The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: My reading comprehension isn't the best, I'm looking for the part where I said I didn't believe in the power of the holy spirit. Retract your false accusation please. Not until you prove it false please. Man...all the "pleases". So civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 9 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: My reading comprehension isn't the best, I'm looking for the part where I said I didn't believe in the power of the holy spirit. Retract your false accusation please. Not until you prove it false...please. Man...all these "pleases". So civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 26 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Hmm. How do you expect me to read the following exchange?: Omega: Who is the most qualified to address these issues? Lehi: The Holy Ghost is. Omega: Are you pulling my leg? @omegamaster75, Rather than complaining the you didn't literally say you don't believe the Holy Ghost is qualified to deal with "these issues", and carrying on a "did not", "did so" argument, why don't you explain how you intended "Are you pulling my leg?" to be understood. Because any normal person fluent in American English is going to assume you are deliberately implying that what LeSellers wrote is foolish, that it must be a joke - because that's what "Are you pulling my leg" means - "Surely you must be joking", "You don't seriously believe that, do you?" - those three sentences are synonymous. NeedleinA and LeSellers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 16 minutes ago, Vort said: It was implicit in your question about whether your leg was being pulled. If you do not believe any part of his answer was factually incorrect, why did you feel the need to ask whether he was pulling your leg? It was not implicit in my response, I am was asking if that was a serious answer to a serious question. I think now that it was. I disagree with LeSellers answer. I think that the holy spirit should prompt the Bishops to help individuals like in the hypothetical that I proposed get professional counseling. Situations like that fall outside of their stewardship unless there is sin involved. Even if they are trained counselors they may have a conflict of interest. Being set apart as bishop does not imbeau or infuse them with some wisdom that they did not possess before. Other than the influence of the Holy Spirit for the area that they have stewardship over. Maybe I'm a doubting Thomas (I don't think that I am) but I sincerely do not think that a Lay "untrained" (in quotation marks because there must be some bishop training school of which I am unaware to which all bishops go and suddenly know how to deal with life's most difficult problems). Bishop will have the answers to situations like that in general. Disclaimer: While some will choose to jump on me for my seemingly lack of faith (which I can assure you is not true) or accuse me falsely of having an axe to grind with my leaders. Be sure that I have nothing but respect for the office of Bishop and the difficulties that he deals with on a daily basis. The guidance of the holy spirit is his only light through those troubled waters many times. We are on the outside looking in. I would be curious to hear from current of ex Bishops on this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 33 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Not until you prove it false please. Man...all the "pleases". So civil. I don't have to prove anything you are the one making the accusation. So prove it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 33 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Not until you prove it false please. Man...all the "pleases". So civil. I don't have to prove anything you are the one making the accusation. So prove it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 33 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Not until you prove it false please. Man...all the "pleases". So civil. I don't have to prove anything you are the one making the accusation. So prove it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 33 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Not until you prove it false please. Man...all the "pleases". So civil. I don't have to prove anything you are the one making the accusation. So prove it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 31 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: I don't have to prove anything you are the one making the accusation. So prove it Well. If I accept that you do, indeed, believe in the power of the Holy Ghost to qualify someone, then I'd have to accept as well that you are recanting your premise that bishops are not qualified. Are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said: I should clarify just in case any are misreading me. I am not against the seeking professional help in any way. What I am against is the idea that a bishop cannot be helpful because he is not "trained". That is, in my opinion, a garbage idea designed to tear down the church, and those advocating for such ideas are walking hand-in-hand with the current trendy efforts to do so, like the latest from Ordain Women and their ilk. I am also of the opinion that whereas professional help can be invaluable, it can also be highly dangerous. Pornography and masturbation are a prime examples. The current "professional" view out there, I believe, is that there's nothing really harmful with either, and that they can actually be healthy. If I came across as misunderstand you I apologise... I simply used your post as a jumping off point for my thought and opinion. I simply do not agree with anyone (not saying you do TFP) who feels that the bishop is the "only" answer all the time, nor to do I agree with those that say "only" an PHD trained professional all the time. I simply believe that there is a time and a place for both and that is what God intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 32 minutes ago, estradling75 said: If I came across as misunderstand you I apologise... I simply used your post as a jumping off point for my thought and opinion. I simply do not agree with anyone (not saying you do TFP) who feels that the bishop is the "only" answer all the time, nor to do I agree with those that say "only" an PHD trained professional all the time. I simply believe that there is a time and a place for both and that is what God intended. I agree with both of you on this. There is a place for both certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, estradling75 said: If I came across as misunderstand you I apologise... I simply used your post as a jumping off point for my thought and opinion. Same. Just using yours as a jumping off. We cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said: So what is more shocking that Omega disagrees with Lehi, or that Lehi appears to disagree with Elder Holland? I never said anything about going outside the ecclesiastical realm. I go to doctors, I would go to a counselor if I felt I needed to. But the strong implication that bishops can't help because they're not "trained" is not justified in the least. And, my answer is still correct: the Holy Ghost is the best qualified to "treat" any condition; and the bishop is the one with the authority to call on Him. Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjacket Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 7 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said: I think that the holy spirit should prompt the Bishops to help individuals like in the hypothetical that I proposed get professional counseling. Situations like that fall outside of their stewardship unless there is sin involved. Even if they are trained counselors they may have a conflict of interest. Being set apart as bishop does not imbeau or infuse them with some wisdom that they did not possess before. I honestly don't know where this idea came from that the only people who can give us help are "professional counselors". It has got to be one of the stupidest ideas in modern society. A professional counselor may help, but they may not. One doesn't need a PhD and to be trained in pyschology to give very wise advice or to be someone who's advice should be listened to. A Bishop is a watchman on the tower or should be a wise man; part of his job and his calling is to give advice and counsel. We give way, way to much credence and authority to "experts" especially "mental health experts". If I want to get marriage counseling, the person I want to talk to isn't a marriage counselor, I want to talk to someone who has been married to the same person for 20+ years has had the ups and downs of life and I want to get advice from them. They have lived it. We should be very, very selective on just what kind of "expert" advice we are getting. Vort, The Folk Prophet and LeSellers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjacket Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 7 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said: I think that the holy spirit should prompt the Bishops to help individuals like in the hypothetical that I proposed get professional counseling. Situations like that fall outside of their stewardship unless there is sin involved. Even if they are trained counselors they may have a conflict of interest. Being set apart as bishop does not imbeau or infuse them with some wisdom that they did not possess before. I honestly don't know where this idea came from that the only people who can give us help are "professional counselors". It has got to be one of the stupidest ideas in modern society. A professional counselor may help, but they may not. One doesn't need a PhD and to be trained in pyschology to give very wise advice or to be someone who's advice should be listened to. A Bishop is a watchman on the tower or should be a wise man; part of his job and his calling is to give advice and counsel. We give way, way to much credence and authority to "experts" especially "mental health experts". If I want to get marriage counseling, the person I want to talk to isn't a marriage counselor, I want to talk to someone who has been married to the same person for 20+ years has had the ups and downs of life and I want to get advice from them. They have lived it. We should be very, very selective on just what kind of "expert" advice we are getting. LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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