Cremation / Casket Viewings

[NeedleinA]

So, as I have attended a couple of funerals, I can't help but be reminded of my own mortality. So a couple of thoughts / questions:

1. Cremation: Any thoughts on this subject? The church has an opinion, but not what I would describe as a hard line doctrine. Countries vary. Laws vary too. We had an inactive family cremate their father mostly related to a financial concern? Seems cheaper to me. Not looking to hang onto a vase and worship it, but just from a budget standpoint?

2. Being viewed in your casket: I personally don't want to be viewed in my casket. I would prefer others remember me alive. I have attended a handful of viewings and that is not how I want people to remember me. Your thoughts?

[zil]

Were it not for the fact that to me Handbook 2 seems to discourage it (and I'm not sure I like the idea of burning temple clothes, if that's even an option), I would opt for cremation - cheap(er), relatively fast, and simple.  But given those two things, I've already opted not to do this.

Not only do I not plan to be viewed, I don't want to be embalmed (or the other very nasty stuff they do to a body), and I don't want a funeral.  If someone wants to show up at the graveside, fine - a graveside service seems like enough for me.  If they want to have a party (for whatever reason), fine.  If they want it to look like a funeral, fine, but not with my body there in a coffin.  As soon as I'm gone (or discovered, which seems more likely), toss me in a (cheap) box and bury us (me and my box).

I don't have any qualms about dead bodies, I just don't like the funeral industry and don't want to contribute to them.  I also don't feel terribly attached to the trappings and ceremonies of mortality.  (That I don't have children and I'm not likely to have another husband before I die makes things simpler.)

And after some of the obituaries I've indexed, I plan to write my own obituary, with blanks for filling in the date (in the proper format).  Not that I expect anyone to pay a newspaper to print my obituary, but just in case they do, I want it done right.  I might even publish it ahead of time, on my website, just to avoid the rush.

As for how people remember you - of all the people I've seen in caskets (not that many), I don't remember them like that.  I remember events in their lives that I shared with them.  I have to think about it to remember them in their casket, and I can't remember all of them that way, even if I try.  So I suspect people's memories of you will vary from person to person.

[Backroads]

I personally have no problem with cremation other than the handbook discouragement, which I figure is worth some respect. I understand in many countries cremation is just the way to go, and I doubt the Church will fuss much in that regard. Personally, if it weren't for the assumption my family would probably like to follow the handbook's wishes, I'd go for a cremation and have my ashes scattered somewhere and join the cycle of organic matter... It just seems cheaper and more practical and, in its way, quite lovely.

In most regards... I figure I'm dead, what do I care, and will let my family do what they want.

My mother, who probably has quite a few decades' left in her, is already planning her funeral and has been doing so for years. (She's not morbid or anything, she just likes things just so.)

[Vort]

My dad was cremated. Still kind of bothers me, but whatever. Not my choice. My mother will also be cremated, at her own request.

Viewings are a strange custom, but it's a custom I'm used to and rather like as a way to say a final good-bye and reinforce the reality of the death.

[Guest]

My dad insisted on closed casket. We honored that and I was glad of it. Any family members who wanted to see him were welcome to go to the funeral home in the days before the service to do so. Anyone else is just morbidly curious, if you ask me. 

He was gone from his body immediately after he died. I knew that and felt that. My brothers and mom dressed him at the funeral home, and it was a special experience for them.

I think the wishes of the deceased should be honored, and I think families need to talk about it so we know what those wishes are.

[Guest]

I kind of like the idea of being cremated, except for some misgivings because of the Church's recommendation. Probably because I'm a tight wad.  I wouldn't want anyone to have to look at an urn or box with my remains it in day after day, though. Were I to be cremated, I'd want my remains sprinkled somewhere that I love, like the valley where my family roots are, or in the mountains somewhere. 

[Ironhold]

Given the way my life's been going, when I do finally die I doubt that there will be enough left of me to bury. 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Given the way my life's been going, when I do finally die I doubt that there will be enough left of me to bury. 

 

 I have an image of you randomly shedding body parts now. 

[classylady]

I'm with Vort on this. I kind of like the culture of the viewing and the funeral. It seems to bring closure to family and friends. I know it does help me.

When we had the funeral/viewing for my daughter it was closed casket (no choice because of damage to her face from the car accident), I had several people tell me years later that they never had closure because they didn't see her body in the casket. That may seem rather gruesome to some out there, but it seems to bring closure to some family and friends.

As to the funeral itself, I feel this is a time for people to come together and grieve over the loss of a loved one. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want friends and family to come together and celebrate the life of their loved one and mourn with one another. I feel it shows respect for the life of their loved one. And, make no mistake, there is intense grieving over the loss. It seems to help when we grieve together. It brings comfort to those of us left behind.

Edited February 22, 2016 by classylady

[NeedleinA]

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts/ideas/experiences thus far. I honestly just hit the "reply" button and have been frozen here for about 10 minutes not really sure what to say. I realize that though I started the thread more as curiosity questions, that this is in fact, a very sensitive and dear subject to many of you. So thank you!

Can I ask one other question? I have been involved with dressing several people (non-family) at the funeral home prior to being placed in the casket. Have any of you done this for actual "family" members? Would you do it again, or is it better to have non-family do it for you? I am curious of the pain OR love involved with handling a deceased family member.

[NeedleinA]

3 hours ago, Vort said:

My dad was cremated. Still kind of bothers me, 

In a sincere/respectful way Vort, may I ask where this sentiment comes from? 

[zil]

12 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

I have been involved with dressing several people (non-family) at the funeral home prior to being placed in the casket. Have any of you done this for actual "family" members? Would you do it again, or is it better to have non-family do it for you? I am curious of the pain OR love involved with handling a deceased family member.

I dressed my mom with the help of my sister-in-law and some sisters from the RS in my mom's ward.  For me, there wasn't really any more pain there than simply from the fact that she was gone.  But I knew where she was and what she was doing, so handling the mortal necessities wasn't so difficult for me (though I wasn't sure how it would be until I was doing it).

As for whether it's better for family or others to do it, I think it will vary from person to person - I'm sure some people just couldn't, and that's OK.  IMO, the only important thing is that it be someone worthy and who will approach it with an appropriate attitude.

[Iggy]

I have been to way too many funerals. The majority of which have been open casket. NOT one of the deceased looked anything but dead. UGH! My oldest sister passed in Nov of 2004. She was morbidly obese (nearly 700 pounds). The cost of a cemetery plot was beyond what the family could afford without mortgaging all of our homes, as well as a casket. No way could there be pall bearers either - at her request she was cremated. In Washington State the cremains do not have to be in a restricted vessel. Our next oldest sister found a beautiful locking jewelry box that once the parts that held rings, necklaces and earrings was removed worked wonderfully as her Urn.

As for the Church's official stance on cremation - as their Stake President said, it is not really a "Thus Saith The Lord" stance. You have your own personal preference and the church pretty much will not interfere. As for burning the ceremonial clothes, letting them rot on the body in the ground is better??? There was no way my sister could be 'dressed' - her clothes were in the envelope and placed atop her body.

Is the Church going to condemn someone who was killed in a fire and whose family just cannot afford a casket AND plot of land? We would have had to cremate my Dad and Mom if it had not been that Dad was a Veteran and the cemetery plot AND caskets were paid for by the US Government.

My MIL knew of the church's views on cremation, yet that is what she told her boys and wrote to all of her blood kin that she wanted. She wanted a memorial too. A celebration of the life she had led, not a mourning of her passing. In Arizona we had to place her cremains in a flood/earthquake proof metal Urn AND when placed in the ground next to her husband in a flood/earthquake proof vault. The vault was made out of some kind of space age super strong plastics. The Urn cost just under $75.00 with the etching of the Mesa Temple and her name and stats engraved on it. The vault cost over $600.00!!

Hubby and I will be cremated. I have to research what Oregon's law is regarding the disposition of the cremains. I want to encase the cremains in a cement bench and place the bench in the local cemetery rather than have them buried in the ground. The available plots are diminishing at the cemetery - BUT there is plenty of room for benches. They prefer cement over wood.Lasts a lot longer.

Regarding MIL. With the help of my RS Pres. we dressed her. It was haphazard as MIL passed while she was in MO visiting her second son. MO laws are that all deceased must be autopsied. Because her funeral expenses were pre-paid and included the cost of shipping her from any state in the US to her residence in AZ, the funeral home in MO got a stipend ($65.00) compared to what they tried to charge us. ($6,000.00) thus they did a seriously bad job of it. They also delayed shipping her to AZ. She passed 11 Feb and she didn't arrive in AZ until 14 March. By law we couldn't actually remove the protective plastic the funeral home place on her, so we had to 'drape' everything. Not actually dress her. We also had to wear protective clothing provided by the funeral home: gloves, mask, covering over our clothes.

I had never dressed anyone before. After the RS Pres explained that what we had just done was not the 'normal' dressing. About 4 months later she called and asked if I would assist her with the dressing of one of the sisters from the ward. This sister had no female relatives to do it. I was more than happy to assist. This sister had been one of MIL's best friends and in doing this I felt as though I was helping to get her ready to meet up with MIL.

Before my RS Pres and I went in to dress MIL, her husband and the two ward councilors met us at the funeral home to offer a prayer before we went in. I was so afraid they would be in attendance too, MIL would have been mortified, she was so very modest. It was bad enough that the funeral director had to be in there, BUT he kept a respectful distance so he actually couldn't see in detail what we were doing, putting on her. ONE good thing, he too was an endowed member of the church.

[Maureen]

9 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

2. Being viewed in your casket: I personally don't want to be viewed in my casket. I would prefer others remember me alive. I have attended a handful of viewings and that is not how I want people to remember me. Your thoughts?

IMO, viewing the deceased person is a way to bring closure and acceptance that their loved one has moved on. Most people when they view a family member, realize that the body is not really their loved one, but the vessel that once housed their loved one. To me, the viewing of the body and the funeral in general are for the living family members - a way to say good-bye.

M.

[Guest]

One of my brothers didn't make it home before Dad died, so I think dressing him was that much more important. My other brothers, even the one who's left the Church, talk about it like a holy and healing thing. Most significant to me was one brother talking about Dad's hands... his wedding ring worn thin, the scrapes and scars from working hard til the end, identifying marks that helped make him, him. I think it was a good thing. My mom wants me to do her hair and makeup and has told me how. She doesn't want the funeral home making her look like a clown.

[NeedleinA]

Again, thank you to everyone for sharing such personal moments, and doing so with such detail. This for me has been very eye opening. I'll probably have my wife come read the thread too. 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

I have been involved with dressing several people (non-family) at the funeral home prior to being placed in the casket. Have any of you done this for actual "family" members? Would you do it again, or is it better to have non-family do it for you? I am curious of the pain OR love involved with handling a deceased family member.

I helped dress Dad. I am very glad I did. It was as if I were doing a final service for him, even though it really wasn't a service for him. I also went, along with one of my brothers, to the funeral home for his cremation. That was really hard, but again, I'm glad I did.

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

In a sincere/respectful way Vort, may I ask where this sentiment comes from? 

Don't know. I occasionally (rarely) dream about Dad. I dreamed about him a couple of weeks ago -- he's always young when I dream about him, with black hair -- but I felt uneasy and sad during the dream. When I awoke, I thought about it and realized that my unease had to do with mourning about the loss of his body. Strange, probably stupid, but there you go.

[NeedleinA]

Thank you Vort for sharing that.

[Sunday21]

In my family, the custom is to cremate. I spoke to a former bishop and he said that if the custom in your family is to cremate, then you can be cremated. My mother wants to be cremated and have the ashes enterred in my sisters backyard along with the ashes of several predeceased family members. This is illegal in my country so I cannot do this personally. My ashes will have to do elsewhere.

[Ironhold]

5 hours ago, Eowyn said:

 

 I have an image of you randomly shedding body parts now. 

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Driver-Dies-When-Car-Crashes-Into-Local-Building-Bursts-Into-Flames-204849911.html#storyVideo

The building you see here is next door to the building where I work. 

I was on shift at the time, and so I'm the one who made the initial 9/11 call. 

The kid was so blasted on alcohol, weed, and Xanax that he probably didn't feel a thing when the impact nearly decapitated him. 

This is *not* the only time I have had to respond to a drunk-driving accident *or* the only time I've had to run towards a fire to try and save people. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by Ironhold

[Vort]

I seem to remember this. Did you mention it before?

[Ironhold]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I seem to remember this. Did you mention it before?

At this point, I don't remember. 

Suffice to say though, that I've had such a bizarre life most people who don't already know me don't believe it all. 

[Guest]

So...

China just passed a law to ban strippers from funerals.  Yep.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I'm very fascinated with this topic...not just for myself but I'm interested in the topic of death and dying in general.

I realize I won't be in my body when I'm dead, but since I've never experienced death before, it is hard to imagine it...so cremation scares me because I'm afraid of fire, and a casket freaks me out because I'm claustrophobic.  But I don't want to be left in the woods, or tossed in the ocean.  I read that doctors don't donate their bodies to science because they know what happens to them (basically med students dissect, dissect, dissect until there is a pile of tissue that no longer resembles a human body.)  So what to do?  I would like a Jewish type burial.  Wrap me in a shroud and put me on a shelf in a cave.  That sounds good.  

As far as attending other people's viewings and funerals....Here's something I wrote after my mother died:

     I've alway felt uncomfortable at funerals and viewings.  I have never dealt with death well. (What is dealing well anyway? What I mean is, funerals completely unhinge me.)  When my mother-in-law passed away, I decided that I did not want to attend the viewing.  I wanted my last memory of her to be when she was alive.  And so it is.

    . . . So I didn't attend my mother-in-law's viewing.  I decided this was a much better way, for me at least, to deal with death.  I would have avoided my own mother's viewing also--if it weren't for my sister, Ginger.

     Because of my discomfort with death, I was surprised when Ginger told me that she planned to help prepare my Mom for the viewing.  She wanted to help with Mom's hair, make-up and nails.  In spite of my discomfort with the idea, I couldn't help but think that would be a beautiful act of service on Ginger's part.  If I am honest, I guess I felt a little jealous.  Still, I didn't think it was something I could ever do.

     When the day of the viewing arrived, my feelings had not changed, but I couldn't bear to let my sister go to the mortuary alone. 

    . . . . So with deep reservations, I accompanied them to the mortuary.  When the mortician met us at the door with a friendly smile, I have to confess, I was a bit suspicious.  How dare he smile, and who would choose a profession like this anyway? 

     Ginger had brought some of my mother's things to decorate the room where the viewing would be held.  I was initially reluctant to go to "the room in the back" so I was assigned the job of decorating. Having some quiet time alone with my mother's cherished things, presenting them lovingly for others to view, brought some torn pieces of my heart back into place.  I finished before they were done in the back room, so I enjoyed a little more time of quiet contemplation and healing.

    I cherish the time I spent alone with my mom's things, listening to Marty Robbins on the overhead speakers (one of my mom's favorites).  Perhaps it was my sister's example, or setting out my mother's things, but something in me shifted.  When Ginger came out for a moment, I decided that I wanted to go with her to the back room

     When I first entered, seeing my mother lying on a table with her open coffin nearby was a bit of a shock, and I took a seat in the farthest chair, questioning my decision for a moment.  But as the mortician, Tim and Ginger worked and carried on a light banter, I found the courage to venture closer.

    My mom had always said she wanted to be buried in her boots.  Ginger chose for her some beautiful moccasin-type boots that my mom had adored.  Slowly, I worked my way up from her boots, to her black pants, to her shirt with geometric diamonds in a dark burgundy, to her face.  She looked to peaceful that I smiled through my tears.

    Ginger was standing at her head curling her hair.  Tim was putting makeup on her hands.  Perhaps it was the peaceful expression on my mother's face that helped me to see what loving gestures these were.  Not only on the part of my sister, but on Tim's part as well. In that moment, I understood that caregiving does not end with death. Hesitantly, I reached out and put my hand on my mom's arm.

     That evening during the viewing, the same Marty Robbins music played.  My mom would have loved it.  I told someone teasingly that Marty Robbins was ruined for me because in the future whenever I hear "El Paso" or his other songs, I will be taken back to that mortuary.  I realize now though that 'ruined' is the wrong word because whenever  I hear Marty Robbins, I will remember--not only my mother's peaceful expression, but Ginger's loving act of caregiving.  

     And I will smile at the beauty and wonder of it. 

 

[Backroads]

6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

So...

China just passed a law to ban strippers from funerals.  Yep.

This was was a problem?