How to serve my husband, or, my house is a mess

[Kara]

Hello, new to the site, recommended by a co-worker.

I have what I feel is probably a minor problem in the grand scheme of things, but it's something that is weighing me down.

In short, my house is a mess, my husband won't help me, I can't catch up, and I'm starting to feel very bitter toward my husband.

We both work full-time. In the beginning, we divided household responsibilities fairly well and kept the house in decent order. Last summer, we had a period of some emergencies where things got hectic and we fell behind. After that, my husband stopped helping clean the house. He works, comes home, and does everything else but help out. I have asked repeatedly for his help, and he full-out refuses. Finally, he looked me square in the eye and told me to never ask him to help clean again. This was about three months ago, and I've stopped asking. I would suck it up and accept my second shift, but it's almost as if my husband doesn't want me cleaning, either. We have a fairly active intimate life, and my husband also loves planning little family events with our very young children. Every time I try to catch up, he insists on sex or family outing or game and I hate to be the wife/mom who skips out on those.

Life has gotten extremely stressful for me. All I can think about is this mess, yet I'm never given enough time to buckle down. Little bits here and there daily aren't noticeably helping, and in all these months I've never been given a period of time to clean.

The house isn't just untidy. It's filthy, the floor is covered, and my husband just makes it worse. Our children are too young to be of much good, though I've tried to dig out some time to teach them a few skills. As it is, they aren't old enough to help tackle the disaster of my house. I just don't have any time to get anything serious done before I'm dragged away by something else.  Everytime I try to carve out a weekend, my husband plans some trip. I feel like he's avoiding the subject and he won't tell me why. I'd even use the Sabbath, but it's full of extended-family events.

Worse, he then criticizes me about why the house looks the way it does. When I was asking him why he wouldn't help, he says most men don't participate in housework. So, he's upset with me for the messy house, yet refuses to give me the time to just take care of things. I've never been super neat, but I've always maintained a respectably clean home. I feel as if I am being punished for letting things get behind last summer. Now, everything just piles and piles. I can't invite people over. I can't enjoy my husband or my children because the house and my lack of time. I once tried to use a sick day, and my husband found out and also took a sick day so we could have a date together.

I don't know what to do. I feel pathetic just posting this. I want to serve my husband and family by putting them before my house, but it's gotten to the point where I just can't. I'm angry at my husband and yet am shot down every time I try to talk about it. He's mad at me for the messy house and for not enjoying our intimacy like we used to--I am now doing this as a duty and I'm in despair I can't even enjoy sex.

I hate being mad at my husband and I also don't see any way of making him understand how I feel. I'm furious at him and I can't even find a way to serve him selfishly without hoping he'll reciprocate and help me.

I apologize for the length of this post and for asking advice on what I feel should be such a trivia.l matter, but I'm at my breaking point.

[Guest]

If you are both working and he's not pulling his weight, hire someone to come in and do the deep cleaning every week or two. If he refuses to help, you can pay someone to do his share. Either he'll decide the money is more important than being lazy, or someone else will be cleaning. Either way, you'll have a cleaner house and fewer resentful feelings. It'll be cheaper than therapy, anyway. 

[Guest]

I don't know where he got the idea that "men don't help with housework."  There's a problem.

[BeccaKirstyn]

Can a "family event" be cleaning the house? I know your children are young and can't do much, but maybe there could be some sort of activity created that would both involve family time but also cleaning your house? Since it seems that the excuse to have family time over cleaning is the issue your husband has with it, maybe combining the two would break an even ground?

I mean it would of course be great if he could communicate what's going on in his head about this, but I can see that this isn't something that seems plausible. 

[Guest MormonGator]

32 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I don't know where he got the idea that "men don't help with housework."  There's a problem.

THIS. I do most of the housework, LadyGator does  most of the hardware stuff. It's 2016 and this shouldn't be an issue. 

Tell him to get with the program, frankly. And you don't have to "serve" your husband. Marriage should be a partnership of total equals where no one serves anyone. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by MormonGator

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, Eowyn said:

If you are both working and he's not pulling his weight, hire someone to come in and do the deep cleaning every week or two. If he refuses to help, you can pay someone to do his share. Either he'll decide the money is more important than being lazy, or someone else will be cleaning. Either way, you'll have a cleaner house and fewer resentful feelings. It'll be cheaper than therapy, anyway. 

 

I'm with this. It may only solve the symptom, but that sounds like what you immediately need.

 

[Backroads]

30 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

THIS. I do most of the housework, LadyGator does  most of the hardware stuff. It's 2016 and this shouldn't be an issue. 

Tell him to get with the program, frankly. And you don't have to "serve" your husband. Marriage should be a partnership of total equals where no one serves anyone. 

Well, we are always to serve the ones we love.

OP, Sounds like you're trying to do your part with the intimacy and family time he seems to crave, but you're struggling with your needs. You might have to come right out and let him know you'll be a lot more in the mood if he'll help you clean the house.

[Guest MormonGator]

26 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Well, we are always to serve the ones we love.

 

And we should, as long as it is mostly equal. 

I've said it before, but LDS can be such wonderful people that they don't set boundaries and limits sometimes

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by MormonGator

[yjacket]

I'm surprised no one has stated this, but why in the world are you working a full-time job with little children at home?

And just for clarification, yes I know the common refrain is "but we both have to work"-IMO it is more of an excuse than a reason (there are some cases where it is necessary-but if "necessary" means a 2000+ sqft house that's not a necessity-that's a want.  I moved out of a high-cost of living area specifically because I knew that if I continued to work in that area to have the things I wanted it would require my wife to work-I said no to that moved and things have gone very well.

It's late and I'm tired-but the prophets have counseled and continued to counsel that the mother's primary responsibility is to provide for the nurture and care of the children and the father's primary responsibility is to provide the necessities of life for the family.

Yeah, yeah it's 2016  . . . so what, God was right and the Bible when it lays out very plainly the proper roles between men and women.  Get that right and things will go a lot more smoothly. Considering the way children are being raised with no mother in the home, divorce rampant, morality in the tank-I think I'd take the good 'ol days when people actually new what their role was in life and fulfilled it-instead of trying to be and do all. 

President Monson even said in a GC many years ago, STTE of the man is the head of the household and the woman the heart.

Other than that your options are a) continue to be ticked at your husband, b) hire a maid, c) well you know what this option is.

Edited February 4, 2016 by yjacket

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, Eowyn said:

If you are both working and he's not pulling his weight, hire someone to come in and do the deep cleaning every week or two. If he refuses to help, you can pay someone to do his share. Either he'll decide the money is more important than being lazy, or someone else will be cleaning. Either way, you'll have a cleaner house and fewer resentful feelings. It'll be cheaper than therapy, anyway. 

BIngo!! I was sitting there thinking the exact same thing but Eowyn beat me to the punch. 

[Jane_Doe]

There also seems to be a problem with balancing responsibility and fun.  If you're husband is unwilling to address that, there's a major issue going on here. 

PS, my stay-at-home husband does majority of the cleaning in our house.  If he needs help, he'll ask for me to help directly, or for me to take our toddler out of the house so he can clean in peace.

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, Backroads said:

You might have to come right out and let him know you'll be a lot more in the mood if he'll help you clean the house.

 Many people need this explained/spelled out to them, especially men. Many men (including my former self) do not understand the direct connection between helping around the house and  the mood that it puts their wives in or out of. You both might be caught in a cycle:

You are not in the mood for sex because he doesn't help around the house AND he is not in the mood to help around the house because you are not in the mood for sex. 

Here is a (LDS) book that I would recommend to EVERY couple, new or old. "Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment" by Laura Brotherson. Wonderful book, designed to be read and discussed as a couple! There is a great section in it, "How Husbands Can Help Prepare (their wives) for the Warm-up Phase (for intimacy)". Very first line says: "Women may not have the time, energy or interest to even allow themselves to enter the Warm-up phase without their husband's willing and loving assistance with household responsibilities. 

Wow, first sentence!

Boyd K Packer: "There is no task, however menial, connected with the care of babies, the nurturing of children, or with the maintenance of the home that is not a husband's equal obligation".

 

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

 

Boyd K Packer: "There is no task, however menial, connected with the care of babies, the nurturing of children, or with the maintenance of the home that is not a husband's equal obligation. 

 

 

Love this. So often Packer is considered a hardcore conservative, but he really wasn't. He was the perfect apostle, really. I miss him. 

[Backroads]

29 minutes ago, yjacket said:

I'm surprised no one has stated this, but why in the world are you working a full-time job with little children at home?

And just for clarification, yes I know the common refrain is "but we both have to work"-IMO it is more of an excuse than a reason (there are some cases where it is necessary-but if "necessary" means a 2000+ sqft house that's not a necessity-that's a want.  I moved out of a high-cost of living area specifically because I knew that if I continued to work in that area to have the things I wanted it would require my wife to work-I said no to that moved and things have gone very well.

It's late and I'm tired-but the prophets have counseled and continued to counsel that the mother's primary responsibility is to provide for the nurture and care of the children and the father's primary responsibility is to provide the necessities of life for the family.

Yeah, yeah it's 2016  . . . so what, God was right and the Bible when it lays out very plainly the proper roles between men and women.  Get that right and things will go a lot more smoothly. Considering the way children are being raised with no mother in the home, divorce rampant, morality in the tank-I think I'd take the good 'ol days when people actually new what their role was in life and fulfilled it-instead of trying to be and do all. 

President Monson even said in a GC many years ago, STTE of the man is the head of the household and the woman the heart.

Other than that your options are a) continue to be ticked at your husband, b) hire a maid, c) well you know what this option is.

I agree it's definitely the ideal that comes with blessings but... I just assumed the OP was in a similar situation to me. If only my husband worked, we'd be on welfare (same as if only I worked). Yes, I have two kids under three at home and I work full-time. Despite us both having college degrees, neither of us makes enough money to support a family. Yes, it's 2016 and that's too often the reality unless you have a really good job. I know very, very few stay-at-home only moms under 40 in the middle-class church community I run with. I literally can count them on one hand. Why do they have jobs? Because the husbands won't be able to support their families by themselves for a good 5 to 10 years in those fields without a master's or doctorate's and no one can afford to get those degrees. And these aren't big houses, either. This is the day-to-day survival.

I completely agree it's usually best to have a stay-at-home mom, but I also daresay that there has been enough evil influence and even just plain misfortune of mortality to create this particular attack on the family.

[mirkwood]

My wife and I made an agreement years ago.  I don't have to do household chores because I work two jobs.  I also don't have to do the dishes because I cook (her idea that I cook and she wash).  I pointed this out to my sons.  I then pointed out to them that I do an awful lot of household chores and washing of dishes.  Maybe they'll get it by the time they get married.

[Backroads]

12 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

 Many people need this explained/spelled out to them, especially men. Many men (including my former self) do not understand the direct connection between helping around the house and  the mood that it puts their wives in or out of. You both might be caught in a cycle:

You are not in the mood for sex because he doesn't help around the house AND he is not in the mood to help around the house because you are not in the mood for sex. 

 

And there it is!

[Vort]

I basically agree with yjacket. If your husband wants a "traditional" split of duties, then that means he brings home the bacon -- ALL the bacon. If you're helping with the money, he should be helping with the housework.

TWO DON'TS:

1. Don't make this about sex. This is NOT about sex. Sex is a separate issue. If you drag sex into this, you will cause great harm to your marriage. I don't care if he "deserves" it. Dragging sex into this issue is not unlike (physically) dragging one of your children into the disagreement. Just a horrible, horrible idea. Avoid it like the plague that it is.
2. Be confrontational if you must, but it would be better if you could avoid confrontation altogether. I realize that he told you never to bring housework up again, but that is a silly ultimatum (thought you probably shouldn't tell him that). I am envisioning a calm, loving conversation that you bring up, telling him that the housework is out of control and that you cannot do it. You are willing to work outside the home AND in the home, but he needs to be willing to do the same. Then you present him two lists, with the housework/cooking/other responsibilities equally divided between them, and invite him to pick which one he likes best, and you'll take the other. You will meet together every Saturday to go over the responsibilities, review what went well and what went badly, and work on how to improve things (and celebrate the things that worked).

If you take my suggestion, then whatever happens, DO NOT (another don't) criticize and nag him during the week. It's HIS responsibility; let HIM take care of it. If he doesn't, well, that's a lot of Saturday work for him. But he has no one to blame but himself if the house looks trashy (as long as it's his part that's trashy and not yours).

I realize this won't solve your problems in and of itself. But it is a way to start. If your husband is a basically reasonable and fair person who cares about you and his family, it is a way to get on the path to where you want to be.

[Backroads]

My husband and I have a household chores electronic spreadsheet. Works great. Add rewards to it to make sure you do things. Even adults need bribery.

[Backroads]

38 minutes ago, Vort said:

1. Don't make this about sex. This is NOT about sex. Sex is a separate issue. If you drag sex into this, you will cause great harm to your marriage. I don't care if he "deserves" it. Dragging sex into this issue is not unlike (physically) dragging one of your children into the disagreement. Just a horrible, horrible idea. Avoid it like the plague that it is.

 

 

52 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

 Many people need this explained/spelled out to them, especially men. Many men (including my former self) do not understand the direct connection between helping around the house and  the mood that it puts their wives in or out of. You both might be caught in a cycle:

You are not in the mood for sex because he doesn't help around the house AND he is not in the mood to help around the house because you are not in the mood for sex. 

Here is a (LDS) book that I would recommend to EVERY couple, new or old. "Strengthening Marriage through Sexual Fulfillment" by Laura Brotherson. Wonderful book, designed to be read and discussed as a couple! There is a great section in it, "How Husbands Can Help Prepare (their wives) for the Warm-up Phase (for intimacy)". Very first line says: "Women may not have the time, energy or interest to even allow themselves to enter the Warm-up phase without their husband's willing and loving assistance with household responsibilities. 

 

I agree that sex in this situation should not be used as punishment. I wager it a blessing to your marriage that you have an active sex life and I think it's great you consider your husband's sexual needs.

But you state you are struggling to enter sex whole-heartedly due to your state of mind. Fair enough. Your husband has his needs and you yours. I still would explain to him why you are struggling in the sex department, but it doesn't need to be an intimacy hostage situation (which, as Vort pointed out, is definitely what it should not be.)

If your husband were here, I'd smack him upside the head internet-style and tell him to help out or get a higher-paying job that will cover the family needs (which again, is a lot harder than it may seem). But your husband isn't here, so your best bet would be to speak to him about your needs (try not be accusing) and ask him, as the head of the family, what he thinks he should be done. And feel free to suggest the gist of the many household plans presented in this thread. If you take this problem, kindly, to him for guidance and help, you just might reach another side of him.

 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Love this. So often Packer is considered a hardcore conservative, but he really wasn't. He was the perfect apostle, really. I miss him. 

Oh, I think he was most definitely a "hardcore conservative". I also agree that he was, if not perfect, certainly an exceptional apostle.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

You say he was helpful before, so what changed? 

I had no problem with helping out around the home from the start of our marriage, but when my wife would see what I'd done, instead of a thank you I got criticized for not doing it right, not doing it well enough etc.  After a while of that a guy just wants to go 'Fine, do it yourself then!'.  I just honestly don't see as much mess as she does, when I think a room is done, to her it is only half done.  No guy want to have is wife on his case like that or make him feel incompetent.  She had to accept that my best was just not the same as her best in a lot of housecleaning areas.  Now there are some things that are more within my skill set, washing clothes etc. so I tend to focus on helping in the areas I do well, and when I wind up doing something I'm not so good at like dusting she now is grateful rather than critical and things go much better.

Could he perhaps be feeling his past efforts were unappreciated, or that what he does now to help provide for the family is taken for granted, or feel resentful over something else that makes him unwilling to help?  You need to know what is going on in his head and he needs to know what is going on in yours.  What is his idea of an acceptable state for the house and is that something you can live with?  How much is he willing to contribute to meeting that standard, either by his work or financial contribution? 

I'll second the idea of you becoming a full time mom if it is at all possible.  There is a financial cost to it, it will likely require a cut in lifestyle.  If you consider the extra expenses of your working (child care costs, transportation costs, work wardrobe costs, the cost of lunches, the increased taxes etc.) the cost may be far less than you fear, and the boost in quality of life for everybody in the family is huge.  It also gives him a level of flexibility and stability that could help his career.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, yjacket said:

I'm surprised no one has stated this, but why in the world are you working a full-time job with little children at home?

And just for clarification, yes I know the common refrain is "but we both have to work"-IMO it is more of an excuse than a reason (there are some cases where it is necessary-but if "necessary" means a 2000+ sqft house that's not a necessity-that's a want.  I moved out of a high-cost of living area specifically because I knew that if I continued to work in that area to have the things I wanted it would require my wife to work-I said no to that moved and things have gone very well.

It's late and I'm tired-but the prophets have counseled and continued to counsel that the mother's primary responsibility is to provide for the nurture and care of the children and the father's primary responsibility is to provide the necessities of life for the family.

Yeah, yeah it's 2016  . . . so what, God was right and the Bible when it lays out very plainly the proper roles between men and women.  Get that right and things will go a lot more smoothly. Considering the way children are being raised with no mother in the home, divorce rampant, morality in the tank-I think I'd take the good 'ol days when people actually new what their role was in life and fulfilled it-instead of trying to be and do all. 

President Monson even said in a GC many years ago, STTE of the man is the head of the household and the woman the heart.

Other than that your options are a) continue to be ticked at your husband, b) hire a maid, c) well you know what this option is.

I actually agree with a lot of this.  And it appears to apply to this current situation.

[omegaseamaster75]

Your not going to resolve this over the internet. You husband has an equal responsibility to the upkeep and maintenance of the home and kids. I will throw this out there also, even if you were a stay at home mom he has equal responsibility to the upkeep and maintenance of the home and raising of the kids. 

You need to see a MFT before the harboring of resentment gets worse. You need to learn to communicate better with your spouse and he needs to learn to communicate with you.

Short term fix, and someone mentioned this before hire a maid.

 

[LeSellers]

19 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

even if you were a stay at home mom he has equal responsibility to the upkeep and maintenance of the home and raising of the kids.

People seem to forget that "equal" does not mean "identical".

In a typical, one-earner (one-tax-payer) family, the husband meets a huge part of his "equal responsibility" by bringing home the money necessary to maintain the home, clothe the children, feed them, and all the rest. He has additional duties regarding rearing those children, but that does not mean he has to wash the clothes and cook the meals, clean the toilets and whatever other work is required. But he is still their teacher, their model, their guide, and their leader. Those duties cannot be easily met by their mother.

It is the same with a two-taxpayer family, too. The father's duties to his children are still different from those of their mother. If he meets those requirements, and she hers, their lives are in balance. This is true even though the individuals do not do exactly the same things in exactly the same ways.

"Equal responsibility" does not mean "identical responsibility".

Lehi

[omegaseamaster75]

On 2/4/2016 at 9:15 AM, LeSellers said:

People seem to forget that "equal" does not mean "identical".

In a typical, one-earner (one-tax-payer) family, the husband meets a huge part of his "equal responsibility" by bringing home the money necessary to maintain the home, clothe the children, feed them, and all the rest. He has additional duties regarding rearing those children, but that does not mean he has to wash the clothes and cook the meals, clean the toilets and whatever other work is required. But he is still their teacher, their model, their guide, and their leader. Those duties cannot be easily met by their mother.

It is the same with a two-taxpayer family, too. The father's duties to his children are still different from those of their mother. If he meets those requirements, and she hers, their lives are in balance. This is true even though the individuals do not do exactly the same things in exactly the same ways.

"Equal responsibility" does not mean "identical responsibility".

Lehi

Emphasis added by me, and I agree in general but the couple may come to an agreement were the husband does help out with those things. Particularly in a 2 earner household of which there are more and more.  The days of the stay at home mom are dwindling. If both parents work the kids need mothering as much as they need a fatherly example. If your wife comes home from work and has to attend to all of the housework when does she get that mom time with the kids? 

If you as a man can't bring home the bacon by yourself you have no right to complain about doing some dishes or scrubbing a toilet.