Cremation / Casket Viewings


NeedleinA
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My take on the matter: Funerals and death arrangements are for the living.  Don't get in their way as they go about handling their dead.  When I hear about the folks who are going against the wishes of the deceased, I keep quiet and just try to mourn with them.  It means when I experience friction or awkwardness or high emotion when people clash on the subject, I ask myself "who is mourning", and then I go stand with them.  

Yes, that means when someone got upset with my opinion and offered a strong retort "Funerals are to honor the dead!", I made sure I went to the funeral he was emotional about, and honored the dead like he wanted.  I was there to support the living, in a way the living valued.  

I hate funerals, because I end up uncontrollably sobbing.  It doesn't even matter whether I knew the person that well or not.  I've learned to deal with myself by finding the back of the group, next to a garbage can, and bringing my own box of kleenex.  I actually cry so much I bring a water bottle to replace what's leaking out of me.  I have to stay out of sight, or I end up the center of attention.

Mom wanted to be cremated, and to sit on a shelf so she could "be there" to see my wife and kid.  I honored that wish, until her parents and some siblings voiced wanting to have her ashes buried with the family.  Grandpa had just died, and they offered to handle all the details, so I handed over the urn.  Dad wanted to be buried in the Veterans National Cemetery in Santa Fe, so that's what he got.  FYI, our WWII vets are dying so often, that they weren't doing graveside services there, because of all the heavy equipment in constant use digging graves.  

My buddy died last year in a car crash - left behind 4 kids from 5 to mission age.  He was larger than life in life.  His kids were very involved in prepping the body.  During the viewing, as conversations would spring up around the casket, one daughter would stroke the corpses hair and talk to him like he was still there.  That is stuff to not judge, even though it gave me the willies.  She wasn't stroking a corpses hair, she was trying to find a way to say goodbye to her dad.

My wife's take on her death is fine with me: "Do with me whatever is in the best interests of my children."  

Finally, IMO, funeral directors and morticians are like used car salesmen, and are to be handled as such.  They use tricks to increase the amount of money that goes from you to them.  You probably want to honor your dead, and they're there to make sure they help you honor, which involves giving them lots and lots and lots of money for expensive goods and services.  When you pick practical or simple, you'll be doing it in spite of dood's efforts to convey the notion that you are dishonoring the dearly departed, because you're not picking the good stuff or full service.  That you place money in higher value than your lived one.   IMO, when making funeral arrangements, treat them like a business adversary.  That doesn't mean be rude, it does mean you will end up with lose/win unless you are tough and tell them what they don't want to hear.  

Edited by NeuroTypical
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My attitude on these matters may be considered a bit extreme by some, but it's only because, in my own way, I try to be as pragmatic as I can.

I lost my mom in July of 2014.  (Yes, it still hurts like a #$&^#@ but I talk about it because it helps.)  She was my best friend and the only person in the world I could vent to when I'd have an argument with my wife.*  (My wife vented to her too.  My mom was THAT awesome.) 

*My relationship with my wife is AMAZING, so I don't mean to give the impression that we're having any serious problems.  People just fight sometimes, that's all, and it's good to have someone there you can talk to who sees things more objectively.

When she lay dying in the hospice place from lung cancer, all of the responsibility fell to me to take care of things.  She had once asked to be cremated (despite being a Catholic, which traditionally pushes a bit harder for burial than the LDS do).  This is the same decisions I would have made if it were up to me, because funeral homes, caskets, etc. are obscenely expensive.  Even cremation was well over $3,000 and I had to borrow money from my aunt to cover it.  As for the ashes... It was a box of ashes, nothing more.  My mother is no more in that box than she is on Mars, and I was a little bewildered as to what should do with it.  The matter was resolved perfectly when  my aunt seemed concerned to know what I was planning to do with them, so I just gave them to her.  That really meant a lot to her and she wants to be buried with them.  Okay with me.  I see no reason to object to that.

My aunt arranged to have a small memorial service at her church, which I assume meant she put some money in the collection plate for.  I don't know but I can tell you it was a lot cheaper than using a funeral home.

For me, I've made it clear that I really don't give a fig what's done with my body after I take my leave of it.  Donating it to science is my first choice, because that's the least expensive option for my family.  I'd much prefer that whatever money would have been spent on my final expenses be distributed among my kids and grandkids (assuming I live long enough to have some) to enjoy as my last gift to them.  Why buy an expensive casket when the same money can buy somebody a car?  Why spend thousands on a funeral when you can spend about 200 bucks on a party and put the rest in somebody's college fund?  Cremation is my second choice because it's still relatively cheap.  I've already warned my family that if they spend even one penny over what's absolutely necessary to simply dispose of my body, I will come back and haunt them mercilessly.

Edited by unixknight
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Guest LiterateParakeet

Unixknight, I considered donating my body to science for the same reason. But I've changed my mind (back to the drawing  board). I just wanted to say I don't think you're extreme. :)

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33 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Unixknight, I considered donating my body to science for the same reason. But I've changed my mind (back to the drawing  board). I just wanted to say I don't think you're extreme. :)

Thanks.  I guess it sometimes feels like I'm being extreme because a lot of people are put off by my attitude on how to deal with the body.  I think of it in the Klingon "The body is merely an empty shell.  Dispose of it as you feel appropriate." approach.  I know not everybody thinks that way, and I have no criticism of that.  This is just how I see it.

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My mom was cremated and her remains are in a cemetery in an above ground entombment niche, with name and dates. A lot of posters seem to suggest they have limited options with a cremated decedent. Don't all cemeteries have these options?

M.

 

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On February 23, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Maureen said:

My mom was cremated and her remains are in a cemetery in an above ground entombment niche, with name and dates. A lot of posters seem to suggest they have limited options with a cremated decedent. Don't all cemeteries have these options?

M.

 

Some countries have different laws. I haven't looked into the laws in my country but a friend told that you can only combine 3 people's ashes together in my country. Don't ask me why! You cannot legally scatter ashes here or dispose of ashes anywhere but a cemetery. In Britain. I think you can scatter ashes. My family, not me, are planning illegal ash disposals on private land. I am going to obey the law but I am boring!

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This is the official word on it: 

 17.2.2    
Cremation

The Church does not normally encourage cremation. The family of the deceased must decide whether the body should be cremated, taking into account any laws governing burial or cremation. In some countries, the law requires cremation.

Where possible, the body of a deceased member who has been endowed should be dressed in temple clothing when it is cremated (see 3.4.9). A funeral service may be held (see Handbook 2, 18.6).

 

Seems like a pretty liberal policy to me. Interesting that there seems to be no issue with the burning of the garment or temple clothing.

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I have always found it curious that you can use old temple garments for rags once you have destroyed the symbolic marks. Why would anyone do that? And why would the temple guides make a special point of telling us so?

Then it occurred to me that up until maybe two generations ago, there were people called "ragpickers" who made their living collecting scrap rags for recycling. Who knows, maybe ragpicking still exists as an occupation in some places. The point is, I suspect that rags actually used to be more valuable than they are now. As a child, I remember learning at several different times about the dangers of oily rags spontaneously combusting. Today I think, "Who in their right mind would keep a pile of oily rags lying around?" But if the rags were worth, say, $5 or $10 apiece in 2016 prices, that would make a lot more sense to keep them around to reuse them, if possible, or perhaps even try soaking them in gasoline or detergent and seeing if you could reuse them.

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On 2/21/2016 at 3:13 PM, Ironhold said:

Given the way my life's been going, when I do finally die I doubt that there will be enough left of me to bury. 

Ironhold

You remind me of my younger brother.  I didn't get to see him at all.  And then he was just sent out for creamation pursuant to my father and his wife's wishes.

Then again, for viewing, the problem was there wasn't much left of him.  He had sat in his house for about a week before anyone notice he was beyond the veil.

dc

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Somebody said they don't want to be embalmed.  I can't find it but they are in Utah.

In Utah you are not required to be embalmed.  I think you are in California thanks to the embalmers lobby.

Study up on embalming a bit.  It is really just a waste of money.  The body will deteriorate anyway.

dc

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2 hours ago, David13 said:

Ironhold

You remind me of my younger brother.  I didn't get to see him at all.  And then he was just sent out for creamation pursuant to my father and his wife's wishes.

Then again, for viewing, the problem was there wasn't much left of him.  He had sat in his house for about a week before anyone notice he was beyond the veil.

dc

Back on Tuesday, the weather report was calling for a massive storm. It was supposed to hit the area before 4 AM, at which point things would go all pear-shaped. I figured that if I left for my newspaper route at 11:45 AM, I'd be done by 3:30 and so I would most likely miss the bulk of it. 

Well, I was right: I got on the road by 11:45 AM, and I was done by 3:30. 

Too bad the forecast was wrong and the rain started at 2. 

By 2:30, the wind was gusting so hard that it was actually raining sideways. That's right: the rain was moving horizontally due to the force of the wind. The car I drive is an older model where the windows are cranked by hand, and due to a gremlin I have to step out of the car to roll the windows up or down; I have to keep one hand on the glass and the other on the crank to make sure that nothing slips off the mechanism. As such, I had to have both front windows open the entire time. 

So there I am, on the top of a hill, with absolute bupkis to protect me from the rain... which is pushing so hard and fast that it's stinging me in the face. You see, it's a residential zone up there, but the road is wide enough to be a main road; this means that the houses on the one side cannot shield me, and there's nothing but a drop-off on the other side. And even though it's at the top of a hill and so should naturally drain on its own, the road was actually designed and laid so poorly that it's not; rather, it's flooding. 

Fortunately, this place is a house that's for sale. This means that I can pull into the driveway, thereby putting the nose of the car into the rain. With the rain beating against the windshield instead of my face, I can finally collect myself... only to feel water dropping onto my head. Seems that the rain was coming at me so hard that the ceiling of the car got soaked, and so the water is now dripping all over. Fortunately, I chose a vinyl material when I reupholstered, and so a paper towel is enough to resolve it. But the road is a dead end since that development is still under construction, so if I want to get back home I have to brave that road again. 

That wasn't my first time driving in such hard rain, and so I knew what to do. A less experienced driver, however, would likely have been pulled from the crumpled remains of their vehicle when it was recovered from the bottom of the hill. I actually tried to warn another courier I saw about the dangerous conditions, but they misinterpreted my signal to mean that all was clear. Fortunately, it would appear that they made it out as well. 

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15 hours ago, David13 said:

Somebody said they don't want to be embalmed.  I can't find it but they are in Utah.

In Utah you are not required to be embalmed.  I think you are in California thanks to the embalmers lobby.

Study up on embalming a bit.  It is really just a waste of money.  The body will deteriorate anyway.

dc

California doesn't require embalming. My Aunt was buried last summer there in Calif. without being embalmed. There are some laws that may require embalming if the body is being transported over State lines, but even that can be circumvented by the use of special casket/vaults the body is shipped in (I think it needs to be refrigerated), but I'm not positive what the requirements are. If no embalming is chosen, I believe there are limits to Viewings and the amount of time between the death and burial.  In other words, you wouldn't want to wait a long time between death and burial if the body isn't embalmed.

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Guest LiterateParakeet
15 hours ago, David13 said:

Somebody said they don't want to be embalmed.  I can't find it but they are in Utah.

In Utah you are not required to be embalmed.  I think you are in California thanks to the embalmers lobby.

Study up on embalming a bit.  It is really just a waste of money.  The body will deteriorate anyway.

dc

I agree.  I don't want to be embalmed either.  

After my mother in law was embalmed ($$$) the mortuary said, "Oh and by the way, she'll need a larger casket ($$$$$$) and that will mean a larger plot ($$$$$$$$$).  She had no life insurance, and so we (her family) could not afford all the extra expenses, so a couple of her children made the decision to have her cremated and buried on the plot she paid for before she died.   My beef with the mortuary was that they could have mentioned the extra large coffin BEFORE they embalmed her.  Sigh... 

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Just spoke to my Mother-in-law tonight about this. She says she was pretty upset at her own mother's funeral here not too long ago. She said, "my mother was a hard working woman. In the trenches with worn hands and worn finger tips. I showed up to see my mother in the casket with fake press-on 2" bright red nails looking like a clown. She never looked like that a day in her life".

She then followed up with, "I don't want a open casket so they can't turn me into a clown".

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