LDS A or An LDS

[Guest]

I'm beginning to feel in the minority on a quirk of language.  Growing up, I always used the initialism LDS as an adjective (that's an LDS Temple).  I see/hear others using it as a noun (She's an LDS).  When I hear such usage, I always wince.  But then I realize what the initialism stands for and it makes sense.  It is indeed a noun before it is an adjective.  But each time I come across it again, I wince again.  I keep telling myself "get over it!"  But...habit.

So, how common is it for people here to use it as a noun?

[NeedleinA]

nunca (never) for me. "She is LDS" but never "She's an LDS".

[beefche]

I usually say "She's LDS" but, "that's a LDS show". So, maybe my distinction is when I'm using LDS as the complete adjective I leave off the indefinite article. When it is part of the adjective prior to a noun, then I use the indefinite article "a" (since "L" is a consonant, I use "a" instead of "an").

 

[Guest]

Beef,

In both cases you used it as an adjective, not a noun.  Maybe my title was misleading.  I was using the first "A" as an algebraic abstraction in place of a noun.

So "LDS A" would use "LDS" as an adjective for the noun "A".

"An LDS" would indicated the usage of "LDS" as a noun like "An Ox".

Edited February 19, 2016 by Guest

[beefche]

1 hour ago, beefche said:

I usually say "She's LDS" but, "that's a LDS show". So, maybe my distinction is when I'm using LDS as the complete adjective I leave off the indefinite article. When it is part of the adjective prior to a noun, then I use the indefinite article "a" (since "L" is a consonant, I use "a" instead of "an").

 

Yes, I know they are both adjectives. Perhaps I wasn't clear. When I use "LDS" as the ONLY adjective, I do not use an article with it. When I use "LDS" directly in front of a noun, then I use the article "a." 

Using another adjective as an example.  She is pretty. (notice no article). She is a pretty girl. (notice the article "a"). Same thing:  She is LDS. She is a LDS girl. 

[beefche]

And as a side note, I was always taught to use "a" when the next word begins with a consonant. I use "an" when the next word begins with a vowel. Since LDS begins with a consonant, I use "a" instead of "an" when I use the article.

[Vort]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm beginning to feel in the minority on a quirk of language.  Growing up, I always used the initialism LDS as an adjective (that's an LDS Temple).  I see/hear others using it as a noun (She's an LDS).  When I hear such usage, I always wince.  But then I realize what the initialism stands for and it makes sense.  It is indeed a noun before it is an adjective.  But each time I come across it again, I wince again.  I keep telling myself "get over it!"  But...habit.

So, how common is it for people here to use it as a noun?

I agree, it makes sense. I also agree, it makes me wince. In spoken language, I only use "LDS" as an adjective, never as a noun, and very, very rarely (basically never) as a noun when writing.

I do often use "LDSly" as an adverb, though, and I look for opportunities to use "to LDS" as a verb. Sometimes I try slipping "LDS" in as a pronoun, just to see if anyone is paying attention. Using "LDS" as a conjunction and a preposition (especially at the same time) is beyond me at this point, but I haven't given up.

[Guest]

I say Mormon, even though I know I'm not really supposed to. More often I say "Member of the Church", because Latter-day Saint feels weird to me for some reason.

[Vort]

3 hours ago, beefche said:

And as a side note, I was always taught to use "a" when the next word begins with a consonant. I use "an" when the next word begins with a vowel. Since LDS begins with a consonant, I use "a" instead of "an" when I use the article.

We think of "vowels" and "consonants" as letters -- "The vowels are 'a', 'e', 'i', 'o', and 'u', and sometimes 'y', and sometimes 'w' if you're speaking Middle English or words based on Welsh." (What? That's how *I* learned it. Didn't you?) But in reality, a vowel is a sound, as is a consonant (that's the "-son-" in "consonant"). And we use "a" or "an" based on sound, not on spelling.

For example, we say "Give me an 'R'" because "R" is pronounced /är/, which is an initial vowel sound, and we say "Give me a 'U'" because "U" is pronounced /ju/, with an initial consonant sound. This, despite the fact that "R" is a consonant and "U" is a vowel. To be more precise, "R" is a letter that represents a consonant sound, and "U" is a letter that (usually) represents a vowel sound.

So, "an LDS meetinghouse" is correct; "a LDS meetinghouse" is not, and sounds stilted and wrong. Note that you will often hear those for whom English is a second language speak like this. Why? Because they are taught that "You use 'an' before words that begin with a vowel and 'a' before words that begin with a consonant," and hey, "L" is a consonant. But as we have discussed above, that's a no-go.

On a related note: Before I learned Italian, I often intentionally would say (for example) "I wish I was going" instead of "I wish I were going", because the latter seemed like it must be wrong, even though it sounded better. I don't say "I were going to Spokane yesterday", so why would I say "If I were going to Spokane"? At some point in my Italian experience, after learning and using the subjunctive mood, I thought about English and realized that were is the English subjunctive conjugation in the above situation. So I had to retrain myself to use it again. Lesson: Trust your gut (and your ear).

Edited February 19, 2016 by Vort

[Guest]

I really don't know why anyone has a problem with calling ourselves "Mormons".  Hence the Hinckley speech on "Mormon means More Good".  Hence the name of the foundation that runs this website.

The only times in my lifetime that there was pushback was for missionary purposes.  We were advised to call ourselves LDS or members of (full name of Church) when we had the Olympics here in LA and in SLC.  This was, I believe, not a theologic pronouncement, but a missionary tool to get people talking to these teams and their associates who came from all over the world -- to let them know that Mormons believe in Jesus Christ.

The earlier LDS (noun) would hear this epithet from the haters of the era and just think, "Uhm... Yeah, Mormon was a pretty good guy to be called after.  Whatever."

[Guest]

Weren't we counseled at some point to avoid using "Mormon", at least in reference to the Church? Maybe it wasn't so much in reference to ourselves...

[prisonchaplain]

 

I'm a strong advocate of calling people what they want to be called.  "Mormons" are LDS. "Anti-lifers" are pro-choice (wish they'd extend us that courtesy...grouse, grouse!). I've never heard LDS used as a noun, until today. However, if this becomes a thing please cc me when the memo goes out.

[Blackmarch]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm beginning to feel in the minority on a quirk of language.  Growing up, I always used the initialism LDS as an adjective (that's an LDS Temple).  I see/hear others using it as a noun (She's an LDS).  When I hear such usage, I always wince.  But then I realize what the initialism stands for and it makes sense.  It is indeed a noun before it is an adjective.  But each time I come across it again, I wince again.  I keep telling myself "get over it!"  But...habit.

So, how common is it for people here to use it as a noun?

common.

[Guest]

PC,

I honestly don't know anyone who was offended at being called a "Mormon".  Obviously, if you use the right tone, anything can sound offensive.  But the term itself isn't really "offensive".  But it is considered inaccurate/improper from a technical, not emotional perspective.  But we fully recognize it is the vernacular in the English Speaking World.  

I myself will go back and forth between LDS and Mormon when describing myself or the Church.  Whenever someone uses it to describe me, I don't bother correcting them because it doesn't bother me.

Ironically, it is somewhat the same as the saints of the New Testament.  They called themselves "Saints".  It was the non-Saints that called them Christians as an epithet.  Many of them said, "Uhm... yeah, that's ok if you call us followers of the One True God.  Whatever."  Eventually it just got to be too common until Saints were calling themselves "Christians".

Pres. Hinckley's talk "Mormon" means "More Good."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1990/10/mormon-should-mean-more-good?lang=eng

Edited February 19, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Weren't we counseled at some point to avoid using "Mormon", at least in reference to the Church? Maybe it wasn't so much in reference to ourselves...

Yes, as I said in the previous post.

Quote

The only times in my lifetime that there was pushback was for missionary purposes ... This was, I believe, not a theologic pronouncement, but a missionary tool  ...

 

[Guest]

I wasn't sure if you were referring to your mission or the Church as a whole. I didn't remember it being specifically for missionary purposes, but my memory isn't clear. 

[Guest]

I stated that as my personal belief based on the timing.  They didn't specifically say it was for missionary purposes that I recall either.  I usually hear this push back whenever there is a major international event.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Guest

[Jane_Doe]

28 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Weren't we counseled at some point to avoid using "Mormon", at least in reference to the Church? Maybe it wasn't so much in reference to ourselves...

There was a push back for that in the 90's, because the church owns the copyright to the full name, but not to "Mormon".  Such push has since been abandoned.  The "I'm a Mormon" campaign and "mormon.org" are evidence of it.  

[Guest]

So, there may have been legal aspects to it as well.  Interesting.

Again, I get the impression that it was never intended to be a pronouncement that we should take offense at being called a Mormon.  It really is just a technically defining line.

I remember the line in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers about "those folks north of us."  "No, them's not women.  Them's Mormons."

I also remember the Cheers episode where they found out Robin's last name was "Mormon".  So they cracked Mormon jokes through the episode.

Again on cheers, Rebecca looked as the flowers Robin sent her,"Aww.  Why can't more men send flowers?"

Sam: "Why can't Mormons send flowers?"
 

Edited February 19, 2016 by Guest

[Vort]

I know they can't dance.

You just can't discuss religion with some people.

[beefche]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

 

I also remember the Cheers episode where they found out Robin's last name was "Mormon".  So they cracked Mormon jokes through the episode.

Again on cheers, Rebecca looked as the flowers Robin sent her,"Aww.  Why can't more men send flowers?"

Sam: "Why can't Mormons send flowers?"
 

 

According to IMDB, Robin's last name was "Colcord."

[Vort]

19 minutes ago, beefche said:

According to IMDB, Robin's last name was "Colcord."

Yeah, I think the joke was that Sam misunderstood "more men send" as "Mormons send".

[mordorbund]

I prefer Mormonite.

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

I prefer Mormonite.

We considered doing our kitchen counters in mormonite, but we settled on corian.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, beefche said:

According to IMDB, Robin's last name was "Colcord."

That's right.  It was.  So who was it?  Was it that Mormon was his middle name?  It had something to do with that.  Maybe it was another character.  Whatever.  Besides I just looked up the flower thing and apparently my memory is a bit mixed up.  I haven't see it in about a dozen years.  But here was a list of Mormon references in TV.  I liked the Golden Girls reference.

http://www.deseretnews.com/top/2240/1/0Day-of-the-Evil-Gun1-1968.html

Edited February 19, 2016 by Guest