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Many LDS are familiar with Christian Praise and Worship music.  At concerts, and in many churches, it is common to see people singing to God, with eyes closed and hands upraised.  There is a sense of communion with God, and the participant engages in adoration, praise--worship.  We expect to continue this type of expression throughout eternity.

My question: Does the LDS teaching of exaltation suggest that at some point, rather than extended worship to God, the exalted one will be receiving worship from his creation?  If so, will his relationship with God become more that of colleagues, rather than that of Father God and created soul?

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55 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

If so, will his relationship with God become more that of colleagues, rather than that of Father God and created soul?

No matter what else happens, God will always be our Father and God, never our peer / colleague.  We will always worship him.

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PC - 
Similar to what Zil shared, here is quote off lds.org: Becoming Like God
" Latter-day Saints believe that God’s children will always worship Him. Our progression will never change His identity as our Father and our God. Indeed, our exalted, eternal relationship with Him will be part of the “fulness of joy” He desires for us."

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The simple answer is that we have no idea. We know we'll always worship God and that He will always be our Father. But that doesn't exclude the potential of a colleague relationship as well. But we really have no idea.

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Again, this is looking well beyond the mark. The Bible teaches us that we will be joint-heirs with Christ in inheriting all that the Father hath. We wish to progress eternally, even as our Father does. The exact nature of this eternal progression is not known to us in this state.

Logically, it is difficult to believe that God is "progressing" the way we think of ourselves as progressing, gaining new knowledge and power. It leads to the conundrum that, one day, God may discover a new, more efficient way to save his children -- a new plan of salvation, as it were. But this means that we cannot have absolute confidence in God, because perhaps he does not have all saving knowledge. This is antithetical to building faith in God; therefore, I reject it. So whatever "eternal progression" means, I must assume that it does not involve God learning cool new facts he didn't know before, or gaining useful new abilities that he did not already possess. His eternal progression must be based on what he himself called his work and his glory: To bring about our immortality and eternal life.

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  1. Piggybacking on what Vort shared...
  2. From lds.org: link: DOCTRINES OF THE GOSPEL TEACHER MANUAL : CHAPTER 3: GOD THE ETERNAL FATHER
  3. "1. Does God progress in attributes and characteristics? (No. He is perfect in these things. See Matthew 5:48, Alma 7:20)

    2. Does God progress in knowledge, light, and truth? (No. He has a fulness of knowledge, light, and truth. See D&C 66:12, 2 Nephi 2:24)
    3. Does God progress in power or in his ability to accomplish his work? (No. He has all power, though he will not violate eternal law nor the agency of man. See Alma 26:35, Luke 1:37, 1 Nephi 7:12, Mosiah 4:9)
    Yet God does progress."

  4. Speaking on the progression of Heavenly Father, Joseph Fielding Smith (link: Doctrines of Salvation) gave his opinion

  5. "PROGRESSION BY INCREASING HIS CREATIONS. The Book of Moses informs us that the great work of the Father is in creating worlds and peopling them, and "there is no end to my works, neither to my words," he says, "For behold, this is my work and my glory-to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man,"7.22 and in this is his progression."

Edited by NeedleinA

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This is an area that involves speculation--along with doctrinal/scriptural guidance. So, please know that I'm not expecting definitive declarations. As I consider this matter more, I wonder if fine-tuning the idea of "colleague relationship" is helpful. Perhaps what is envisioned is akin to a new father consulting his own father. The father/son dynamic is still there, but now the son in authority over his newborn, and he goes to his own father for wisdom, rather than marching orders, or "law."

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1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

 Perhaps what is envisioned is akin to a new father consulting his own father. The father/son dynamic is still there, but now the son in authority over his newborn, and he goes to his own father for wisdom, rather than marching orders, or "law."

Definitely this.

Speaking personally, my respect and admiration for my mom increased exponentially the minute I became a mom myself.

 

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On 2/22/2016 at 2:29 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I wonder if fine-tuning the idea of "colleague relationship" is helpful. Perhaps what is envisioned is akin to a new father consulting his own father. The father/son dynamic is still there, but now the son in authority over his newborn, and he goes to his own father for wisdom, rather than marching orders, or "law."

I tend to think that the nature of "commandments" is different for an exalted being.  Not that it is not required.  But if you're the type of person who has become exalted, your motivation is never "because I have to".  We do it because, by our very nature, we adhere to the universal sense of order and right.  We obey because of love of God rather than fear of punishment or even hope of reward.  We do all things in Eternal peace.

We also acknowledge that a grandfather stops having children at some point.  I don't believe our Father ever will -- as far as the understanding of time in our mortal perspective.

In that light, the relationship dynamic is quite different than what we're used to in mortality.  The very concept of worship becomes something different than what we're used to here.  Think about it, what does "worship" mean?  

To me it means simply that we have love and devotion to a deity.  Well, that condition will certainly continue.  But if your definition of "worship" includes liturgy and ordinances, I don't see how that would continue.  The entire reason we have physical ordinances is because we are mortal beings who have difficulty adhering entirely to spiritual things.  That simply won't be the case in eternity.

Edited by Guest

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On 2/22/2016 at 1:29 PM, prisonchaplain said:

This is an area that involves speculation--along with doctrinal/scriptural guidance. So, please know that I'm not expecting definitive declarations. As I consider this matter more, I wonder if fine-tuning the idea of "colleague relationship" is helpful. Perhaps what is envisioned is akin to a new father consulting his own father. The father/son dynamic is still there, but now the son in authority over his newborn, and he goes to his own father for wisdom, rather than marching orders, or "law."

The problem, of course, with this idea, is that as "gods" we will have all knowledge, power, etc., Just as God does, and so why would we "consult" with anyone on anything? Omniscient beings have no need to seek advise.

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5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

To me it means simply that we have love and devotion to a deity.  Well, that condition will certainly continue.  But if your definition of "worship" includes liturgy and ordinances, I don't see how that would continue.  The entire reason we have physical ordinances is because we are mortal beings who have difficulty adhering entirely to spiritual things.  That simply won't be the case in eternity.

What I am wondering will dissipate is not so much liturgy as adoration--the kind of raw, emotive recognition that the ALMIGHTY, ALL-KNOWING Creator-God loves ME, a mere speck is his infinite universe--and so I bow down, fall down, and declare:  holy, holy, holy, glory, hallelujah! I might weep, cry, laugh...lift my hands, etc.

This type of worship is common throughout the world. Will there be such in that timeless future amongst the exalted ones?

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28 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

What I am wondering will dissipate is not so much liturgy as adoration--the kind of raw, emotive recognition that the ALMIGHTY, ALL-KNOWING Creator-God loves ME, a mere speck is his infinite universe--and so I bow down, fall down, and declare:  holy, holy, holy, glory, hallelujah! I might weep, cry, laugh...lift my hands, etc.

This type of worship is common throughout the world. Will there be such in that timeless future amongst the exalted ones?

A young child revere's their parents differently than an adult child. We are wee-baby-ant-children now. It seems to stand to reason that when we are adults, eternally speaking, that our reverence would be expressed in a different manner. But who knows.

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to the OP

good question.

our relationship to God won't ever change in that aspect. Will at some point an exalted being recieive such worship? It's not said in the scriptures. But such a thing would seem to be logical if one assumes that one can progress to the point to being exactly like God.
Does receiving such worship change one's relationship to God? I don't think it would - Does how many followers who worship Christ change his relationship to his Father? I don't see anything on if, who, and how many worship Christ would change his position or relationship with the Father.

In all things regarding perfection, Christ is the example to look to... altho granted between different cultures can add different biases and filters that can affect how one sees him and intrepret what they see.

perhaps the closest i can see in earthly earthly is both how authority is handled in the church as well as the family unit.

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1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

What I am wondering will dissipate is not so much liturgy as adoration--the kind of raw, emotive recognition that the ALMIGHTY, ALL-KNOWING Creator-God loves ME, a mere speck is his infinite universe--and so I bow down, fall down, and declare:  holy, holy, holy, glory, hallelujah! I might weep, cry, laugh...lift my hands, etc.

Perhaps a more apt perspective would be the fear of kings.  There are greater kings and lesser kings in both history and myth.  The lesser kings who rule a small kingdom will certainly still cower in fear of a king who rules over a greater kingdom.

We use the sun, moon, and stars to symbolize the difference between kingdoms.  As great as the sun is above the moon, so too will the Father be above the sun.  It will always be so.

I was telling a neighbor a while back that I'm getting to the period in my life that I'm beginning to feel my age.  He said,"I'll let you know when you've caught up to me."

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

We use the sun, moon, and stars to symbolize the difference between kingdoms.  As great as the sun is above the moon, so too will the Father be above the sun.  It will always be so.

 

Do others agree with this? I've always thought that once a soul is exalted s/he becomes much closer to the Heavenly Father. 

Edited by prisonchaplain
add ? mark

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It isn't about a physical closeness that I'm referring to.  I'm saying that His state of being will always be greater just like my neighbor will always be older than I.  The conditions we live in may be similar.  But He Himself will always be greater.

Edited by Guest

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3 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

What I am wondering will dissipate is not so much liturgy as adoration--the kind of raw, emotive recognition that the ALMIGHTY, ALL-KNOWING Creator-God loves ME, a mere speck is his infinite universe--and so I bow down, fall down, and declare:  holy, holy, holy, glory, hallelujah! I might weep, cry, laugh...lift my hands, etc.

This type of worship is common throughout the world. Will there be such in that timeless future amongst the exalted ones?

One thing that we learn from scriptures is that G-d lives according to different standards that do we mortals.  I am inclined to think that as we become better acquainted with G-d, his attributes and standards as we experience eternity, that we will also view things more as G-d does and according to his standards.  That is our behavior will more and more  a mirror of his behavior.  Thus I see us worshiping more in the manner in which G-d worships.  That he will respond to our love for him and that we will likewise learn to respond to his love as he does to ours.  I am not sure he will respond to our love with raw emotive recognition of an exalted ALMIGHTY, ALL-KNOWING being like himself.  Thus I see our worship, like everything else we do to become expressions of joy and adoration of the same things in the same light that he adores and enjoys.

 

Some are concerned that if we become a being like G-d that he will be diminished for others greatness and intelligence.   Mankind is starting to learn that superior intelligence (as well as power and other such grand things) is not best suited to have as origin one single super source.  We are starting to understand that cooperation and team work is actually better than the single super entity.  One way to understand this concept is through the concept of love and liberty.  It is best when it is understood that such things need to be distributed.  Thus there is not much benefit for one individual to experience love and liberty - this is such an important concept that many say there is no actual or real liberty for an individual unless all are free and liberated to experience liberty.  Same with love.  That is there is more love and liberty to be experience, even by the individual when all are able to experience and express love and liberty.  Thus the experience of love and liberty for G-d is actually made greater by our experiencing and expressing love and liberty in a manner that we think of as "equal" to the divine experience - thus we become one.

 

This is similar to the marriage experience - the greater the love of each the greater the love both as the two become one.  I am convinced that it is the purpose of G-d to lift mankind and that as we understand - that we will in the same way "lift" G-d and that in becoming one we will be equal in his eyes.  And when we are able to see through his eyes we will see things and so appreciate things as he does.

Edited by Traveler

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It IS hard to speculate about this. What I do know is how Jesus referenced his Father during his mission here and then after his resurrection.  I believe this would be the best example of a relationship between Gods who are at once individual, and "one" of purpose and will.  Jesus definitely has an adoring worshipful and reverent attitude towards his Father.  After his resurrection, during his visit to other sheep on the Americas, this event occurred;

 

15 And when he had said these words, he himself also knelt upon the earth; and behold he prayed unto the Father, and the things which he prayed cannot be written, and the multitude did bear record who heard him.

16 And after this manner do they bear record: The eye hath never seen, neither hath the ear heard, before, so great and marvelous things as we saw and heard Jesus speak unto the Father;

17 And no tongue can speak, neither can there be written by any man, neither can the hearts of men conceive so great and marvelous things as we both saw and heard Jesus speak; and no one can conceive of the joy which filled our souls at the time we heard him pray for us unto the Father.

18 And it came to pass that when Jesus had made an end of praying unto the Father, he arose; but so great was the joy of the multitude that they were overcome.

 

I am not much of a scriptorian, so please correct me, but is this not an exalted being who stands at the right hand of God kneeling, praying and adoring his Father.  Other scriptures in the same timeframe show Jesus expressing gratitude to his Father.  Seems like some of the answer to the question is there in the scriptures.

Fun topic to think about. Thank you

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6 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Do others agree with this? I've always thought that once a soul is exalted s/he becomes much closer to the Heavenly Father. 

 

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

It isn't about a physical closeness that I'm referring to.  I'm saying that His state of being will always be greater just like my neighbor will always be older than I.  The conditions we live in may be similar.  But He Himself will always be greater.

I don't think age is a good analogy.

If God is perfect and exalted beings are perfect then the difference is glory. If glory comes from creations, including (and most importantly) spiritual posterity, then mathematically once one is exalted and creating things, presuming that creation ratios in time (if time is even a thing -- which I believe it is...but...) are approximately equivalent, then the later exalted's glory would increase, percentage-wise, relative to the previously exalted, but never catch it, of course.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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10 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I don't think age is a good analogy.

If God is perfect and exalted beings are perfect then the difference is glory. If glory comes from creations, including (and most importantly) spiritual posterity, then mathematically once one is exalted and creating things, presuming that creation ratios in time (if time is even a thing -- which I believe it is...but...) are approximately equivalent, then the later exalted's glory would increase, percentage-wise, relative to the previously exalted, but never catch it, of course.

You disagreed, then made my point for me.  <shakes head in confusion>.

Edited by Guest

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5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You disagreed, then made my point for me.  <shakes head in confusion>.

Actually, you're correct that my proposed "disagreement" was fallacious. I'll write it off as being tired at the time. Age would, indeed, work the same way. The older one gets, the closer he/she gets to his parent's age. So I take it back. I do agree with the age thing. My apologies.

But literally the age thing isn't the thing still, which perhaps is what I was getting after. The idea is that God's glory is from His creations. And he will always have more creations than us. And we will always be part of His creations adding that glory to Him.

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