Sign of the cross

[omegaseamaster75]

This has probably been covered, but we have a new convert a young lady who likes to do the sign of the cross after prayer. In fairness to her I don't think the missionaries did a good job explaining to her why we don't do that so she has persisted. The YW president will be speaking with her regarding this.

 

I am sure that this young lady has been doing this all of her life, and I also think that if you asked her why she did it she wouldn't know other than force of habit. An issue that I am sure will be resolved soon.

 

I guess what I am trying to get to is culturally we have an aversion to crosses in general. I have heard the talks and I know that we as individuals should be symbols of our religion and Christianity. Whats the big deal? if someone wants to wear a cross WHO CARES?

 

This poor girl of whom I spoke earlier, in ward council it was a big deal.....

[prisonchaplain]

Interesting topic. As a Protestant-Evangelical-Pentecostal, we don't do the sign of the cross, either. Yet, as a chaplain I will encounter those who do. It does not bother me, because we are not averse to the cross at all. So, why is it a big deal--in a nutshell? Also, to make what is probably a clumsy comparison--how does cross wearing (if symbols are an issue) differ from the CTR jewelry some sport?

[Bini]

I don't know what policy is but from what I remember, yes, converts are discouraged from wearing crosses or doing the sign of the cross but my own opinion is that if it's done because it brings that person comfort and a sense of being closer to God, so be it. I don't think a piece of jewelry or the motion of one's hand is all that relevant in the grandness of things.

[Vort]

Wearing a cross as a piece of jewelry is different from performing "the sign of the cross", which is a Catholic element of religious worship and prayer. Wearing a cross as jewelry is typically not done in Mormon circles, but there is nothing "wrong" with it, and I doubt that many people would make a fuss or probably even notice it.

 

On the other hand, making the sign of the cross is like saying "Allahu akbar" or putting candles on the sacrament table -- not an evil thing per se, but a recognizable element of a completely different tradition of worship, and thus improper for a Latter-day Saint.

 

Someone (missionaries, maybe RS pres or bishop) should privately and gently let the young convert know that making the sign of the cross is not needed and does not form a part of LDS worship of God.

[Jane_Doe]

How long has this lady been a convert?  I would approach this differently if she got baptized last week and is still brand new to the church, versus a convert that's been going to church for a year.

[Guest]

Anecdote:  We once had a convert who was doing his best to "change his culture".  He was a really sweet guy who was a little below average intelligence.  But he always brought a big smile to everyone around him.  He was given the calling of program coordinator.  One Sunday in December, he created a decorative cover that had a cross on it (It was Christmas themed).  We handed it out.  Some people noted the cross.  Others just saw it as a decoration.

 

The ward mission leader politely advised him that we don't use crosses in our worship services.  He snapped his fingers in remembrance.  He said,"Oh, that was it.  I remembered that angels don't have wings.  So I didn't put an angel on there.  I remembered there was a second thing. I forgot what it was.  I'll remember now."

 

********************************************

 

 

It isn't that it is evil.  It is a cultural thing.  Just as we define some ecclesiastical words differently and we speak differently in our religious settings than other Christians, our elements of liturgy are also slightly different.  So, it's not an "OH MY GOSH! HOW HORRIBLE!" moment.  It's a "when in Rome..." moment.

 

What I don't want, personally, is for these elements of other cultures to be so common that they creep into our culture to the point where we are no different than anyone else.  We are supposed to be a peculiar people.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

Catholics discourage wearing crosses for jewelry as well.  Big deal with Madonna back in the day.

 

Catholics wear a cross pendant, not as jewelry but as a devotional scapular.  It's not intended to be part of a costume.

 

When I got baptized, it took me a while to be culturally Mormon.  Sign of the cross, written prayers, calling sacrament communion, calling sacrament meeting mass, etc.  I was culturally Catholic for at least a year.  Nobody really said anything to me about it - which is awesome.  It gave me time to assimilate into the Mormon culture without feeling pressured to do so.  The more I prayed with Mormons the less I felt the need to make the sign of the cross.  The more I studied Mormonism, the less I feel the need to wear my scapular.  I actually shed my scapular the day I wore garments - a year after my baptism.

[Just_A_Guy]

This has probably been covered, but we have a new convert a young lady who likes to do the sign of the cross after prayer. In fairness to her I don't think the missionaries did a good job explaining to her why we don't do that so she has persisted. The YW president will be speaking with her regarding this.

 

I am sure that this young lady has been doing this all of her life, and I also think that if you asked her why she did it she wouldn't know other than force of habit. An issue that I am sure will be resolved soon.

 

I guess what I am trying to get to is culturally we have an aversion to crosses in general. I have heard the talks and I know that we as individuals should be symbols of our religion and Christianity. Whats the big deal? if someone wants to wear a cross WHO CARES?

 

This poor girl of whom I spoke earlier, in ward council it was a big deal.....

 

Frankly, I think it's a beautiful tradition and I wouldn't begrudge a convert for continuing it.

[The Folk Prophet]

Wearing a cross as jewelry is typically not done in Mormon circles, but there is nothing "wrong" with it, and I doubt that many people would make a fuss or probably even notice it

 

I don't know that I agree with this. I expect that a great many would notice and be uncomfortable with it. For better or worse, I walk into Hobby Lobby and the aisle with all the crosses and I feel highly uncomfortable. I reasonably understand better than this, but it is my culture and how I was raised, so I have to suppress this. I expect that is rather common. If I saw someone wearing a cross at church, even a small necklace, I would definitely notice. Whether people make a "fuss" over it or not, I suppose, depends on what's considered a "fuss".

[Vort]

I don't know that I agree with this. I expect that a great many would notice and be uncomfortable with it. For better or worse, I walk into Hobby Lobby and the aisle with all the crosses and I feel highly uncomfortable. I reasonably understand better than this, but it is my culture and how I was raised, so I have to suppress this. I expect that is rather common. If I saw someone wearing a cross at church, even a small necklace, I would definitely notice. Whether people make a "fuss" over it or not, I suppose, depends on what's considered a "fuss".

 

I may have overstated things, then. What I should probably have said is that I personally don't see anything wrong with wearing a cross as a decorative ornament such as an earring or a tie pin, and that I hope no one would make a fuss over such a display.

 

I still do see a principled difference between wearing a small cross as jewelry and doing the sign of the cross. I also admit I'm not completely consistent in my feelings, since I would be much more uncomfortable with someone LDS wearing a very obvious cross sign (e.g. a dress with a large cross in its design, or maybe even a tie with a large religious cross shape prominently displayed).

 

"Allahu akbar" simply means "God is great". We believe that. So is there anything wrong with saying "Allahu akbar"? With wearing a turban that conceals a dagger? With eating wafers and grape juice? With moving your hand to form a cross shape? With slaughtering a goat? None of these actions is objectionable per se; the problem is that each carries significant religious connotation. If that connotation is incidental, well then, fine, go ahead. But when people wear cross-shaped earrings to Church, that is a religious emblem in a specifically religious environment.

 

I personally don't think wearing cross-shaped earrings crosses (no pun intended) any important line. But making the sign of the cross? To me, yes, I think that goes over a line. I do not condemn the person, and am sure it was done innocently. But I do think that the person making the sign of the cross should be made aware that the specific religious symbol s/he is using is not one that we normally use in the Church.

[EarlJibbs]

I don't know that I agree with this. I expect that a great many would notice and be uncomfortable with it. For better or worse, I walk into Hobby Lobby and the aisle with all the crosses and I feel highly uncomfortable. I reasonably understand better than this, but it is my culture and how I was raised, so I have to suppress this. I expect that is rather common. If I saw someone wearing a cross at church, even a small necklace, I would definitely notice. Whether people make a "fuss" over it or not, I suppose, depends on what's considered a "fuss".

 

We have had a baptism for just about every week for months now in my ward. The newest one wears a cross. When she bore her testimony she talked about the gift of tongues and how often she spoke in languages that no one else understood due to how in tune she was to God. If anyone makes a "fuss" about someone wearing cross, IMO then they have not taken the time to understand anyone outside of the Mormon religion or anyone from a different back ground. I can say that the new member I spoke if is genuine and I have yet to hear anyone from the ward mention it.

 

It is equally appropriate to talk to the ward members about how to handle certain circumstances. As the new Sunday School President I was asked to talk to all the teachers to be careful about any talk in classes regarding "how the Catholics do it" or how any other churches operate as it could easily be seen as bashing a religion that new members still probably hold in a high regard. 

[Crypto]

This has probably been covered, but we have a new convert a young lady who likes to do the sign of the cross after prayer. In fairness to her I don't think the missionaries did a good job explaining to her why we don't do that so she has persisted. The YW president will be speaking with her regarding this.

 

I am sure that this young lady has been doing this all of her life, and I also think that if you asked her why she did it she wouldn't know other than force of habit. An issue that I am sure will be resolved soon.

 

I guess what I am trying to get to is culturally we have an aversion to crosses in general. I have heard the talks and I know that we as individuals should be symbols of our religion and Christianity. Whats the big deal? if someone wants to wear a cross WHO CARES?

 

This poor girl of whom I spoke earlier, in ward council it was a big deal.....

Some early Mormons actually had no problem with the cross as a symbol using it in clothing, and on some of our chapels. I don't think it's something to be overly concerned about.

[Guest MormonGator]

I wear a little cross I got at an Army surplus store all the time. I never served in the armed forces, for the record. 

 

 It's a reminder to the world that I'm a believer. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

When she bore her testimony she talked about the gift of tongues and how often she spoke in languages that no one else understood due to how in tune she was to God.

 

Not sure what this has to do with anything.

 

If anyone makes a "fuss" about someone wearing cross, IMO then they have not taken the time to understand anyone outside of the Mormon religion or anyone from a different back ground.

 

Making a "fuss" about what is appropriate for Mormons has absolutely nothing to do with understanding other religions and backgrounds. If it's inappropriate, it's inappropriate. If it isn't, it isn't. If it is inappropriate then it is right that a "fuss" be made at some level, regardless of what it meant to them prior to their coming into the LDS church. Sure, it should be handled with great care, tact, and timing, if it needs to be handled.

 

Note: I'm not making an argument by this as to whether wearing a cross is or is not appropriate. That I may address at some point, but that isn't what I'm discussing here.

[Guest MormonGator]

Cool story: I have an LDS friend on FB who loves to bash Catholics. I told him, "If you bash Catholics and then flip over someone bashing the LDS church, you look like a hypocrite." Showing respect for other religions doesn't mean you agree with them theologically. It just means you aren't a jerk. 

[Guest]

Cool story: I have an LDS friend on FB who loves to bash Catholics. I told him, "If you bash Catholics and then flip over someone bashing the LDS church, you look like a hypocrite." Showing respect for other religions doesn't mean you agree with them theologically. It just means you aren't a jerk. 

 

I don't worry too much about other religions bashing other religions - I think they're jerks but, oh well.  What bugs me is LDS bashing other religions.  The Articles of Faith should, at the very least, mean something to an LDS.

[The Folk Prophet]

Cool story: I have an LDS friend on FB who loves to bash Catholics. I told him, "If you bash Catholics and then flip over someone bashing the LDS church, you look like a hypocrite." Showing respect for other religions doesn't mean you agree with them theologically. It just means you aren't a jerk. 

 

A) I'm not sure I'd call this a "story".

 

B) I'm not sure what this has to do with the point at hand. Is it meant to imply that suggesting that LDS members should not make the sign of the cross and/or wear crosses is somehow disrespectful to other religions?