Death by Suicide -- How to Respond

[Guest MormonGator]

30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I was a functional depressive 

I was too, but I didn't realize it until I was in my mid twenties. Like many with depression I just thought life was miserable for everyone. Than I began to see that "Wait, not everyone thinks that life is horrible. Not everyone is full of angst." Joining the church helped a great deal too, that's for sure.  That changed my perspective greatly. 

[kapikui]

29 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I was too, but I didn't realize it until I was in my mid twenties. Like many with depression I just thought life was miserable for everyone. Than I began to see that "Wait, not everyone thinks that life is horrible. Not everyone is full of angst." Joining the church helped a great deal too, that's for sure.  That changed my perspective greatly. 

I know what you mean.  I was in my 30's before I found out that occasional thoughts of suicide weren't normal. 

 

[Guest]

I was married with kids and I fell hard.  I was ready to jump off a bridge.  My wife finally called the police and had me in the hospital.  It wasn't until they made me watch a video of others with depression that I heard something that changed my paradigm.

One recovering patient said,"To call it depression simply doesn't do it justice.  A depression is a negative speed bump.  It's a little lower than normal.  But this is so much more than that.  You're not depressed.  You're INSANE!"

This may sound to some like harsh or insensitive language.  But when I heard those words, I simply knew it was true and that I really was insane during those bouts of depression.  It was this language that was required to let me know that what I experienced on a regular basis was NOT NORMAL (like the front falling off an oil tanker).  That's when I started changing the way I thought about it and therefore, how I reacted to it.

I guess I'm luckier than others in that I realized that medication was not going to work with me.  And, with the aid of God and the most wonderful wife in the world, I learned to cope with it.  Now, it is very much like the end of "A Beautiful Mind" where he still saw his hallucinations and even may have acknowledged them.  But they didn't do anything to him.  I still feel some things.  But I've learned to recognize when it is real and when it is "the depression" and to just "put it on the shelf" until I can get myself together.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Guest

[prisonchaplain]

I'm choosing to be vague on purpose. However, someone close to be did die by suicide. This person had made a very recent religious conversion--which really compounded my confusion. So, I prayed, "LORD, heaven or hell?" After a few weeks I received an answer:  Trust me. Relieved, I thought to myself that this soul I cared about was, indeed, in a heavenly reward. The LORD spoke to me again: No, I did not promise you this soul was in heaven. I said you are to trust me. Despondent, I figured that, sad as it was, this soul was now in hell. The LORD spoke to me, yet again, and said: I did not tell you this soul was in hell. I said you are to trust me. So, I did. I do. It may not resolve my curiosity, but learning to trust God with life itself--to realize he loves me and mine more than I do, is very freeing. Now, I choose life, and I seek to share life with all who care to receive my influence.

Edited March 1, 2016 by prisonchaplain

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

5 hours ago, unixknight said:

I've never known anyone who killed themselves, but I have personally gone through Clinical Depression and at my lowest point I had a loaded .45 in my mouth. 

I'd like to think that mental health factors would be taken into consideration on the Day of Judgement, because I know from personal experience just how distorted one's perceptions and reasoning can become.  You don't MEAN to disobey God, it just really does seem like the best option at the time.

@unixknight and @kapikui I'm so sorry you went through too.

I felt the same way.  I didn't mean to disobey God, I just felt that He would understand better than anyone why I had done it.  

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

 I didn't mean to disobey God, I just felt that He would understand better than anyone why I had done it.  

You know both of you make a great point I missed. You do feel like you are disobeying God, and you don't want too-you just want the pain to stop. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

21 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

One recovering patient said,"To call it depression simply doesn't do it justice.  A depression is a negative speed bump.  It's a little lower than normal.  But this is so much more than that.  You're not depressed.  You're INSANE!"

This may sound to some like harsh or insensitive language.  But when I heard those words, I simply knew it was true and that I really was insane during those bouts of depression. 

 

Carb, I love this!  It didn't seem harsh to me at all, because looking back I know I was out of my mind when I was suicidal too.  For example, I had a plan, and I will never forget the day I stood in my bedroom and thought, "I could do it today."  Around that same time, I thought, "This is bad.  I should go to the hospital.  No I can't...it would be hard for the kids to have their mom in the hospital...the mental hospital no less...so close to Christmas."  And having me commit suicide instead would have been better???  Crazy, irrational thinking.

Here's another one...a friend of mine shared a time he had been suicidal.  He sat down with a beer and some Valium (he had stolen from a family member).  Then he thought, "I can't drink beer, that's against the Word of Wisdom."  So he didn't drink the beer, but he did take the pills.  

Since then I've known others who have been suicidal and helped talk a few friends through it. 

[NeuroTypical]

PC, that is a powerful story.  Do you mind if I save it away into my compilation of the best things people say, to be cut and pasted in other discussions at other times?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

12 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You know both of you make a great point I missed. You do feel like you are disobeying God, and you don't want too-you just want the pain to stop. 

Yes!  I meant to share this when I commented on Carb's post, but I forgot...

When I was in my dark days that led to my suicidal ideation, I actually resented it when people called me "depressed".  I tried to explain to them I was not depressed i.e. feeling sad or blue, I was in PAIN, deep emotional pain.  There is a difference.  I have felt depression, and it is awful, but what led me to suicidal ideation was much deeper.

It is odd to me that in English we have several words for physical pain...stabbing, sharp, dull, throbbing etc, etc.  But all emotional pain just gets labeled "depression" and I think that is vastly incorrect.   I refused medication (it was offered by my doctor), because I knew that my pain was not caused by a chemical imbalance.  A combination of things helped me...God, counseling, and family.  Those three are still helping me today.  No, I haven't been suicidal for a couple years now, but I believe that is in large part because I am dealing with my pain rather than trying to ignore it.  

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Here's another one...a friend of mine shared a time he had been suicidal.  He sat down with a beer and some Valium (he had stolen from a family member).  Then he thought, "I can't drink beer, that's against the Word of Wisdom."  So he didn't drink the beer, but he did take the pills.  

I had very similar thoughts.  It just goes to show how irrational the thought processes are.

[Guest]

PC,

I think I know to whom you are referring.  And I'm very sorry for your loss.  And I'm very moved by your conversation with the Lord in that regard.  Yes, that sounds about right.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

PC,

 And I'm very sorry for your loss.  And I'm very moved by your conversation with the Lord in that regard. 

Yes, I, too, am very sorry for your loss, PC. 

[NightSG]

19 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I had very similar thoughts.  It just goes to show how irrational the thought processes are.

I don't know that that bit of irrationality is really limited to suicidally depressed LDS.  A nonmember friend once told me about a LDS guy she'd been in a sexually active relationship with until he started writing to her from jail; seems he'd been stealing from his company among other things.  That's also when she found out he was married.

He had no problem cheating on his wife and stealing from his employer, but in his letters he complained about how miserable he'd been with a cold until they could find him some cough syrup with no alcohol in it so he wouldn't be breaking the WoW.  I know plenty of others who have done the same and worse, yet brag about having never tasted coffee or alcohol in their lives as if that's going to make up for anything.  (Remember, after all, the only promised rewards for following the WoW are Earthly, with nothing offered beyond this life.)

[Vort]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

I just learned now how to spell it too. So then I googled gypped to double check it. Article popped up to inform me it is a racist term. Boy, I can't win. 

Because it is based on the word "Gypsy", which has been deemed politically incorrect -- those people are now to be called "Romani" or some such. And it's a negative thing to boot. Heaven forbid we be negative at all.

[prisonchaplain]

47 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

PC, that is a powerful story.  Do you mind if I save it away into my compilation of the best things people say, to be cut and pasted in other discussions at other times?

Thank you, NT. Please use this--or anything I post. As far as I'm concerned, my material on lds.net is public domain.  :-)

[Vort]

12 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

As far as I'm concerned, my material on lds.net is public domain.  :-)

I expect that's true as far as the law is concerned, too.

[NeuroTypical]

Well, yeah, but it's still nice to ask permission.  Conveys respect and stuff.  (At least, I hope it did.)

[mordorbund]

19 hours ago, Vort said:

Because it is based on the word "Gypsy", which has been deemed politically incorrect -- those people are now to be called "Romani" or some such. And it's a negative thing to boot. Heaven forbid we be negative at all.

What about the non-Romani gypsies? No respect man, they sure got rommed.