Do you think illness can be caused by Satan, as a way of keeping us from Heavenly Father?


Stumblinginthemists
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Hi all,

I think I've managed to work myself into a corner and I don't seem to be able to get any sense or response from my ward/stake leaders. I also can't get much sense from studying things out myself, I have been trying for months.

Basically I feel as though whenever things go right in my life, as in things that would please Heavenly Father, something has to come along for me or my family to make things hard. The worst of these being my husband's cancer. And now I'm stuck in a situation where I am frightened to even turn to Heavenly Father anymore, let alone go back to church (I have been unable to attend with my husband's illness) because it will cause more suffering and heartache in mine and my family's lives.

I'm looking for something to say "yes, that's the case" or "no, that's not the case". I just feel completely at a loss. There's part of me that feels that I should just man up and let whatever awfulness might come happen, but there's another part of me that knows it's not just about me, it's about my family too and I don't want to put them through more distress.

Your thoughts are all most welcome.

XXX

Edited by Stumblinginthemists
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Guest LiterateParakeet

Stumbling,  I'm so sorry for your husband's cancer. What a horrible thing to go through.

I think that people have a tendency to focus on happy endings, particularly in the scriptures and in doing so we forget that suffering is an unpleasant but universal part of this life.  For example, we often talk about "the patience of Job"...but we gloss over what it takes to get that patience. We mention vaguely his trials, but read Job 3.  It's one of my favorite passages in the scriptures because it is so real, so vulnerable. Job was at the end of his rope, wishing he had never been born and longing for death to end his suffering.  It's powerful.

And what we miss by glossing over such deep pain is how we get from there to "patient Job". How do we get through our trials?

The answer...no matter what the trial...and no matter what the cause of the trial is Jesus Christ. He can help us heal..physically, mentall, spiritually. Sometimes that healing we my seek takes time, and like the Savior we must drink our bitter cup (as Elder Holland says in his wonderful talk Like a Broken Vessel).  But when healing is slow, Christ can walk the path and give us the strength to endure.

By not going to church when you can, don't you see that you are turning away from the One, the only One, who can truly guide you through? 

Because of his life and what he suffered in Gethsemane, he is uniquely qualified for the job of healing us. He knows what you are going through, and he know what you need. But he won't force his help on you. You have to take the first step. You have to "knock".  Please don't keep yourselfaway from the One who loves you and has the power to help.

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We cannot go both toward the Savior and away from Him at the same time.  And being mortal, we cannot know what would have happened had we chosen the other direction.  What we can know, is that there is only one way, one truth, one life, and that is found through Jesus Christ.  Therefore, we can logically conclude, that no matter how hard life seems while going toward Him, if we continue toward him, the end result will be infinitely better than any alternative.

John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

As hard as it may be, there's nowhere else to go.

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I've wondered how it is that so many who should know that we are here on earth to be tried have such a difficult time applying and/or accepting the reality of this.

We are here to be tried to see if we will remain faithful in these trials. We must all take up our crosses and follow Him. Think about what that's actually suggesting.

There's a reason that gospel principles include words like enduring, long-suffering and patience. We talk about long-suffering like it doesn't actually mean suffering and enduring to the end like it means enduring...until it gets too hard.

God asks us to remain faithful to him through trials. That's the test. We will all have trials. Every one. Mortality itself is a trial. It is death. It means death. We are here to die -- both physically and spiritually. We are here to suffer the pains, stresses, difficulties, and temptations of the flesh. That's why we're mortal. In those trials we have two choices that represent the core of our agency -- to remain faithful or to turn away.

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23 hours ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

Hi all,

I think I've managed to work myself into a corner and I don't seem to be able to get any sense or response from my ward/stake leaders. I also can't get much sense from studying things out myself, I have been trying for months.

Basically I feel as though whenever things go right in my life, as in things that would please Heavenly Father, something has to come along for me or my family to make things hard. The worst of these being my husband's cancer. And now I'm stuck in a situation where I am frightened to even turn to Heavenly Father anymore, let alone go back to church (I have been unable to attend with my husband's illness) because it will cause more suffering and heartache in mine and my family's lives.

I'm looking for something to say "yes, that's the case" or "no, that's not the case". I just feel completely at a loss. There's part of me that feels that I should just man up and let whatever awfulness might come happen, but there's another part of me that knows it's not just about me, it's about my family too and I don't want to put them through more distress.

Your thoughts are all most welcome.

XXX

Do you think Satan caused your husbands cancer?

 

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20 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Do you think Satan caused your husbands cancer?

 

Now therein lies a rather difficult side to my story; we had a very long engagement (in years) and had our first child together prior to getting married. It has been an interesting journey, partly due to disabilities within our respective families, lots of things. But we'd been together a decade and rightly or wrongly, as my husband isn't a member, it was semi-accepted by my local leadership. I became inactive, had our first child, and then began going back to church.

I finally had my ducks in a row, we married on the 23rd May, by the 14th June my husband was taken into hospital. His nephew (12 at the time) even said that the reason my DH was in hospital was due to him marrying me! LoL. Seriously though, that the main crux of the matter. I feel like if we hadn't got married when we did that the cancer wouldn't have happened. Even though I know logically that's a stupid thing to think, it still is in my head. As if because my ducks were finally getting into order, that something bad had to come along as a punishment almost.

I hope that makes sense, and I sincerely hope it doesn't put anybody off replying to me. xxx

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22 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

By not going to church when you can, don't you see that you are turning away from the One, the only One, who can truly guide you through? 

Because of his life and what he suffered in Gethsemane, he is uniquely qualified for the job of healing us. He knows what you are going through, and he know what you need. But he won't force his help on you. You have to take the first step. You have to "knock".  Please don't keep yourselfaway from the One who loves you and has the power to help.

I've highlighted the main part I took from your post, thank you for replying. Since everything that happened with my husband's cancer, I feel as though things go wrong every time I do turn to to Him, but things go well when I don't. I know that sounds crazy, and I know the good and the bad will come anyway, but it feels as though I'm putting a huge target on my back by turning to Him. I wonder sometimes if we can recognise when we are the tares and if so, wouldn't it be better to step away from the wheat in the first place? xxx

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18 hours ago, zil said:

As hard as it may be, there's nowhere else to go.

I must say that part of what you kindly replied hit me quite hard. You're right, I'm stagnating here, neither progressing towards Him nor really walking away either, because I'm not actively doing anything to jeopardize a relationship with Him, I'm just not acting on it. Food for thought. xxx

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14 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I've wondered how it is that so many who should know that we are here on earth to be tried have such a difficult time applying and/or accepting the reality of this.

We are here to be tried to see if we will remain faithful in these trials. We must all take up our crosses and follow Him. Think about what that's actually suggesting.

There's a reason that gospel principles include words like enduring, long-suffering and patience. We talk about long-suffering like it doesn't actually mean suffering and enduring to the end like it means enduring...until it gets too hard.

God asks us to remain faithful to him through trials. That's the test. We will all have trials. Every one. Mortality itself is a trial. It is death. It means death. We are here to die -- both physically and spiritually. We are here to suffer the pains, stresses, difficulties, and temptations of the flesh. That's why we're mortal. In those trials we have two choices that represent the core of our agency -- to remain faithful or to turn away.

Thank you also for replying. I was listening to one of the Music with a Message podcasts earlier today which reminded me of your post. The basic premise was that the winds of trials will cause some people's flames of faith to blow out while it will fan others, even though it's the same trial. I suppose my problem is that my candle is all but gone. xxx

--- EDITED

As soon as I hit enter then, I realized that's a false thing for me to say. I'm not faithless in the sense that I don't believe in Heavenly Father or the Atonement or Christ or the Restoration etc etc. I'm not faith-less but I'm not faith-full either in that I'm not doing anything to actually work on that relationship. Like any relationship if people aren't willing to work together, then the relationship will wither and die eventually. I suppose I need to work out whether I want that to happen here. xxx

Edited by Stumblinginthemists
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17 minutes ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

Now therein lies a rather difficult side to my story; we had a very long engagement (in years) and had our first child together prior to getting married. It has been an interesting journey, partly due to disabilities within our respective families, lots of things. But we'd been together a decade and rightly or wrongly, as my husband isn't a member, it was semi-accepted by my local leadership. I became inactive, had our first child, and then began going back to church.

I finally had my ducks in a row, we married on the 23rd May, by the 14th June my husband was taken into hospital. His nephew (12 at the time) even said that the reason my DH was in hospital was due to him marrying me! LoL. Seriously though, that the main crux of the matter. I feel like if we hadn't got married when we did that the cancer wouldn't have happened. Even though I know logically that's a stupid thing to think, it still is in my head. As if because my ducks were finally getting into order, that something bad had to come along as a punishment almost.

I hope that makes sense, and I sincerely hope it doesn't put anybody off replying to me. xxx

You won't find the right answers here on the interweb. My recommendation is that you seek out a qualified therapist. 

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11 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You won't find the right answers here on the interweb. My recommendation is that you seek out a qualified therapist. 

It's not something that's really done in the UK and more importantly the Church counsels us to ensure we speak with LDS therapists only who are few and far between. xxx

 

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20 minutes ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

I suppose my problem is that my candle is all but gone. xxx

Maybe it is low, h-o-w-e-v-e-r it is NOT gone. You are seeking advice and help from other LDS people for starters. Someone with their candle totally out might be off getting drunk to mask their problem instead. Don't give up on yourself! I don't agree with the whole idea that this is some form of punishment or bad timing on your part. I would suggest not connecting or letting others help you connect dots between events that are most likely nothing more than coincidence in timing.

8 minutes ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

LDS therapists only who are few and far between. xxx

This concern has been brought up several times on the forum. Just like you are chatting remotely with us, you can do the same with a LDS therapist. The internet has made it so that "few and far between" are more like "several and close at hand". LDS therapist do offer video sessions remotely. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
58 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You won't find the right answers here on the interweb. My recommendation is that you seek out a qualified therapist. 

I agree about the therapist, and I say this as someone who has been and still is in therapy. I'm so familiar with the "logically I realize. This can't be true, but deep down I know it is true."

Those kinds of beliefs don't change just by talking about it casually with friends. You need a trained therapist to help you through it.  Your therapist doesn't have to be LDS. Mine is not. I think in your situation you would want him/her to at least ChristIan though.  

And yes there are therapists who will do therpa via skype, etc. 

As far as other people not doing it who cares? You need to do what's best for you.

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1 hour ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

It's not something that's really done in the UK and more importantly the Church counsels us to ensure we speak with LDS therapists only who are few and far between. xxx

I am sure that therapists have their place for certain individuals. Perhaps a therapist could even help you. But among certain groups in America, therapists are sometimes considered the go-to cure-all. I have heard of New Yorkers who base their dating life on what kind of therapy their potential dates receive -- the assumption being that of course they participate in emotional or psychological therapy.

A loved one saw a counselor for a little under two years. I drove him to the appointments and occasionally, at his invitation, participated in the session. From what I could see, the therapist was basically a paid friend -- someone to talk to and who could offer you feedback and opinions from a different, perhaps more mature, viewpoint. Finding a trusted friend would probably do the same good and cost a whole lot less. Just one man's opinion.

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1 hour ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

It's not something that's really done in the UK and more importantly the Church counsels us to ensure we speak with LDS therapists only who are few and far between. xxx

 

I am unsure of the culture in the UK with regards to therapists, but you should see one. Also I would like for you to show me where it says that the church counsels us to speak with LDS therapists only. I submit without doing any research that it is none of the church's business as to the religion of the therapist.

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22 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I am unsure of the culture in the UK with regards to therapists, but you should see one. Also I would like for you to show me where it says that the church counsels us to speak with LDS therapists only. I submit without doing any research that it is none of the church's business as to the religion of the therapist.

The best way I can explain it would be that the fact a lot of Americans use counseling services etc is a subject of ridicule over here in the media.

The church's counsel is on the basis of finding an LDS counselor, probably sound advise particularly in the UK given that we are becoming more and more an atheist country. The idea is that a counselor who is not LDS might not understand exactly what is going on. Imagine describing to someone who you are talking to about your mental health, that you believe in a faith "started" by a 14 year old boy in New York around 200 years ago, that you believe that there is a Prophet on the earth today. You're not going to get very far without being sectioned (not sure what the US term is here, but where you would be taken into a mental health institution for your own protection).

Mental health is still very much something that is hidden in the UK, it's still associated with the asylums of old rather than being something that we can positively and proactively help/assist/exercise. There seems to be a general consensus that anyone needing mental health assistance must be at the far end of the scale and be a full blown lunatic. Sorry I know that's not particularly politically correct but I can't think of any other way to say it.

xxx

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58 minutes ago, Vort said:

I am sure that therapists have their place for certain individuals. Perhaps a therapist could even help you. But among certain groups in America, therapists are sometimes considered the go-to cure-all. I have heard of New Yorkers who base their dating life on what kind of therapy their potential dates receive -- the assumption being that of course they participate in emotional or psychological therapy.

A loved one saw a counselor for a little under two years. I drove him to the appointments and occasionally, at his invitation, participated in the session. From what I could see, the therapist was basically a paid friend -- someone to talk to and who could offer you feedback and opinions from a different, perhaps more mature, viewpoint. Finding a trusted friend would probably do the same good and cost a whole lot less. Just one man's opinion.

Vort, unfortunately that is what I've tried to do with speaking to one or two of my stake leaders but it seems like it may be too difficult or an unwanted task to deal. Loved the "Psychotherapist" cartoon, that was fab - I've never realized that was how the word broke down before! xxx

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2 hours ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

As soon as I hit enter then, I realized that's a false thing for me to say. I'm not faithless in the sense that I don't believe in Heavenly Father or the Atonement or Christ or the Restoration etc etc. I'm not faith-less but I'm not faith-full either in that I'm not doing anything to actually work on that relationship. Like any relationship if people aren't willing to work together, then the relationship will wither and die eventually. I suppose I need to work out whether I want that to happen here.

In my experience, if you can bring yourself to let go of whatever is holding you back, and work hard on your relationship with God and Jesus Christ, things will turn around (even if it's only your perception and ability to handle challenges).  Read the scriptures every day (even if you can only manage a few verses or minutes), go to church every week, sing the hymns.  Simple things like these, continued over time, can make a big difference, when done willingly.

Best wishes for you in your trials; I'll remember you in my prayers.

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1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I agree about the therapist, and I say this as someone who has been and still is in therapy. I'm so familiar with the "logically I realize. This can't be true, but deep down I know it is true."

Those kinds of beliefs don't change just by talking about it casually with friends. You need a trained therapist to help you through it.  Your therapist doesn't have to be LDS. Mine is not. I think in your situation you would want him/her to at least ChristIan though.  

And yes there are therapists who will do therpa via skype, etc. 

As far as other people not doing it who cares? You need to do what's best for you.

For me it's more a case of logically I know it can't be true, deep down I know it can't be true, but there is just that small niggling little voice of doubt that causes me to pause.

I'm not sure a christian therapist would be particularly helpful, given some Christian denominations hatred of LDS. It's not possible under UK law for me to even ask about the religion of a would be therapist.

However, that said, it's not something I am discounting completely, it is just a different avenue to explore. I'm not really clear how seeing a therapist, LDS or not, will help with regards to my relationship with Heavenly Father and the Church but... at this point in time I am pretty much open to anything. xxx

 

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8 minutes ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

However, that said, it's not something I am discounting completely, it is just a different avenue to explore. I'm not really clear how seeing a therapist, LDS or not, will help with regards to my relationship with Heavenly Father and the Church but... at this point in time I am pretty much open to anything.

Whether it's a counselor or a bishop, one of the good things about having someone else to guide you through this kind of change is that they can help you set goals (with deadlines and a next appointment where you know they're going to ask how you did), they can help you answer the hard questions that you might shy away from on your own, and they can tell you how it looks from the outside, etc..  Whether you need those benefits or not, I couldn't begin to say, just wanted to point out some things that a second party can help with (if that second party is a friend or family, their feelings for you might interfere with those benefits - or they might not, just depends on them and you...).

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49 minutes ago, Stumblinginthemists said:

The church's counsel is on the basis of finding an LDS counselor, probably sound advise particularly in the UK given that we are becoming more and more an atheist country. The idea is that a counselor who is not LDS might not understand exactly what is going on. 

You have hit it spot on. If given the choice, assuming everything else is equal, I personally would always chose to see a LDS therapist. I saw a LDS therapist. A couple of things that stand out from my meetings. 

1. First meeting with her she says, "My job is to put myself out of work, I'm happy to be jobless because that means I did my job with you".

2. She said "12 meetings (once a week for 3 months) is our goal, nothing more unless there are some extreme circumstances". After 11 meetings we wrapped things up.

3. While in the fog, it is hard to see "how" a therapist is going to help, but that is the point. If you could see the "how" then you probably wouldn't need their help. 

4. My meetings were 1/3 psychology/personal history stuff AND 2/3 Atonement, forgiveness, gospel healing, love of the Savior etc. 

True, lasting enduring healing, in my opinion, only comes from the Atonement. Had I gone to a non-LDS counselor, I would have missed out on the Atonement aspect and still be clinging to worldly psychology only. My counselor had my best interest in mind, and wasn't looking to turn herself into my paid friend for the next several years. 

My 2 cents. (and got a whole pocket full of change)

Edited by NeedleinA
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