Guest Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 I'd say it's his right to probe if he notices anything (body language and so forth) that would indicate the need. But if nothing seems amiss and the Spirit isn't prompting him, I don't see why he'd be motivated to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, Carborendum said: I'd say it's his right to probe if he notices anything (body language and so forth) that would indicate the need. But if nothing seems amiss and the Spirit isn't prompting him, I don't see why he'd be motivated to do so. I'd assume that goes without saying. Lehi Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 The thing that qualifies a bishop to probe deeper on any question is the Spirit. LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 We believe that bishops are "Called of God by prophecy and by the laying on of hands by those that are in authority" that in addition to listening to the spirit while he does his job is what qualifies him to do his job. However his job is to stand as a judge in Israel in helping people overcome their sins and come unto Christ. He is the spiritual Shepard over his flocks, and he has all the skill and training needed to do exactly that. What he is not is a marriage councilor or a mental health professional, (just like he is not a medical doctor) . While sin an transgression can true effect all those things it would be a mistake to think that the bishop is qualified to handle more then the repentance process. For example if you broke your leg while sinning you would not expect your bishop to be able to treat your broken leg. He would just be able to help with the repentance process of the sin. If you break your marriage or your mind while sinning you should not expect your bishop to be able to treat those either. Yet people expect that, they expect a bishop to be alot of things he is not called to be. I would say that the parent has the more important stewardship, and if they want to keep their kids out of interviews with the bishop or a bishop councilor that is their right. However the parents have no stewardship over determining worthiness for church activities (aka temple baptism for the youth) and they (the bishop) would be well within their stewardship to deny such to kids they can not interview. NeedleinA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 23 minutes ago, estradling75 said: What he is not is a marriage councilor or a mental health professional, (just like he is not a medical doctor) . While sin an transgression can true effect all those things it would be a mistake to think that the bishop is qualified to handle more then the repentance process. Correct. All of the Bishops I know are very clear on this point. They are able to see the difference between the two and readily have LDS Family Services information on tap. Bishops will work in conjunction with LDSFS to help individuals, leaving deeper issues to LDSFS. Both groups have their own focus, but at times those focuses overlap as they work together to help individuals and families out. 16 hours ago, MrShorty said: Some of these parents may choose to ask the Bishop not to discuss porn with their children because they do not want the porn/sex addiction model taught to their children. Should parents be allowed to make this request of the Bishop? Should the Bishop respect these parents' wishes in this regard? MrShorty, I think estradling75 gives a great answer to your question... 23 minutes ago, estradling75 said: I would say that the parent has the more important stewardship, and if they want to keep their kids out of interviews with the bishop or a bishop councilor that is their right. However the parents have no stewardship over determining worthiness for church activities (aka temple baptism for the youth) and they (the bishop) would be well within their stewardship to deny such to kids they can not interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 On 3/4/2016 at 7:18 AM, Carborendum said: Actually I did for many years. And no one ever articulated the reasons to me. It was always, "Those are the instructions we've been given. Here is a little blurb Carb (FWIW), released back in 2010 when the latest of the versions of the HB were available. "That blue volume includes information about counseling with members. LDS authorities worried that if it were widely read, some members "might decide they don't need to go see their bishop," says Michael Otterson, managing director of LDS Public Affairs. "It made much more sense to reserve that volume for leaders." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, estradling75 said: We believe that bishops are "Called of God by prophecy and by the laying on of hands by those that are in authority" that in addition to listening to the spirit while he does his job is what qualifies him to do his job. However his job is to stand as a judge in Israel in helping people overcome their sins and come unto Christ. He is the spiritual Shepard over his flocks, and he has all the skill and training needed to do exactly that. What he is not is a marriage councilor or a mental health professional, (just like he is not a medical doctor) . While sin an transgression can true effect all those things it would be a mistake to think that the bishop is qualified to handle more then the repentance process. For example if you broke your leg while sinning you would not expect your bishop to be able to treat your broken leg. He would just be able to help with the repentance process of the sin. If you break your marriage or your mind while sinning you should not expect your bishop to be able to treat those either. Yet people expect that, they expect a bishop to be alot of things he is not called to be. I would say that the parent has the more important stewardship, and if they want to keep their kids out of interviews with the bishop or a bishop councilor that is their right. However the parents have no stewardship over determining worthiness for church activities (aka temple baptism for the youth) and they (the bishop) would be well within their stewardship to deny such to kids they can not interview. That all being said, when it comes to mental and emotional health, I would trust one called of God by prophecy and the laying on of hands being led by the Spirit over one trained by the philosophies of men any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 48 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: That all being said, when it comes to mental and emotional health, I would trust one called of God by prophecy and the laying on of hands being led by the Spirit over one trained by the philosophies of men any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Let's use an example hypothetical. I was abused sexually in my youth, I never saw anyone about it and kept it a secret. I am now married and am having serious issues with my spouse about intimacy and other problems stemming from that. Who in your opinion is the most qualified to resolve these issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Let's use an example hypothetical. I was abused sexually in my youth, I never saw anyone about it and kept it a secret. I am now married and am having serious issues with my spouse about intimacy and other problems stemming from that. Who in your opinion is the most qualified to resolve these issues? The Holy Ghost is. He knows, not only the physical and emotional trauma you would have undergone, but the healing process you need to undergo. The Bishop has the calling to invoke the powers of heaven. A "counselor" has nothing but the philosophies of men. Lehi NeedleinA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, LeSellers said: The Holy Ghost is. He knows, not only the physical and emotional trauma you would have undergone, but the healing process you need to undergo. The Bishop has the calling to invoke the powers of heaven. A "counselor" has nothing but the philosophies of men. Lehi Is this a serious answer? or are you just pulling my leg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 13 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Is this a serious answer? or are you just pulling my leg? Just because you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean we're pulling your leg because we do. LeSellers and NeedleinA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 15 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Is this a serious answer? or are you just pulling my leg? Which part of what LeSellers wrote is factually incorrect? Please be specific. LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I believe that Christ is the source of ALL healing... That being said I also believe President Kimball when he said that God hears all prayers but it is often through others that he meet our needs. I see no reason why a mental health professional or therapist could not be one of the "others" he talked about... Assuming we are seeking with Christ centered Faith such healing. (just like a bishop or friend or family member or even a total stranger could be). This puts the "other" (whomever they might be) in the position of the one the Lord raised up for that purpose... Irregardless of what other credentials they may or may not have Vort, The Folk Prophet, NeedleinA and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, estradling75 said: I believe that Christ is the source of ALL healing... That being said I also believe President Kimball when he said that God hears all prayers but it is often through others that he meet our needs. I see no reason why a mental health professional or therapist could not be one of the "others" he talked about... Assuming we are seeking with Christ centered Faith such healing. (just like a bishop or friend or family member or even a total stranger could be). This puts the "other" (whomever they might be) in the position of the one the Lord raised up for that purpose... Irregardless of what other credentials they may or may not have I should clarify just in case any are misreading me. I am not against the seeking professional help in any way. What I am against is the idea that a bishop cannot be helpful because he is not "trained". That is, in my opinion, a garbage idea designed to tear down the church, and those advocating for such ideas are walking hand-in-hand with the current trendy efforts to do so, like the latest from Ordain Women and their ilk. I am also of the opinion that whereas professional help can be invaluable, it can also be highly dangerous. Pornography and masturbation are a prime examples. The current "professional" view out there, I believe, is that there's nothing really harmful with either, and that they can actually be healthy. Vort and LeSellers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Let's use an example hypothetical. I was abused sexually in my youth, I never saw anyone about it and kept it a secret. I am now married and am having serious issues with my spouse about intimacy and other problems stemming from that. Who in your opinion is the most qualified to resolve these issues? I'm with you on this one. I could quote several Ensign articles including one by Elder Holland that recommend therapy when it is needed. When I was in my darkest days, my Bishop was only able to help a little...very little. Therapy is what has helped me the most. And I'm pretty sure both my therapists are atheist, but I never asked them because I'm not in therapy to talk about my faith. As far as faith goes, my Bishop suggested that I read the Book of Mormon which made me feel worse.I searched Conference talks...and found no help there either. That was before Elder Holland's Broken Vessel talk which I love. The best church thing I found was Sis. Okazaki's talk, Heal8ng From Sexual Abuse. In the end, I found most of my answers in the New Testament, through Christ. The mental and emotional issues I'm still working through in therapy...if I didn't have that help I would have surely committed suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 32 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Is this a serious answer? or are you just pulling my leg? Wow! Just wow! Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I think what Omega is referring to is the dismissive attitude towards counseling. If you had a broken leg, do you believe the Savior could heal you? Of course, he could, but would he? Or would he expect you to go to the doctor? Mental health is the same. Elder Holland said so in his talk Like a Broken Vessel (I would quote it for you if I could figure out how to do it on my phone. So what is more shocking that Omega disagrees with Lehi, or that Lehi appears to disagree with Elder Holland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 42 minutes ago, Vort said: Which part of what LeSellers wrote is factually incorrect? Please be specific. Show me where I said his answer was factually incorrect? Please be specific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 42 minutes ago, Vort said: Which part of what LeSellers wrote is factually incorrect? Please be specific. Show me where I said his answer was factually incorrect? Please be specific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 46 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Just because you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean we're pulling your leg because we do. When did I say I didn't believe in the power of the holy spirit...please be specific if you're going to put words into my mouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 9 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: Show me where I said his answer was factually incorrect? Please be specific It was implicit in your question about whether your leg was being pulled. If you do not believe any part of his answer was factually incorrect, why did you feel the need to ask whether he was pulling your leg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 46 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Just because you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean we're pulling your leg because we do. When did I say I didn't believe in the power of the holy spirit...please be specific if you're going to put words into my mouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 46 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Just because you don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean we're pulling your leg because we do. When did I say I didn't believe in the power of the holy spirit...please be specific if you're going to put words into my mouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: When did I say I didn't believe in the power of the holy spirit...please be specific if you're going to put words into my mouth Hmm. How do you expect me to read the following exchange?: Omega: Who is the most qualified to address these issues? Lehi: The Holy Ghost is. Omega: Are you pulling my leg? LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Hmm. How do you expect me to read the following exchange?: Omega: Who is the most qualified to address these issues? Lehi: The Holy Ghost is. Omega: Are you pulling my leg? My reading comprehension isn't the best, I'm looking for the part where I said I didn't believe in the power of the holy spirit. Retract your false accusation please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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