Is this a reason to get divorced?

[exmisionero92]

Hey I'm new to this forum.  This has probably been asked before, but not by me.

 

About 18 months ago I confessed to my wife that I have been viewing pornography on and off for years.  She was understandably angry, hurt, disgusted etc.  She varies between love and kindness towards me or revulsion and anger.  She has discussed me moving out and eventually divorcing many times, at other times she states exactly the opposite.

 

I have been to ARP meetings for the past year, sought individual counseling, professional and through my wonderful bishop.  We even went to marriage counseling together. But since this is my fault/problem she feels she doesn't need to be there.

 

I have made progress and have been able to overcome temptations that have plagued me for years.

 

However, this whole repentance process has had me up and down emotionally.  I have had some serious bouts of depression.  But we have a large family and I don't have time to slow down.

 

I feel that my efforts should be enough for her to stop threatening me with divorce.

 

[Vort]

FWIW, I agree with you. She should not threaten you with divorce. But my opinion will get you no discount at all on your Starbucks hot chocolate.

[yjacket]

I feel that my efforts should be enough for her to stop threatening me with divorce.

Throwing the word divorce around in a marriage is playing with a nuclear weapon; even though at times one might feel justified in saying it because of anger, hurt, distrust, etc. It is never appropriate to use-unless one actually is planning on divorce. And there is nothing taught in the Church that justifies divorce over this issue.

 

For this particular issue, she might (conjecture) be throwing it around to get you to change because she is hurt, angry, upset, etc. It still isn't appropriate.

 

What I continue to believe is that this issue is completely your responsibility to overcome, and while it is not her fault any man in a solid marital relationship will not get into this. Your marriage has bigger issues than porn (while it is a major factor); and while she doesn't have any responsibility to work on not viewing porn (that is 100% your issue-just stop it, you can do it-mind over matter-just simply stop), she does have a responsibility to work on the marriage and that includes not using nuclear weapons as a threat.

 

But, seriously-stop it. Rather than seek out pixels, seek out your wife.

[Guest]

I don't know what he Church actually says about pornography vis-a-vis divorce.  But it is common to believe that pornography is still "cheating on your wife".  And cheating is grounds for divorce.

 

So, if you're asking about Church policy, ask your bishop if it is grounds for divorce.  If you're asking our opinions, like Vort said, it doesn't really matter.  If you're asking if your wife, as a personal belief, is justified, well... you can see that she thinks it is.

 

But how to deal with it... Just keep moving forward.  Make progress day-by-day.  If you can get to a point that you satisfy your wife before she pushes the button on the divorce football, then great.  If not, you'll have to live with it, pick up the pieces, and move on.  That's reality.

 

We don't have her here to talk to.  We only have you.  So, the only advice can be what you can do and how you should deal with it.

[The Folk Prophet]

Just out of curiosity, what are you looking for here? Ammo? You planning on going to her with, "the people on lds.net say you shouldn't be threatening me with divorce. So neener!" Or something like that?

 

First off, the answer is obvious and doesn't need to be asked...so really it strikes me that you're not looking for an answer but for some sort of emotional confirmation (which you shouldn't need because it's obvious), and second, what good will that confirmation really do you?

 

Just go be the person God would have you be.

[estradling75]

In situations like these people need to remember that their temple Covenants are with the Lord not with a spouse. (although ones spouse is clearly a part of what the Sealing covenant is about).  We have agency and we can break that covenant at any time if we so desire, but we will suffer the consequence for that.  But only the Lord can release us if we do not want to break the covenant.  But you wife isn't here so talking to her isn't really an opinion.

 

So lets talk about you, your wife's reaction while not great is a clearly foreseeable consequence of your actions.  And you are really in no position to complain about the mote in your wife's' eye when you so clearly have a beam in yours.

Edited January 14, 2016 by estradling75

[unixknight]

I think a lot of the replies here are too harsh.  The OP has obviously been working to overcome the problem, has taken all the steps one should take, and yet some of you guys are still beating him up over it.  What more does he need to do?  The man came for advice.

 

It's true we are only getting one side of the story, but there was something very telling... The wife's refusal to accompany him in marriage counseling.  The path to recovery from something like this has to be a marital team effort.  Handling something like this alone is bad mojo.  A marriage is a team.  Yes, I get that she's hurt and feels betrayed and all that, but she needs to work through those feelings as well, and obviously isn't doing a very good job of it on her own.

 

exmisionaro92, you are right that her threatening divorce at this point are unhelpful and inappropriate.  For what it's worth, it's probably a type of lashing out... She feels hurt, and on some level rejected.  This is a very common way for a spouse to feel of they've been cheated on or if the other person has been consuming porn.  They feel like they've been rejected in favor of someone more attractive.  This might be why the divorce card keeps getting played.  Maybe she wants you to feel rejected too.

 

I don't know her, so I don't know the best way to handle it, but clearly it isn't helping.  She DOES need counseling along with you, because she is causing greater damage at this point, rather than being part of the solution.

[Backroads]

To answer the question simply, no, I don't think porn, especially with repentance, necessarily justifies divorce in and of itself.

If your wife were asking for advice I would tell her to stick to the marriage.

But she's not.

Be patient with her, be loving, and then give it to the Lord and keep working on improving you.

Sorry you are going through this and best of luck.

[Guest MormonGator]

You really shouldn't look for reasons to get divorced. You should look for reasons to stay together. 

 

Getting divorced will shatter everything you hold dear and you'll regret it for life. 

[The Folk Prophet]

I think a lot of the replies here are too harsh.  The OP has obviously been working to overcome the problem, has taken all the steps one should take, and yet some of you guys are still beating him up over it.  What more does he need to do?  The man came for advice.

 

But that's not really what he did at all. He asked if his situation is a good reason to get divorced. That's not asking for advice. It's a plain yes/no question that has an obvious answer. Having made strides to improve (assuming he is honest in his telling) then clearly divorce isn't proper. But what good does it do for us to tell him that? It's his wife that needs to be convinced. And proper or not (by principle) she still has every right to seek divorce if she so chooses.

 

But the intention, if I may clarify, was not to be harsh on him. My tactless ways do shine through inadvertently. The intent was to ask what he's really looking for here.

[Guest MormonGator]

 My tactless ways do shine through inadvertently. 

Folk Prophet is just one big ray of sunshine. 

[What's in a name?]

Hello exmisionero92.  Welcome to the world of the use of the nuclear option as a means of expression and/or manipulation.  Fun isn’t it?  Not!  As the recipient of talk of divorce, both that which is followed through on, and when it is used as a manipulative tool, my opinion is that discussing it in the way you have portrayed is never appropriate or justified. 

 

But the reasons for its use can be understood. 

 

From my observations of myself and others, reading many many relationship and self-help books, under the umbrella of understanding that pretty much every soul here on earth is good and faithful (kept first estate), I conclude that the majority of bad behavior from all of us is driven by what we lack.  From this basis, I conclude that both your transgressions, and hers, are attempts to fill voids in your needs.  Albeit, we go about it wrong, and cause damage to ourselves and others in doing so.  Almost always, it is driven by a lack of feeling loved, whether real, or a construct of our own deficits in feelings of self-worth.  And, not having been taught appropriate ways to ask for and obtain the love we need, we flail about trying whatever the world offers us, or that we have seen modeled for us (which sadly, is often more rooted in bad behavior than functional behavior).

 

Rather than writing out more thoughts here, there is a much richer medium for you to understand the likely reasons she has played the divorce card.  It is the book Real Love in Marriage.  Its available on audible, so you can listen to it on your commute, or while exercising, etc. No need to slow down or eliminate other needful activities.  I highly suggest it.  Given what little has been written, I think you both need it.  Whether it is effective for you or not, it will provide a whole new way to view why she plays the divorce card in your relations.  

 

Best of luck to you.

[Windseeker]

I don't know what he Church actually says about pornography vis-a-vis divorce.  But it is common to believe that pornography is still "cheating on your wife".  And cheating is grounds for divorce.

 

Pornography does not equal Adultery. Thankfully "grounds" for divorce is up to the individual or this plague of Pornography would be followed by a plague of divorce.  

[The Folk Prophet]

Pornography does not equal Adultery. 

 

But that's not what he said. He said it was cheating. As in disloyalty, infidelity, etc. It is, indeed, that.

 

 

this plague of Pornography would be followed by a plague of divorce.  

 

I dunno...maybe a little getting-your-head-knocked-in would help. We're also plagued by this strange concept of consequence free sinning.

[Windseeker]

What consequences would you like to see fp?

[Guest MormonGator]

But that's not what he said. He said it was cheating. As in disloyalty, infidelity, etc. It is, indeed, that.

 

 

 

I dunno...maybe a little getting-your-head-knocked-in would help. We're also plagued by this strange concept of consequence free sinning.

Divorce is the far greater sin. It causes way more misery, destruction and evil than porn (also sinful) ever could. 

I'm certainly not defending porn. I think it's repulsive. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by MormonGator

[LeSellers]

I recall reading that he who refuses to forgive retains the greater sin.

How does that apply here?

Lehi

[Guest]

I recall reading that he who refuses to forgive retains the greater sin.

How does that apply here?

Lehi

 

It doesn't yet, I don't think.

 

I'm betting that the wife is only throwing the D-bomb as a defense mechanism, not necessarily because she doesn't want to forgive.  She's hurting.  She just hasn't gotten to that point of the process where she can humble herself completely to let God work His miracle.

 

I suggest Anakin's advice - "I say patience.  R2 will be along in a few moments and..."

[Guest]

Pornography does not equal Adultery. Thankfully "grounds" for divorce is up to the individual or this plague of Pornography would be followed by a plague of divorce.  

 

I understand what you mean, Wind.  But I never said I believed it.  I was trying to give the OP some understanding of what is going through his wife's mind -- whether correct or not.

[exmisionero92]

Just out of curiosity, what are you looking for here? Ammo? You planning on going to her with, "the people on lds.net say you shouldn't be threatening me with divorce. So neener!" Or something like that?

 

First off, the answer is obvious and doesn't need to be asked...so really it strikes me that you're not looking for an answer but for some sort of emotional confirmation (which you shouldn't need because it's obvious), and second, what good will that confirmation really do you?

 

Just go be the person God would have you be.

 

I am not looking for ammo,  I don't exactly know what I'm looking for other than a place to seek advice from like minded individuals who may have passed through similar circumstances.

 

I guess you can tell by me turning to a forum like this that we are not doing well right now.

[The Folk Prophet]

What consequences would you like to see fp?

 

 

Divorce is the far greater sin. It causes way more misery, destruction and evil than porn (also sinful) ever could. 

I'm certainly not defending porn. I think it's repulsive. 

 

Understand me. I'm not advocating for the idea that people should divorce their spouses for porn usage. I am merely saying that if one views porn and then their spouse divorces them...................well duh.

[Windseeker]

I understand what you mean, Wind.  But I never said I believed it.  I was trying to give the OP some understanding of what is going through his wife's mind -- whether correct or not.

..and I would concede that in some extreme cases divorce might be correct option.

 

I happen to know a few Temple Presidents, Mission Presidents, Patriarchs, Stake Presidents and Bishops who's families would have been shattered by divorce if it wasn't for some very patient and understanding wives...and that was pre-plague days. 

 

The idea that pornography addiction would be automatic grounds for divorce, must make Satan very happy.

 

Women who knee-jerk react by castigating, scorning, condemning, emotionally and physically abandoning their husbands for falling are every bit a part of the "pornography problem" as the women depicted in the pictures and video. 

[unixknight]

Women who knee-jerk react by castigating, scorning, condemning, emotionally and physically abandoning their husbands for falling are every bit a part of the "pornography problem" as the women depicted in the pictures and video. 

 

This.  ^ 

 

All day long.

[Just_A_Guy]

Fellow porn addict here.

 

One thing I'm not hearing, exmisionero92, is your sobriety/relapse history over the last eighteen months.  Obviously, that's none of my business; but it's certainly going to have an effect on how your wife views the situation.  Depending on what your relapse history looks like, a lot of women just aren't cut out to endure that sort of heartache on a recurring basis. 

 

I think, on some level, you sort of have to insulate your recovery from your marriage; in the sense that--while we often begin recovery because we have hit rock-bottom and have been forced into repentance by circumstance--eventually we reach a point where we're pursuing recovery for its own sake.  Even if our spouses leave us anyways.  Even if it becomes clear that we will not, at least in this life, recovery everything that we have lost.  It's really, fundamentally, Step 3 from the program.

 

Ironically, I think the best chance for recovery of the marital relationship (and it's definitely not a sure thing) is when your spouse starts seeing that surrender in your life.  One aspect of that surrender, is you allowing your wife to cope with her own hurt and grief on her own terms without telling her how she should react or what she should say or what course of action she is "justified" in pursuing.  If it turns out she's not dealing with that in a healthy way, or failing to get past it many months after your most recent relapse; then I would agree that gentle prodding towards a good marriage counselor (be wary here; there are lots of bad ones)--in conjunction with your own surrender and continued recovery--is about the best you can do. 

 

At some point, you may need to start talking to your bishop and your own counselor about how you plan to move forward if it turns out that your wife is unable--or unwilling--to allow the relationship to heal; but (my own opinion) you're still a good year or two away from that.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

Understand me. I'm not advocating for the idea that people should divorce their spouses for porn usage. I am merely saying that if one views porn and then their spouse divorces them...................well duh.

Oh. Because I'm totally different. If you divorce your spouse for looking at porn, well, that's pretty shallow. I also don't think a marriage should end because of a one time affair either. Again, divorce is just brutal.