If, on the one hand, religion brings with it obsessional restrictions, exactly as an individual obsessional neurosis does, on the other hand, it comprises a system of wishful illusions together with a disavowal of reality, such as we find in an isolated form nowhere else but amentia, in a state of blissful hallucinatory confusion"

Thus, Freud thought that religious beliefs were rooted in fantasy and illusion and could be responsible for the development of psychosis (although Freud never directly attributed psychosis to religion, only neurosis). This negative view of religion in the mental health field has continued into modern times with the writings of persons like Albert Ellis (1988) and Wendell Watters (1992), who have emphasized the irrational nature of religious beliefs and their potential harm. The personal religious beliefs of psychiatrists and psychologists (especially when compared to those of the general population) likewise reflect the secular and generally negative views toward religion that are prevalent within the profession (Neeleman & King, 1993; Curlin et al, 2005). For years, religious persons were portrayed as examples of psychiatric illness in diagnostic manuals (prior to DSM-IV) (Larson et al., 1993). This negative perspective regarding religion, however, was not based on systematic research or careful objective observation. Rather, it was based on the personal opinions and clinical experience of powerful and influential persons within the psychiatric academia, who had little experience with healthy religion.

I would probably rethink about having his picture next to our wonderful Prophet Thomas.S.Monson. Due to all the experience I have had with the mentally ill there seems to be several different problems that contribute to mental illness:

1/ nutrition: conspiring men and greed in the last days have ruined the omega ratio of 1 omega 3 to 3 omega 6 and now things like meat and diary have ratios of 1 omega 3 to 24 omega 6. As a result this has causeed problems with the brain making amino acids which are crucial for neurotransmitter / brain health. That's just the tip of the harmful food to the brain ice burg. Try to drink raw milk with raw honey every day it has tryptophan which is needed to produce serotonin.

2/ Psychological trauma or psychological problems play a part in mental illness.

3/ Spiritual weaknesses and vulnerabilities

4/ Evil spirit intervention and being possessed by unclean and evil spirits.

5/ Toxins being sprayed in the air and in the water etc

When we are at our lowest this is when evil spirits love to attack us and possess us (evil spirits cause most of the over whelming feelings and compulsions that people experience) Please remember when that really dark dread and hopelessness starts to engulf you CAST OUT THE EVIL SPIRITS FIRST, THEN PUT ON HYMNS, PRAY, READ THE SCRIPTURES, GO TALK TO SOMEONE, GET A BLESSING, RING A FRIEND, GO FOR A WALK AND EAT GOOD FOOD.

Good Luck and God Bless!

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Those are some heavy accusations to make about a whole discipline.

 

When I was searching for a therapist, it wasn't hard to find some who advertised that they were respectful of and worked within different religious beliefs. I've never heard from any friend or acquaintance who has used either a psychologist or psychiatrist, say that their religion was said to be a psychotic symptom. 

Edited by Eowyn
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Guest LiterateParakeet

Those are some heavy accusations to make about a whole discipline.

When I was searching for a therapist, it wasn't hard to find some who advertised that they were respectful of and worked within different religious beliefs. I've never heard from any friend or acquaintance who has used either a psychologist or psychiatrist, say that their religion was said to be a psychotic symptom.

I agree. My therapist, who I think is atheist, has always been supportive of my religious beliefs even when I was questioning or ranting...he enever ever tried to undermine my beliefs.

Further there are plenty of Christian and LDS therapists.

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Sorry if I upset you girls!

 

The first three paragraphs of my comment was copied from an academic research paper that I should of referenced. Although myself  I tend to agree with the researchers. I know that there are well meaning counsellors out there but having completed most of a degree in psychology at University myself, there is definitely a stigma regarding religion in this field.

 

However psychiatrists and psychologists would never reveal this to you it would be called discrimination and in Australia that would look bad for the field and may even end up in litigation proceedings. In addition to this, most of  these psychiatrists and psychologists completely rule out the influence and possible possession t(by evil spirits) hat people with mental illness experience. This also applies to most LDS counsellors. Some LDS counsellors even go as far as to say that there are no such things as evil spirits?

 

Furthermore most psychiatrists and psychologist do not appropriately cover nutrition and the bowel, gut, brain connection. This is so important in fighting mental illness and people need to understand how neurotoxins in foods get through the brains blood barrier and cause problems and toxins in the brain. As a result neurotransmitters tend to misfire and become toxic and also don't get completely recycled and stay in the brain causing toxic brain problems.

 

Moreover how does an atheist help you over come your spiritual weaknesses and vulnerabilities? Most of our  weaknesses and vulnerabilities are spiritual and were with us in the pre-existence and we now have the opportunity to overcome them here on earth. How do you explain these things to a so called professional who doesn't believe in God let alone Satan and his billions of evil cronies who are trying day in and day out to destroy us and take over out tabernacles?

 

In addition to this, there are so many different toxins, aerosols, pollutants and chemicals being sprayed on us, being sold to us and being deceitfully feed to us. Have any of these professionals asked any questions about what food you eat, any food allergies, your exposure to any toxins, aerosols, chemicals, pollutants. Have any of these so called professionals referred you for a blood, allergy, skin, urine, feces and hair analysis in order to rule out any external stimuli causation for your symptoms?  

 

I'll try to give an analogy. If a house painter came to paint your whole house but only painted half of it, would you think that he was a good painter? Well we have a whole vocation / field that leave some of the most vital contributing factors out of there therapy and then they compensate by putting a big band aid on the gaping wound by giving almost everyone addictive harmful DRUGS.

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Me not on antidepressants = barely functional to suicidal

Me on antidepressants = black cloud lifted and physical and emotional vigor returned

If that's addiction, call me happily addicted. I didn't accept pharmaceutical help until my mid 30's, and I wish I had so much earlier in life.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Sorry if I upset you girls!

The first three paragraphs of my comment was copied from an academic research paper that I should of referenced.

Girl,

If you're in University yourself, then surely you know that quoting someone without giving them proper credit is bad juju. In some cases, it is called plagerizism . . . Schools take that sort of thing very seriously.

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I guess this is a "made up" topic and problem. So like I've already said, drop this subject. I've read some good responses, but most of this is arguing and telling me that this whole subject is made up because i couldn't have possibly struggled with an addiction for four years without my parents noticing. And they don't know. None of you are me. You don't know. So thanks to everyone for the help, but I'll just figure it out myself.

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And yes. I was 11 when i first stumbled upon the thing that soon became my addiction. That probably sounds fake too. But it's the truth. I was 11. Young. No one taught me it was wrong. 

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I'm so sorry Lilyflower please forgive me!

 

I was only trying to help you. I did not finish my university degree 10 years ago because it caused so much spiritual dissonance within me. My daughter suffered from depression and much rejection from some very competitive church members to the point that she went inactive. While she was inactive she started to do modelling and starved herself and drank lots of diet coke. Unfortunately as a result about a year later she was diagnosed with schizophrenia and ended up in several mental institutions,

 

When I finally got her home this is when the paranormal activity started (although looking back now, there had ben other occasions of this activity but not quiet as prevalent or frequent). I have had  enough experiences with evil spirits and casting them out that I could write a book about it. I have learnt so much about what they are capable of doing and how they have tried to destroy me since, I suppose from the day I was born. Unfortunately not many church members or psychologists know about how these evil spirits work or even know how to discern them. If they want you on medication they will leave you after you take it so you think that it works because they are  no longer are projecting the dark black feelings on you/

 

What I do know is that if you do successfully cast them out that black dark feeling that engulfs you that ( I have felt many times) will be lifted. However you will still have to work on you spiritual problems and of course your food. When you have that overwhelming desire for your addiction I have found in my observations and investigations that that is an invading evil spirit and it is projecting a lot of its own desires on you (that is why the desire for your addictions becomes so unbearable). This is when you will need someone very spiritual to cast it out of you.

 

If you do have the evil spirit successfully cast out of you this is when you will have to work hard on the conditioning and triggers that caused you to get involved in the sin in the first place. You will have to control your thoughts and nip them in the bud before they take hold. Always remember that we are spiritual beings having a mortal experience and that we have the power within us to conquer our weaknesses, especially with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

 

Our bodies are and should be in subjection to our spirits and not the other way round. However  psychiatry will tell us that we are diseased and it is our bodies fault that we have mental illness or addictions. Now I am not saying that there are no mental illnesses that cause severe cognitive problems which make it very hard for a person to have the cognitive ability to overcome evil spirit attacks / possession or addictions. However the people suffering from those problems are much more evident and they are usually never able to work or even carry out a proper comprehensive conversation.

 

I have several people in my family with mental illness, ranging from depression, bi-polar, schizophrenia to addictions. My husband was addicted to pornography since the age of seven. After I married him I sensed an evil spirit in him. He thought I was crazy but when he relapsed I told him that the only way that I would stay with him is if he had our bishop cast it out. The bishop thought that he was crazy but cast it out any way. My husband said that when they (the evil spirits left)  it was like a angry beehive had left his chest and the bishop said that he heard the evil spirits leave with a loud whoosh. That was three years over ago and he has been addiction free every since. 

 

We also have been able to help his son (my step son) who has suffered from the same addiction since he was fourteen. He had a similar experience when they were cast out of him. However this is not a free pass you then need to work on your conditioning, thoughts and triggers but it gives you a fighting chance if you really want that chance?

 

I'm sorry again if I have upset you, may God Bless you!

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